Darth Vader vs. Spider-Man

Originally posted by sumbum
who kid, i already apologized for the insults. I was annoyed when I wrote it, and tired. How do you figure those were half decent points? I'd like to know that one. And no, you werent being polite.

But the thing is, that:

1. People seem to confuse the Force itself with Darth Vader. Vader has no instant, limitless access to the Force.

2. Movie Vader hasn't done one thing that would give him a chance against Spider-Man. I have already admitted that comic-Vader is indeed more powerful (but how much is he in continuity ?), and that it could go either way. But comparing movie Vader to Spider-Man is a joke.

3. The so-called pre-cog abilities of the Jedis are also being overrated. If I didn't know any better, Jedis feel every kind of attack, dodge them perfectly and throw the whole freaking Force at the attacker in only one second.

Wrong. It doesn't work that way - or to say the least, definitely not always...

4. Like it or not, but Vader IS an old man, not only that, but he entirely depends on a life support system that hangs all around his body. That's a huge weakness ! One punch could utterly destroy it - or could punch Darth Vaders light out.

5. Vader ONLY has a good chance when he sees Spider-Man coming for him, while SM is still a few hundred meters away. Then he can use whatever Jedi/Sith trick on him. But when they are standing pretty close to each other, let's say 10 meters, Spider-Man can with his web easily snatch his lightsword out of his hands (a thing he does all the time) before Vader realizes what's happening.

'Old man vader get's beaten by the Character's that began their careers with detailed written definitions that place them at a level far above Vader after he was defined by a low budget production. You want to blame someone for people being able to use that pitiful example? Blame Lucas for not writing the book first. Point of view from someone who only knows vader from initial introduction...Vader's slow and he's obviously hot in that costume. Can this guy beat who!? Spider-Man!!? STOP IT MAN YOUR KILLING ME!!!! "

how can you honestly say that here and then practically say that spiderman's written life experiences don't mean anything in another thread?........... very hipocritical....

sumbum, i meant it when i said you can have whatever opinions you like and i'm GLAD you disagree iwth some of us. i for one am waiting to see the 3rd movie before i conclude anything about these 2. my whole position has always been based on what i've seen at the movies. maybe if i'd read any of the sw novels or comics, i'd be better informed, but based on the MOVIES thus far, i'm not convinced vader (whom i love by the way) could whoop spidey the way some around here say. if he shows more in the 3rd movie, i'm fully prepared to change my opinion. and you're right - i shouldn't have retaliated with insults. your post just pissed me off. my apologies.

<<You mean like where Mace charged the guy (cutting down on the time distence between bolts) and lopped his head off?>>

if you're gonna bring it up, fill in the context please - that context being that jengo had just been RUN OVER BY A DINOSAUR AND HAD HIS WEAPON SMASHED BEFORE mace did his 'his distance swallowing force charge'! jengo initially chased mace away with a blast of plain old boring fire. then of course there's the fact that i was talking about kenobi and not mace . . .

"People seem to confuse the Force itself with Darth Vader. Vader has no instant, limitless access to the Force."

this is an opinion not a point......egardless vader has the most control of the force than anyone before him....

"Movie Vader hasn't done one thing that would give him a chance against Spider-Man. I have already admitted that comic-Vader is indeed more powerful (but how much is he in continuity ?), and that it could go either way. But comparing movie Vader to Spider-Man is a joke."

so I guess spidey's immune to having metal things thrown at his face via force....or getting force choked?

"3. The so-called pre-cog abilities of the Jedis are also being overrated. If I didn't know any better, Jedis feel every kind of attack, dodge them perfectly and throw the whole freaking Force at the attacker in only one second."

sometimes that's exactly what happens.... funny though....I've never seen you admit that spidey's spider sense is being overrated....hmmmmmm

" Like it or not, but Vader IS an old man, not only that, but he entirely depends on a life support system that hangs all around his body. That's a huge weakness ! One punch could utterly destroy it - or could punch Darth Vaders light out"

vader being an old man is a weakness? 😂 watch episode 3 old jedis and siths don't equate to weaker slower opponents.....and yeah spidey might be able to take him down in one shot...assuming his hand ever got within striking distance...it won't.....

. "Vader ONLY has a good chance when he sees Spider-Man coming for him, while SM is still a few hundred meters away. Then he can use whatever Jedi/Sith trick on him. But when they are standing pretty close to each other, let's say 10 meters, Spider-Man can with his web easily snatch his lightsword out of his hands (a thing he does all the time) before Vader realizes what's happening."

no he can't we already debated that were not paying attention?

Just to throw it in there, Mace wasn't running from his blaster shots. i seem to remember mace jumping off of a super high platform into the arena, while in mid air deflecting bullets shot from BEHING back into the droids who fired them...then landing and fighting jango fett. While charging, jango was firing shots at him from a MINIMAl gap....that leaves NOOO reaction time practically. He deflects all of these and decapitates the bounty hunter. In other words....no, he wasn't scared of jango's blaster

Originally posted by jinzin
this is an opinion not a point......

so I guess spidey's immune to having metal things thrown at his face via force....or getting force choked?

sometimes that's exactly what happens.... funny though....I've never seen you admit that spidey's spider sense is being overrated....hmmmmmm

vader being an old man is a weakness?

no he can't we already debated that were not paying attention?

"That is not an opinion, that's a hard fact. Or do you really believe Vader has unlimited, instant and utterly control over the whole Force itself ?"

i was reffering to fans confusing vader and the force......vader while not having unlimited access has excellent control and enough access to down spidey......he has 20 times more power than he needs to do it too.....

"Throwing metal things at Spider-Man... yeah, that will probably do it... and being force choked... why didn't I think of that ?"

I couldn't tell ya....but that would probably explain why you're still debating this....

"You haven't been paying attention. I already said Spider-Man's spider-sense isn't perfect, that it's sometimes too slow. But in most cases, it works perfect. And you know it."

could a fooled me.....anyway...it won't help him against a force choke......

"Hm, not really, but it isn't gonna help him either, to say the least."

then why did you bring it up as a weakness?

"Maybe your arguments weren't very convincing."

why because spiderman would lose? does that not cope well in your delusional fantasies?

who kid, you really have a lot of nerve.

First off, of course he doesn't have control over the whole force....it doesn't even work that way. The force is simply the ability to listen to/manipulate the midi-chlorians within us. Midi-chlorians are supposively similar to mitochondria. But yes...you can't control the whole force, because there is no "whole" force, you can just be strong with the force. Have a powerful ability to use the force. Do I think he has instant use of the force...yes. Otherwise, young jedi training in luke would not have been able to deflect little "mini blaster shots" while blindfolded. Considering his training had just begun with that. The force isn't something you have to call upon, its something thats always speaking with you....you can always feel it. Therefore you can make use of its powers whenever you would like. As for having unlimited use of the force...no you don't have this. As illustrated in episode 3 when sidious was running out of the power to use lightning on windu. It seemed to hurt him to continually use this. But that is just one example. They could deflect blaster shots all day, without depleting their "force supply" we will call it.

quote:
Throwing metal things at Spider-Man... yeah, that will probably do it... and being force choked... why didn't I think of that ?

wow, great argument...sarcasm really proved your point. Besides jinzin was merely making an illustrative point, not listing vadors full potential.

In most cases, vador's works perfect too...in fact, im tempted to say always works perfect...but i have no fact to back this...so i wont.

Your right, being old won't help Vador...but it won't help spidey either...with age vador lost speed, but his light saber skills ARE just as good, and he has a much better understanding of the force, thus he can use it better.

maybe ur response isnt very convincing either. How is someone going to rap cute webbing around a mans lightsaber hilt, when he can anticipate the webbing coming before it even does? good question? yes i agree. BTW at a couple hundred meters...vador is as useless as spiderman. close range vador has sabor, mediumrange vador can anticipate attacks, thus parry. Whats spiderman going to do to over come this? Once you can tell me something spiderman can do that cant be defended by Vador, I will admit defeat, and agree that spiderman would win...no questions asked.

vader isn't useless at a distance....he force choked a guy that was star systems away from him....

Originally posted by jinzin
'Old man vader get's beaten by the Character's that began their careers with detailed written definitions that place them at a level far above Vader after he was defined by a low budget production. You want to blame someone for people being able to use that pitiful example? Blame Lucas for not writing the book first. Point of view from someone who only knows vader from initial introduction...Vader's slow and he's obviously hot in that costume. Can this guy beat who!? Spider-Man!!? STOP IT MAN YOUR KILLING ME!!!! "

how can you honestly say that here and then practically say that spiderman's written life experiences don't mean anything in another thread?........... very hipocritical....

I base my all my opinions on sound logic and allow for all info. I throw out info that contradicts actual fact. The reason that the bad writing argument is used is because bad writing exists... calling me a hypocrite is the pot calling out the kettle... Your use of bad examples is seen on every spidey thread including crossovers to support your fantastical views. Then when someone uses a perfectly logical example like" Lady shiva gave Batman a really hard time you say" bad example, that's only because she's really good!!!... You obviously have a lot of respect for the characters but not as much respect for the opinions of others.

I think vader would win too..., But that's just my opinion. It's not gospel no matter who says it.. I could care less what Lucas himself has to say...You'd call it bad writing if Spidey beat Vader in a comic wouldn't you? It could happen...If Batman can kick the hulk and make him feel it Spidey can throw a rock and put a sith lord on his ass. It's actually more likely to happen... I'm gone from posting now 😮‍💨

Originally posted by jinzin
"That is not an opinion, that's a hard fact. Or do you really believe Vader has unlimited, instant and utterly control over the whole Force itself ?"

i was reffering to fans confusing vader and the force......vader while not having unlimited access has excellent control and enough access to down spidey......he has 20 times more power than he needs to do it too.....

"Throwing metal things at Spider-Man... yeah, that will probably do it... and being force choked... why didn't I think of that ?"

I couldn't tell ya....but that would probably explain why you're still debating this....

"You haven't been paying attention. I already said Spider-Man's spider-sense isn't perfect, that it's sometimes too slow. But in most cases, it works perfect. And you know it."

could a fooled me.....anyway...it won't help him against a force choke......

"Hm, not really, but it isn't gonna help him either, to say the least."

then why did you bring it up as a weakness?

"Maybe your arguments weren't very convincing."

why because spiderman would lose? does that not cope well in your delusional fantasies?

couple things: a lot of you were debating the whole speed of webbing thing a few pages back. My point is that I don't think Spidey will even NEED his webbing. Spidey closes the gap, Vader takes a few swipes with his saber which Spidey avoids with his superior speed/reflexes/spidey-sense, and then proceeds to make short work of Vader's life support and face.

Another thing: sumbum I see that you've already made up with most of the other posters in this thread so I won't pile on, but you did write one thing in your original post that I found curious.
Sumbum wrote:
"Yes, lifting a 30,000 pound pillar in episode two required a little perspiration from yodas cute litte face, but when i recall in spiderman's movie, he passed out after stopping the train. "

Hmm, well, not sure what a subway train weighs but I'm pretty sure it's at LEAST 30,000 lbs.....but more importantly, and since you are allegedly a physics major you should know this, there is a little thing called momentum in the physical world. It's found by multiplying mass and VELOCITY. What it means is that stopping a speeding subway train would be SIGNIFICANTLY harder than lifting a stationary pillar.

Originally posted by bertran
couple things: a lot of you were debating the whole speed of webbing thing a few pages back. My point is that I don't think Spidey will even NEED his webbing. Spidey closes the gap, Vader takes a few swipes with his saber which Spidey avoids with his superior speed/reflexes/spidey-sense, and then proceeds to make short work of Vader's life support and face.

Originally posted by bertran
couple things: a lot of you were debating the whole speed of webbing thing a few pages back. My point is that I don't think Spidey will even NEED his webbing. Spidey closes the gap, Vader takes a few swipes with his saber which Spidey avoids with his superior speed/reflexes/spidey-sense, and then proceeds to make short work of Vader's life support and face.

Another thing: sumbum I see that you've already made up with most of the other posters in this thread so I won't pile on, but you did write one thing in your original post that I found curious.
Sumbum wrote:
"Yes, lifting a 30,000 pound pillar in episode two required a little perspiration from yodas cute litte face, but when i recall in spiderman's movie, he passed out after stopping the train. "

Hmm, well, not sure what a subway train weighs but I'm pretty sure it's at LEAST 30,000 lbs.....but more importantly, and since you are allegedly a physics major you should know this, there is a little thing called momentum in the physical world. It's found by multiplying mass and VELOCITY. What it means is that stopping a speeding subway train would be SIGNIFICANTLY harder than lifting a stationary pillar.

I agree with you...yes...but momentum is mass times velocity. Force is mass times acceleration. Which that people was decelerating at a slow pace. Also, that huge pillar, also was falling, it was broken and pushed down by count dooku. Which gives it momentum, and a lot of downward force as its accelerating at 9.8 m/s/s. He's fighting the force of the piller, and gravity....spidey is only fighting momentum. Bad point to argue, but I'm glad you did...

great job bertran! but do you REALLY think a little old subway train weighs MORE than 30,000lbs?

🙂

"Your use of bad examples is seen on every spidey thread including crossovers to support your fantastical views. Then when someone uses a perfectly logical example like" Lady shiva gave Batman a really hard time you say" bad example, that's only because she's really good!!!...
"

the thing is....my examples are comparible......you have absolutely NO evidence that spidey could take lady shiva....cause nothing of the sort has ever happened......bad writing and bad examples are two different things......

"You obviously have a lot of respect for the characters but not as much respect for the opinions of others. "

I respect the opninions of others just fine....but when you're telling me that since lady shiva can give batman a hard time that spidey would kill him...you have nothing to support it....if a decent ninja could put spiderman in a stalemate including his superspeed and reflexes....imagine what lady shiva would do to him.....she's not jst some girl with a few fancy moves...she's THE girl......sorry for you getting offended but seriously spidey fans are some of the most hipocritical people I've ever met in my life.........

"Speaking of hypocritical comments It's quite a delusional fantasy that Batman is on par with Spidey due to some knowledge of all martial arts and a few gas pellets."

again....that's all opnionated........can batman beat spidey in a 1 on 1 confrontation......I think so...obviusly you don't that's one thing.....but for people to think that spidey would even get withing striking distance of vader or that he is in any way immune to the effects of force induced attacks....is simply dilusional.....

<<He's fighting the force of the piller, and gravity....spidey is only fighting momentum. Bad point to argue, but I'm glad you did...>>

wtf?? he's not fighting the 'force' of the pillar. he's batlling the 'force' of gravity. and gravity does accelerate /s, but yoda grabbed it almost immediately. gravity will hardly have had a chance to acceperate it from its initial position! had it been falling for 10s, then gravity would have had a significant impact on it momentum.

and even it it DID fall for 10s . . . we're talking about an out of control TRAIN! figure 10 cars, each weighing 5-10 tons, plus the engine probably 25-30 tons (maybe more), travelling 50+mph . . .

i'll let bertran do the math but a comparison of the difficulty of the 2 feats are not even worth discussing. even yoda's lifting the fighter in the swamp was NOTHING compared to what spidey did with that train.

but you're right in one regard - it was indeed a bad point to argue . . .

Originally posted by jinzin
"Your use of bad examples is seen on every spidey thread including crossovers to support your fantastical views. Then when someone uses a perfectly logical example like" Lady shiva gave Batman a really hard time you say" bad example, that's only because she's really good!!!...
"

the thing is....my examples are comparible......you have absolutely NO evidence that spidey could take lady shiva....cause nothing of the sort has ever happened......bad writing and bad examples are two different things......

"You obviously have a lot of respect for the characters but not as much respect for the opinions of others. "

I respect the opninions of others just fine....but when you're telling me that since lady shiva can give batman a hard time that spidey would kill him...you have nothing to support it....if a decent ninja could put spiderman in a stalemate including his superspeed and reflexes....imagine what lady shiva would do to him.....she's not jst some girl with a few fancy moves...she's THE girl......sorry for you getting offended but seriously spidey fans are some of the most hipocritical people I've ever met in my life.........

"Speaking of hypocritical comments It's quite a delusional fantasy that Batman is on par with Spidey due to some knowledge of all martial arts and a few gas pellets."

again....that's all opnionated........can batman beat spidey in a 1 on 1 confrontation......I think so...obviusly you don't that's one thing.....but for people to think that spidey would even get withing striking distance of vader or that he is in any way immune to the effects of force induced attacks....is simply dilusional.....

Lady Shiva has never faced the white ninja whom you speak of quite often and there's NO guarantee that she's superior or inferior but we know without a doubt that there are no martial artists that Spider-man is inferior to unless I missed something....stalemated doesn't mean beat down. So I tend to lean towards the facts that remain consistent no matter what... Those facts being that Spider-man is never inferior to an attacker who isn't a Powerhouse in quite a few ways. And someone may prove that Vader will fall but that would surprise me. Some very good points have been made.... 😎

Originally posted by bertran
Spidey avoids with his superior speed/reflexes/spidey-sense

See this is why Star Wars really shouldn't be posted in this forum because not enough people know jack shit about it.