Silver Surfer & Thor vs JLA

Originally posted by Acrosurge
Ah! That sheds quite a bit of light on things! So in your opinions here in this particular fight regarding DC characters, are based on high-end showings only, while disregarding all low showings?

Essentially, you have taken away the weaknesses of all the characters involved, am I right?

But back to the GL argument, if Surfer = GL before Annihilation, shouldn't Surfer at the very least be greater than a GL after the powerup?

Originally posted by Acrosurge
Ah! That sheds quite a bit of light on things! So in your opinions here in this particular fight regarding DC characters, are based on high-end showings only, while disregarding all low showings?

Essentially, you have taken away the weaknesses of all the characters involved, am I right?

Originally posted by Acrosurge
But back to the GL argument, if Surfer = GL before Annihilation, shouldn't Surfer at the very least be greater than a GL after the powerup?

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Say what exactly has Surfer done that he couldn't do before?

Once more, I'm not saying that he'll win against the JLA, but if Surfer was equal to a GL pre-powerup (as some claim), then why shouldn't he be more powerful than the same GL after the powerup? Why the denial? You can't claim a lack of feats. I just laid them before you.

Originally posted by Acrosurge
He bested a group of herald-level beings at once, an Annihilation Fleet, then toyed with their leader (who was on par with Surfer before the powerup). He went on to mount an offensive against a non-jobbing-Galactus-level opponent. He was beaten, but was able to last nearly as long as Galactus himself. You cannot argue that he could have accomplished all that before the powerup.

whatever happened to the idea, of putting beta ray bill in?

Originally posted by Juntai
What about the time he was handling many of the elders of the universe at once before his powerup?

Originally posted by Acrosurge
I think we're just going to have to disagree on that, for as powerful as the ring makes Hal and Kyle on the outside, their insides, minds, and emotions are still fundamentally human. Thus, they are subject to (along with feats that may match Surfer's) ludicrously low showings. I think you'll be hard pressed to find a Surfer showing lower than Kyle getting pwned by Deathstroke and Deadshot during Identity Crisis.

And suppose Surfer is at his best: can you give me an argument why he couldn't analyze and manipulate Oan energy as he has done with the Odinpower? Have Hal or Kyle easily manipulated mystical energies the like of Shazam and such?

Again, my most recent argument is not that Surfer can beat the JLA, but that he was the equal or better of a high-end GL before his powerup, and is easily the superior of a single (possibly two) GL now.

Klye can mess with angelic matter when pretty much no one else could. That pretty much supercedes any mystical barriers I can think of. Angels are agents of the presence and extremely powerful. Zuriel lost his angelic strength and was still JLA class.

Originally posted by Acrosurge
He bested a group of herald-level beings at once, an Annihilation Fleet, then toyed with their leader (who was on par with Surfer before the powerup).

Originally posted by Acrosurge
He went on to mount an offensive against a non-jobbing-Galactus-level opponent. He was beaten, but was able to last nearly as long as Galactus himself. You cannot argue that he could have accomplished all that before the powerup.

http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=annihilation1026hv9.jpg

That blast to face barely turned her head.

Originally posted by Acrosurge
What about it? The Elders of the Universe do not compare to Galactus, Tenebrous, and Aegis.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Klye can mess with angelic matter when pretty much no one else could. That pretty much supercedes any mystical barriers I can think of. Angels are agents of the presence and extremely powerful. Zuriel lost his angelic strength and was still JLA class.

And while Surfer may not be on par with the upper cosmics, neither are any regular GLs.

Originally posted by Validus
Stardust, Red Shift and Firelord are dominating the Annihilation Wave right now and they have no power up and none of them are equal to Surfer.

I wouldn't call that an offensive.

http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=annihilation1026hv9.jpg

That blast to face barely turned her head.

surfer is more powerful. he destroyed a planet just to prove a lesson, and he created a black hole in the process.

While I still think the JLA would win I have to say that Norrin is above any singular GL. Even if you put in two of the best I don't think that it would be an east win (if they could wrangle a win). I think with MM and Superman though SS goes down. Just sic GL on Thor and have him work on draining that hammer. Kyle has drained magic before right?

Originally posted by marvelprince
While I still think the JLA would win I have to say that Norrin is above any singular GL. Even if you put in two of the best I don't think that it would be an east win (if they could wrangle a win). I think with MM and Superman though SS goes down. Just sic GL on Thor and have him work on draining that hammer. Kyle has drained magic before right?

Originally posted by bigbran
ya but thats 3 heralds, surfer took out a wave and there leader.

I would like to point out that none of the heralds are being written to potential. All Red Shift has to do is open a portal to a black hole and bye-bye Annihilation Wave. Instead they just fire simple blasts.

Originally posted by Acrosurge
The same Angels can and have been beaten by Superman, which suggests that they have some sort of physical matter to be manipulated. As that is the case, I don't think you can draw a correlation between Kyle's Angel-manipulation and Surfer's manipulation of the Odinpower. It's apples and oranges. Have the GLs manipulated Shazaam's energies?

And while Surfer may not be on par with the upper cosmics, neither are any regular GLs.

Originally posted by Acrosurge
That's what I've been trying to research. Has any non mystical GL ever manipulated mystical forces on Shazam's level?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Superman at the time was not physical thanks very much. he was an energy being.

Originally posted by Acrosurge
That's what I've been trying to research. Has any non mystical GL ever manipulated mystical forces on Shazam's level?

Who said Thor was on Shazam's lvl? NOT

Originally posted by Validus
Each of them have been shown individually wrecking fleets though. The narration said each has enough power to match an army.

I would like to point out that none of the heralds are being written to potential. All Red Shift has to do is open a portal to a black hole and bye-bye Annihilation Wave. Instead they just fire simple blasts.