Originally posted by demigawd
The forum is dominated by Superman fanboys right now - nothing wrong with that. It cycles. In the beginning of the thread, most people supported Superman. In the middle, most supported Magneto, and most of them don't post anymore. Now I guess it's the Supes fanboys time. So just because they "get" it doesn't mean it's correct...it's not.you keep changing your strategy. YOU said that Superman freezes Magneto in some two mile iceberg and throws him into the sun. Now you're saying...what? That he just freezes Magneto and leaves? What's that going to do? Magneto's field automatically repels everything. Are you trying to tell me that Magneto would run out of air before he can get out of an iceberg? All he has to do is fly through it and the field does the rest....what are you talking about?
Why do I think Superman's victory means death for Mags? Aren't YOU the one saying Superman is going to roast Magneto with heat vision hotter than the sun, or toss him into the sun or whatever other weird crap you have him doing? Aside from the fact that none of that will work, more importantly, Superman just wouldn't do any of that.
I already showed that Magneto has the ability to deal with near lightspeed attacks by Northstar. So that point is moot.
You make my own point....invulnerability to NEARLY everything. It just so happens that some of his vulnerabilities coinicide with magneto's greatest strengths. Don't feel bad...I'm not saying Supeman isn't overall more powerful, but styles make fights, and Magneto's style is just generally incompatible with Superman's strengths. That's why he loses.
The last thing Superman wants to do is run into Magneto or attack him at superspeed. Remember....the field repels everything. Superman launch himself into orbit running into the field. And any heat vision will be reflected back at him immediately. Superman will KO himself with that technique.
Superman just won't be able to penetrate the field before his power goes away. That's why (among other reasons) he loses to Magneto.
What do fanboys have to do with anything? Many could say that about you and Mags as well. Hell, we are all a "fanboy" to something, but that has little to do with this fight.
My strategy is NOT changing, just showing you how many ways there are for Supes to win.
Juntai is right, you have gone on defensive, and this debate is won on th e Superman side already. I don't feel it necessary to go on.
I've asked for scans, something that I can easily provide (and have...just check the Superman respect forum) and my points are clear enough that everyone else seems to get them.
Don't want you to feel like a cheap date or anything but at this point...
Put out, or get out.
Originally posted by demigawd And all the strength and speed in the world won't change that.
Speed certainly would.
Let's say we buy the crazy "electron-based" auto-shield that raises even faster than human reflexes (an odd belief by many accounts- for example, if it acts without will then how is it even possible for Magneto to be wounded even if he "lets" himself?). Absent pre-cognition (and even then that would be considered prep... acting before the bell), the fastest any energy/magnetic/electric shield could be raised by Magneto is the speed of light/energy/electrons in atmosphere. Period.
All we need, then, is an opponent that moves faster than light.
Originally posted by leonidas
if he IS encased and hurled off planet, wouldn't supes win by bfr anyway? 😕
Yes, but he wouldn't be hurled off planet because Superman wouldn't be able to touch him.
Originally posted by leonidas
and demi, some scans MAY help your case. the supes guys seem to be winning this debate . . .
Unfortunately, I don't have a scanner. And unlike the large number of Superman respect threads on-line, there aren't any for Magneto where I can just pop in and pull up other scans. I've include storylines and issues, however.
I just don't see how Superman is able to touch Magneto, while Magneto doesn't even have to be on the battlefield to attack Superman. He just has to envision Superman and Superman is affected. So far, that's not a point anybody had addressed or countered.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
What do fanboys have to do with anything? Many could say that about you and Mags as well. Hell, we are all a "fanboy" to something, but that has little to do with this fight.My strategy is NOT changing, just showing you how many ways there are for Supes to win.
Juntai is right, you have gone on defensive, and this debate is won on th e Superman side already. I don't feel it necessary to go on.
I've asked for scans, something that I can easily provide (and have...just check the Superman respect forum) and my points are clear enough that everyone else seems to get them.
Don't want you to feel like a cheap date or anything but at this point...
Put out, or get out.
I haven't gone on the defensive....I've said over and over again that Superman can't touch Magneto, and nobody has come up with a single way to counter that. FTL speed, giant icebergs, heat vision..it's all ineffective and reflected. On the other hand, nobody has come up with a way to prevent Magneto from affecting Superman when all he has to do is mentally envision Superman and affect him. Magneo's powers are psionic that way.
It really comes down to that. The current group on KMC may or may not want to believe it, but that's the way it goes.
Originally posted by Demas
Speed certainly would.Let's say we buy the crazy "electron-based" auto-shield that raises even faster than human reflexes (an odd belief by many accounts- for example, if it acts without will then how is it even possible for Magneto to be wounded even if he "lets" himself?). Absent pre-cognition (and even then that would be considered prep... acting before the bell), the fastest any energy/magnetic/electric shield could be raised by Magneto is the speed of light/energy/electrons in atmosphere. Period.
All we need, then, is an opponent that moves faster than light.
Superman doesn't move FTL within Earth's atmosphere. He maxes out at 90% of the speed of light. Magneto has dealt with someone who moves at 99% the speed of light. That's the bottom line, here.
Furthermore, there are lots of things Magneto can do to Superman with a single thought:
Destroy the electrical impulses in Superman's brain
Short out Superman's nervous system
Control the iron in Superman's body
Remove the protective aura from Superman and just knock him out
Molecularly deconstruct Superman
Create a quantum singularity in Superman's brain that causes Superman to collapse on himself
One thought is all Magneto needs, and Superman just won't be able to get through Magneto's fields in time to deny Magneto that thought, I'm afraid.
An example of Magneto creating a hologram and attacking something LONG DISTANCE, without having any kind of visual contact (so Superman being far away or moving at lightspeed won't mean anything).
Magneto could just create holograms of himself for Superman to fight while he chills somewhere else and drains him to his heart's content.
Originally posted by demigawd Superman doesn't move FTL within Earth's atmosphere.
Only absent bloodlust and with CIS.
Alternatively, you're trying to say that a being capable of moving multitudes the speed-of-light is going to be significantly slowed by atmosphere, which is equally hilarious and lacking in credibility.
So long as Supes is at superluminal speeds, there's actually NOTHING Magneto can do to him since all his abilities are sub-luminal.
Originally posted by demigawd
Furthermore, there are lots of things Magneto can do to Superman with a single thought:Destroy the electrical impulses in Superman's brain
Short out Superman's nervous system
Control the iron in Superman's body
Remove the protective aura from Superman and just knock him out
Molecularly deconstruct Superman
Create a quantum singularity in Superman's brain that causes Superman to collapse on himselfOne thought is all Magneto needs, and Superman just won't be able to get through Magneto's fields in time to deny Magneto that thought, I'm afraid.
Has any villian every defeated Superman like that? No, and he has fought individuals far more powerful than Magneto. You can't just say Magneto can do all of these things when he has never faced someone with Superman's powers and alien physiology. Listing these things doesn't prove anything with out some proof that Magneto could do this other than you word.
As for your scans:
1. Neutralizing one person's power doesn't mean he can do it to everyother opponent or else he would.
2. As for the hologram, there is no evidence that Magneto created it. He could just be using technology. And of course he could affect the ship, it is a big pile of metal.
3. As for moving charles, it easy; HE IS IN A METAL CHAIR! Xavier states that his chair is moving not him. Superman will not be siting in a wheelchair in this fight, so Magneto isn't moving him by thinking about it. And there is no a single shread of proof that Magneto didn't know where Charles was by other (technological?) means. So before you declare that he can keep track of people on the other side of the planet, find actual evidence that can't be logically explained away other than giving him a power that NOBODY else (Marvel included) says he has.
4. Messing with the earth's magnetic field when your mutant power is to control magnetic fields isn't that impressive or usefull in this fight.
5. One nuke and he's fine, but two laser blasts that are hotter than the sun and can stop Darkseid's Omega Beams....not so much
6. Reflecting Gabits' cards is not equal to stoping any of Superman's attacks.
7. As for draining the Phoniex, this is my favorite. Where to begin? First, we see that as he is draing Jean, Logan just misses cutting him. Where is his super-auto shield that is aways up and and reflect any attack? Could it be that he actually has to focus to use his abilities and that by using his focus on draining Jean, he cannot keep his shield up at the same time?
All of these scans failed to prove any of your points. They don't show Magneto tracking Xavier across the planet; they show him moving his chair with no explanation of how he knew where to direct the attack. It is only your opinion that Magneto has this psionic tracking abiltiy and you have to offer more than that before you start handing out new powers. Same deal with the Submarine, there was no proof that magneto created the hologram, just your opinion.
So you still haven't shown that Magneto coudl possibly know where Superman is when he is traveling at the speed of light or that his force field can deflect any attack. Also I beleive that Northstar can theorectically travel at the speed of light, I don't think he actaully does it.
Originally posted by Demas
Only absent bloodlust and with CIS.Alternatively, you're trying to say that a being capable of moving multitudes the speed-of-light is going to be significantly slowed by atmosphere, which is equally hilarious and lacking in credibility.
So long as Supes is at superluminal speeds, there's actually NOTHING Magneto can do to him since all his abilities are sub-luminal.
It's not CIS - Superman specifically stated that he doesn't do it because of the amount of collateral damage those speeds cause. He only goes FTL when he's in space specifically out of concern. Are we now disregarding that for the sake of this fight?
Originally posted by TheKahn
Has any villian every defeated Superman like that?
Coldcast, Manchester Black, Black Rock, Wasp.
No, and he has fought individuals far more powerful than Magneto. You can't just say Magneto can do all of these things when he has never faced someone with Superman's powers and alien physiology.
Neo, Wonderman, She-Hulk, Hulk, Phoenix has even greater powers
Listing these things doesn't prove anything with out some proof that Magneto could do this other than you word.
Did I or did I not post a scan of Magneto sucking the life out of PHOENIX? You know, the same Phoenix who punked the likes of Gladiator (a Superman clone) and Firelord in issues during the same storyarc.
As for your scans:1. Neutralizing one person's power doesn't mean he can do it to everyother opponent or else he would.
That's like saying Superman speedblitzing one opponent before they can think doesn't mean he can do it to every other opponent or else he would. Superman doesn't speedblitz everybody. Why not? For dramatic effect. Ditto with Magneto.
2. As for the hologram, there is no evidence that Magneto created it. He could just be using technology. And of course he could affect the ship, it is a big pile of metal.
Magneto wasn't using tech. He was sitting under a volcano. It's also not the only time he did that. My point as well was that the ship was thousands of miles away...Magneto didn't need a visual sighting. He just had to think, "Leningrad, whereever it is" and it was done.
3. As for moving charles, it easy; HE IS IN A METAL CHAIR! Xavier states that his chair is moving not him. Superman will not be siting in a wheelchair in this fight, so Magneto isn't moving him by thinking about it. And there is no a single shread of proof that Magneto didn't know where Charles was by other (technological?) means. So before you declare that he can keep track of people on the other side of the planet, find actual evidence that can't be logically explained away other than giving him a power that NOBODY else (Marvel included) says he has.
The point that you missed is that Magneto was able to attack Xavier without knowing where Xavier was. It's ridiculous to say that Magneto used technology to pinpoint Xavier. The scan is right there, and Magneto is in the middle of being mentally attacked. Did you SEE Magneto go, "Cursed Xavier, let me go to my GPS while he's attacking me and find out where he is". Don't be ridiculous - he was being attacked, fought back, then snared Xavier on the fly. I've attached the scan before that (note, this was about 10 years before Magneto developed telepathic abilities).
5. One nuke and he's fine, but two laser blasts that are hotter than the sun and can stop Darkseid's Omega Beams....not so much
There's been no upper limit shown to what his fields can take. Superman has nothing on Phoenix and Galactus.
6. Reflecting Gabits' cards is not equal to stoping any of Superman's attacks.
It's not proof of the level, it's proof of the function. It reflects ANYYTHING that comes in contact with it, physical or not. And those cards were enough to put down Gladiator...the closest Marvel equivalent to Superman.
7. As for draining the Phoniex, this is my favorite. Where to begin? First, we see that as he is draing Jean, Logan just misses cutting him. Where is his super-auto shield that is aways up and and reflect any attack? Could it be that he actually has to focus to use his abilities and that by using his focus on draining Jean, he cannot keep his shield up at the same time?
No, he just got cocky and dropped all his defenses. Look at Logan's thought bubbles. Jean was already done before Wolverine got up.
So you still haven't shown that Magneto coudl possibly know where Superman is when he is traveling at the speed of light or that his force field can deflect any attack.
As I explained above...he doesn't need to. He just has to psionically envision Superman and it happens, regardless of where Superman is or how fast he's going. That was how he nailed Northstar.
Also I beleive that Northstar can theorectically travel at the speed of light, I don't think he actaully does it.
Mmm...sounds like Superman to me.
Originally posted by demigawd
It's not CIS - Superman specifically stated that he doesn't do it because of the amount of collateral damage those speeds cause. He only goes FTL when he's in space specifically out of concern. Are we now disregarding that for the sake of this fight?
If Magneto can do even half of what you claim he can do simultaneously, then collateral damage from his speed is the least of the city's worries... but according to you the very premise of the thread is flawed since Magneto would have vaporized the whole city in a blink giving Superman no time to respond in the first place.
And for the record, it is CIS. A man-sized object travelling at c or above would cause collateral damage. But nowhere near enough to hold Superman back as much as he does in the comics.