Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Uh... there is no Excalibur #15. Unless you're referring to the Excalibur comprised of Captain Britain et al.
Hypothetical particles moving at faster than the speed of light would have an imaginary number value for their Lorentz factor, and thus under the assumption that c^2 is a constant, would have to have an imaginary number value for their mass if energy is to be a real number. FTL particles lose velocity as they gain energy i.e. they accelerate as they lose energy. They can't decelerate beyond the speed of light just as STL particles cannot accelerate beyond the speed of light. This all being relatively irrelevant.And yes, we did. But if we do so then you'd pretty much have to eliminate the entire Universal Field Theory extrapolation of Magneto's abilities.
Looked it up again. Wormhole feat was Excalibur Vol 2: #9. My bad. Uncannyxmen.net has verification of that.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Only if Wanda Maximoff facilitates it...
Untrue. Excalibur #10 basically spent the issue discussing how Magneto never really used his full powers until then. Magneto even explained how he was using some new muscles in his mind for the first time. So the wormhole was specifically meant to be under Magneto's own power. They said that once in proximity Magneto is able to use Wanda's powers as his own....but to get within proximity, Magneto had to use the wormhole of his own power.
Originally posted by demigawdI said WTF to "Magneto is a telepath now". You said see Excalibur #15. I said there is no Excalibur #15. You said wormhole feat is Excalibur #09 (which it isn't).
Looked it up again. Wormhole feat was Excalibur Vol 2: #9. My bad. Uncannyxmen.net has verification of that.
Relevance to my initial query: 0%.
Originally posted by demigawdAnd HoM #07 basically retconned that. How long has Wanda Maximoff being playing with the world, and is Magneto even Magneto. This "feat" occured in proximity to her desire to be rescued - girls want their daddies to bail them out when they're in trouble. BTW there's no major discussion of Magneto's abilities in Excalibur #10 - Callisto fights Sugar Man.
Untrue. Excalibur #10 basically spent the issue discussing how Magneto never really used his full powers until then. Magneto even explained how he was using some new muscles in his mind for the first time. So the wormhole was specifically meant to be under Magneto's own power. They said that once in proximity Magneto is able to use Wanda's powers as his own....but to get within proximity, Magneto had to use the wormhole of his own power.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I said WTF to "Magneto is a telepath now". You said see Excalibur #15. I said there is no Excalibur #15. You said wormhole feat is Excalibur #09 (which it isn't).
Excalibur #10 shows Magneto forcing Hub to teleport. Callisto confirms this an issue or two later by wondering how it's possible Magneto now controls minds. Prior to that Magneto prevented old members of the brotherhood from recognizing him - even Unus, despite being in front of his face. And that was long before Wanda was present on the island.
And HoM #07 basically retconned that. How long has Wanda Maximoff being playing with the world, and is Magneto even Magneto. This "feat" occured in proximity to her desire to be rescued - girls want their daddies to bail them out when they're in trouble. BTW there's no major discussion of Magneto's abilities in Excalibur #10 - Callisto fights Sugar Man.
Try Excalibur #11. I'm going by memory, obviously, since I'm typing this in bed and I'm not about to get up and dig through my collection at 5am. But you seem to have them in front of you..check it out for yourself.
And HOM didn't retcon that. Was Wanda manipulating the MU for a long time? Possibly...it was speculated. But considering Wanda has been around for YEARS, what, are we now to say that no feats or powers count prior to Wanda initially going crazy over her twins because of the possibility that she made it happen? That line of reasoning pretty much puts the entire Marvel Universe since the late 80s in doubt.
You want Speed/Precision? Supes can be anywhere on the planet near instantly, and even in space. Mags simply can't keep up.
Supes then lets the heat vision rain down on his enemies with razor sharp precision.
Again, Pinpoint accuracy...from SPACE to under the earths crust.
Remember that example with Supes picking up a phantom zone ray from his fortress? It can easily be done when you have this kind of speed.
or can easily have Mags encased in this, and tossed to Mars.
You can take as many scans from the Superman respect thread as you'd like..but none of it addresses my fundamental points:
Magneto's forcefield won't be broken by him.
He can't be encased in ice.
It will repel heat vision.
And, like I said before...Magneto can drain Superman of his power at will. From anywhere in the world. Without even seeing Superman or knowing where he is.
Originally posted by demigawd
He's better off punching. That thunderclap didn't look very impressive in that scan.Superman still gets drained and dumped into a red sun.
Moot Point.
Let me guess, He'll do this while simultaneously blocking multiple mountain shattering punches faster than human thought, attempting to drain Superman, creating a red sun, and attempting to make a wormhole under his own power?
Even if he could do all that...then he STILL has to get supes in the wormhole...
Mags gets smashed quicker than Darkseid did when Supes got annoyed.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Then again, Mags is nowhere near the size of a planet. Moot point.
There's no difference between freezing a pebble and freezing a planet. You just gotta do it longer. I'd EXPECT Superman to be able to freeze a planet quickly at his speeds. It's really not that impressive.
It's not a moot point, however, that the forcefield, being of EM energy, would electrolyze any attempts to form ice over it and instantly convert it to oxygen and hydrogen. Which leads to....
He's being encased in ice, and tossed. Nothing he can do about it.
...this not being able to work.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Moot Point.Let me guess, He'll do this while simultaneously blocking multiple mountain shattering punches faster than human thought, attempting to drain Superman, creating a red sun, and attempting to make a wormhole under his own power?
Even if he could do all that...then he STILL has to get supes in the wormhole...
Mags gets smashed quicker than Darkseid did when Supes got annoyed.
Naw. He has up his shield, files his nails, looks up and sees Superman pounding at the forcefield at faster than light speeds, sighs, gestures and Superman suddenly stops absorbing light. Magneto continues filing his nails, gestures, and Superman's cells suddenly no longer are containing the EM-based solar radiation. Superman isn't punching so hard anymore. Magneto then gestures one more time and hits Superman with a dose of red sun radiation, and without anymore sources of solar energy to replenish (which is what saved him against Ruin and Polaris), Superman falls to his knees.
THEN Magneto opens a wormhole to the nearest red sun and dumps him in.
Originally posted by demigawd
You can take as many scans from the Superman respect thread as you'd like..but none of it addresses my fundamental points:Magneto's forcefield won't be broken by him.
He can't be encased in ice.
It will repel heat vision.And, like I said before...Magneto can drain Superman of his power at will. From anywhere in the world. Without even seeing Superman or knowing where he is.
You've shown nothing that backs your claims yet. You've shown Gambit.
Hardly a match for Superman. Mags finding the Professor in a metal chair while standing still. You haven't refuted anything from me or anyone else either.
The only person supporting you so far is a retard who can't spell or write.
That should tell you something.
Supes could easily pull everything I've said off, while Mags wouldn't get a chance to pull off 1 thing you've said, nevermind the whole ridiculous arsenals of wormhole, sun blacking, teleporting, mind control, super shield.
One last thing Supes aura >>>> Mags shield. The guys gone through worm holes and escaped black holes...you know...where there is NO sunlight...where everything gets destroyed, crushed, drained?
Put that field together at light speed, with mountain/moon moving strength and far faster than human thought speed, and you have a dead/beaten geezer adjusting to his new life on mars.
I'm bored. Now I'm really done with this forum.
Originally posted by demigawdIt just seems beyond coincidence that these feats occur directly in the lead up to HoM, they occur in a title that has the introductory issues to HoM, they occur in aid of Wanda Maximoff, they're beyond what the character was generally capable before, and they've never been repeated since.
Try Excalibur #11. I'm going by memory, obviously, since I'm typing this in bed and I'm not about to get up and dig through my collection at 5am. But you seem to have them in front of you..check it out for yourself.And HOM didn't retcon that. Was Wanda manipulating the MU for a long time? Possibly...it was speculated. But considering Wanda has been around for YEARS, what, are we now to say that no feats or powers count prior to Wanda initially going crazy over her twins because of the possibility that she made it happen? That line of reasoning pretty much puts the entire Marvel Universe since the late 80s in doubt.
It's pretty selective to take this particular Magneto. The most recent Magneto has no powers. The most recent powered Magneto was HoM Magneto. This Magneto isn't even really "pre-HoM" Magneto. It's just "last few issues of Excalibur" Magneto.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
You've shown nothing that backs your claims yet. You've shown Gambit.
Hardly a match for Superman. Mags finding the Professor in a metal chair while standing still. You haven't refuted anything from me or anyone else either.
Haven't refuted what?
That Superman punches Magneto out? Forcefield prevents it (shows scans of Thor and She-Hulk at the same time pounding to no effect).
That Superman attacks FTL? The auto-forcefield protects Magneto even if Superman attacks before Magneto registers that he's being attacked.
That Superman has heat vision? I've shown scans of energy being reflected. And like I said, it doesn't matter how much or how powerful the energy is because of how the forcefield works.
That Superman can encase Magneto in ice? Ditto with the forcefield reflecting any energy that comes in contact with it.
What haven't I refuted? I've refuted everything. You and all of the Superman supporters have failed to counter any of those points. Instead, you just repeat it over and over and post irrelevant scans from his respect thread that have no bearing on the fight.
Magneto drains Superman and Superman has no way to prevent that. Your own scans show Superman being weakened by such techniques by lesser characters. And nobody has refuted that.
The only person supporting you so far is a retard who can't spell or write.That should tell you something.
It doesn't tell me anything other than what the balance of the board's population is. Go back to this thread in April on page eight or so and everybody supported Magneto. Then the population shifted. It means nothing, since all of my points stand without refutation.
Supes could easily pull everything I've said off, while Mags wouldn't get a chance to pull off 1 thing you've said, nevermind the whole ridiculous arsenals of wormhole, sun blacking, teleporting, mind control, super shield.
No, not nevermind the arsenals, because the arsenals are what make Superman lose to Magneto. Superman couldn't pull of a single thing you said for the reasons I've explained and were never countered, but just repeated.
One last thing Supes aura >>>> Mags shield. The guys gone through worm holes and escaped black holes...you know...where there is NO sunlight...where everything gets destroyed, crushed, drained?
Also EM-based and easily lifted.
No one has been able to successfully counter my point that Superman cannot penetrate Magneto's forcefield. And unless he can, then this entire excerise is moot.
