There need not be civility. The borders should be monitored and controlled. Any illegal immigrant should be shot if he/she feels the need to enter the country ilegally. If a person can't follow the rules of citizenship, then they shouldn't be here. Shoot them if you must, but there need not be a debate about the rules of this country. Especially when they protect the people who are already legal citizens. We can debate their economic advatange v. their disadvantage. But, in the long run, they are still no less beholdent to the same rules as everyone else who are here legally. I'm sorry that you weren't born here...but the process still applies. I may resent a lot of the rules that govern this country, but that doesn't make me less beholdent to them. If I disagree withthem, then I can move to another country.
Originally posted by long pig
I'm saying you're talking hippy bullshit.
You basically said "let there be open borders".
I called you out on your bullshit, don't get PMS'd at me, deal with it.
My dear elongated swine, I fail to grasp the logic and rationale behind a belief that a factor that you have absolutely no control over should determine where you live.
Please don't get your nose-rings in a twist just because I highlighted your blatent and pathetic plagairism in the thread you posted in the 'Off-Topic Forum'.
Need reminding? Here you are:
I have no original thoughts, so I'll copy and paste someone else's...
Welcome.
Originally posted by Ou Be Low hoo
My dear elongated swine, I fail to grasp the logic and rationale behind a belief that a factor that you have absolutely no control over should determine where you live.Please don't get your nose-rings in a twist just because I highlighted your blatent and pathetic plagairism in the thread you posted in the 'Off-Topic Forum'.
Need reminding? Here you are:
I have no original thoughts, so I'll copy and paste someone else's...
Welcome.
...dont you think thats abit irrelvent to this thread? 😕
Originally posted by PVS
um...ok...those in power hate gays and feel you should stay in the closet, be abstinent, and never be happy, forever atoning for your 'sins'. shall i help you pack your bags?
I understand what you're saying. But, the rules for governing our own citizens are different. Illegal immigrants are not our citizens. The rules about gay people can change, but the rules shouldn't change with regard to illegal immigrants. I don't really support the idea of shooting anybody, but they are still here illegally. I guess it's kinda like living with your mother. Your mother will let you live with her, despite being gay...but if you broke into someone else's mothers house, then she'll likely shoot you.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
...but if you broke into someone else's mothers house, then she'll likely shoot you.
ok, bad analogies aside, why do you not feel, as i do, that the correct party to punish would be those who hire these illegals rather than the illegals themselves. i dont feel that ANYONE should be shot, or even jailed. rather, i feel that they (the ones who hire) should be hurt in the very place they seek to gain--their wallet. i think the prospect of losing one's business over such a venture would deter people from hiring them.
if their are no jobs to be had, they will have no reason to come here.
its a far better solution than punishing those with little or nothing to lose.
punishment only works when those who would commit a crime have something
to fear.
Originally posted by PVS
ok, bad analogies aside, why do you not feel, as i do, that the correct party to punish would be those who hire these illegals rather than the illegals themselves. i dont feel that ANYONE should be shot, or even jailed. rather, i feel that they (the ones who hire) should be hurt in the very place they seek to gain--their wallet. i think the prospect of losing one's business over such a venture would deter people from hiring them.if their are no jobs to be had, they will have no reason to come here.
its a far better solution than punishing those with little or nothing to lose.
punishment only works when those who would commit a crime have something
to fear.
It's not that bad an analogy. I mean, come on.
And the people who hire illegal immigrant DO get punished. I brought that up earlier. My granfathers company gets reamed for hiring illegal immigrants. My mother is the VP of human resources and she bitches about it all the time. Not only do they get fined hundreds of thousands of dollars, but they get fined even when there's evidence that the immigrants presented false documents legitimizing their residency. And it isn't always immigrants from Mexico. In the part of NC where she lives, there is a huge Greek population. So, it isn't just Mexicans that illegally enter the country. My opinion isn't reflective of my feelings for people of Mexican origin, it's reflective of all ILLEGAL immigrants. However, Mexican immigrants are the ones that have the greatest chance of being deported and returning over and over again. Every time one is caught and sent back, what is to disuade them from returning? There isn't anything. We find them, put them on a truck and ship them back. I'm not saying that I have the perfect solution to the problem, because if we jail them, then they are still going to be burden on the economy. But just sending them back isn't going to solve anyting either. Maybe we should start cutting off fingers.
Like I said before, I'm willing to bet that most want to be productive citizens and create a better life for themselves and their families. But, there is a process involved.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
IBut just sending them back isn't going to solve anyting either. Maybe we should start cutting off fingers.
you fail to see the truth in your sarcasm it seems. cruel and unusual punishment would be the only deterrant. reason being that they have nothing to lose. thats why i say 'go after the businesses'. because thats the only way i see to solve the problem. to go after those who create the demand and have everything to lose.
as far as your family's business situation, and them getting screwed over...that exhibits a flaw in the system of punishing those who hire. that means that the flaw must be fixed rather than just ditching the system.
a more tight system must be set up so that business owners are NOT held responsible for illegals who forge their papers. simple as that. and as far as the rest who hire illegals and KNOW it (majority) they should have their asses nailed to the wall. start financially crucifying these pricks and you'll see the problem clear up pretty damn quick.
----------A 24-year-old Mexican charged with the Oregon murder of a father and the shooting of his 16-year-old son in a home-invasion robbery is an illegal alien with an Oregon driver's license who has been previously deported from the United States. Juan Carlos Solis is awaiting trial on 41 counts of aggravated murder, attempted murder, assault in the first degree, robbery in the first degree, robbery in the second degree and burglary in the first degree, along with at least three other suspects in the July 2004 home-------
I read that and i thought of this post, go to michaelsavage.com to see the guy in the flesh
Originally posted by moviejunkie23
----------A 24-year-old Mexican charged with the Oregon murder of a father and the shooting of his 16-year-old son in a home-invasion robbery is an illegal alien with an Oregon driver's license who has been previously deported from the United States. Juan Carlos Solis is awaiting trial on 41 counts of aggravated murder, attempted murder, assault in the first degree, robbery in the first degree, robbery in the second degree and burglary in the first degree, along with at least three other suspects in the July 2004 home-------I read that and i thought of this post, go to michaelsavage.com to see the guy in the flesh
Originally posted by PVS
ok, bad analogies aside, why do you not feel, as i do, that the correct party to punish would be those who hire these illegals rather than the illegals themselves. i dont feel that ANYONE should be shot, or even jailed. rather, i feel that they (the ones who hire) should be hurt in the very place they seek to gain--their wallet. i think the prospect of losing one's business over such a venture would deter people from hiring them.if their are no jobs to be had, they will have no reason to come here.
its a far better solution than punishing those with little or nothing to lose.
punishment only works when those who would commit a crime have something
to fear.
Scary..I'm actually going to have to agree with PVS... I believe he's hit the nail right on the head with this issue. The Bush Administration has essentially created an "open door" policy when it comes to mexican illegal immigrants entering this country. Companies that hire illegal immigrants, seem to get nothing but a slap on the hand when they break the law. We definately have to stop this problem at its source, and the source starts with big business. Unfortunately we have a pro big business president in office right now...so stopping the problem ain't going to happen anytime soon.