Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Why would you say that KG? The watcher says the Phoenix's power is second only to that of the Creator
Before such beigns as Eternity and LT was brought up, but like I said, PF is not higher than Eternity nor is Eternity higher than PF, they are both imporant to existence, but somehow I always felt that PF has more raw power than Eternity.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Why would you say that KG? The watcher says the Phoenix's power is second only to that of the Creator
Doesn’t mean its right
The watcher claims lots of shit and is not always right.
He once said he (watcher) was the strongest. lol
Why would I say Eternity > Phoenix force?
Just because in all marvel comics (when shit goes down)
The rank has always been LT followed by Eternity.
IG
Cubes
The End
Secret wars
etc.
Second only to the Creator ?
Than Phoenix Force > LT I guess ?
Actually both Eternity and the Living Tribunal already existed by a good decade.And Claremont knew both,since he wrote issues of Dr.Strange with Eternity and was supervisor for many comics at marvel at the time (and anyway this is not an excuse for the Watcher,which couldnt possibly have not known them even if they were invented later).The real problem is whether Claremont or Morrison are acknowledged by the rest of the Marvel Universe,because in their interpretation the Phoenix is just a name for the force of Creation (with the capital C).The original idea was that when Jean Grey died on the shuttle for an instant her mind came in touch with all of creation:all of life (telepathy) all matter and energy (telekinesis).She was then able to reform herself as Phoenix,and became an avatar,or incarnation (very much in the sense in which Jesus Christ is an incarnation of God),of the primal force of Creation,which flows through everything that is😛lanets,stars,matter,energy,time,space.
Before the retcon phoenix was not the name of the force,but only the symbol of the rebirth of the human into the divine.Notice how many times Claremont uses the term "creation" "primal force of creation" when he describes the phoenix,from the very beginning in xmen 101,when Jean says in her delirium when the x-men bring her to the hospital that the planets,the stars,all of creation is a part of her.Through her this force of creation could act in our plane of existence,and save the universe/multiverse repairing the M'Krann Crystal,which holds all of reality together.
In Morrison version the Phoenix avatars exist outside time and space
in the White Hot Room,they tend to the various broken universes when need be they get incarnated into them to perform acts of microsurgery from the inside.In the kabalistic symbology that Claremont first used the Phoenix is a symbol of the incarnation of God in the mortal plane,and the Crown is the highest form of God
conceivable and the origin of everything😛resence and Source are synonims of the Crown,all three are names of the same aspect of God.
Very good post Markolin 😄
Originally posted by markolin
Actually both Eternity and the Living Tribunal already existed by a good decade.And Claremont knew both,since he wrote issues of Dr.Strange with Eternity and was supervisor for many comics at marvel at the time (and anyway this is not an excuse for the Watcher,which couldnt possibly have not known them even if they were invented later).The real problem is whether Claremont or Morrison are acknowledged by the rest of the Marvel Universe,because in their interpretation the Phoenix is just a name for the force of Creation (with the capital C).The original idea was that when Jean Grey died on the shuttle for an instant her mind came in touch with all of creation:all of life (telepathy) all matter and energy (telekinesis).She was then able to reform herself as Phoenix,and became an avatar,or incarnation (very much in the sense in which Jesus Christ is an incarnation of God),of the primal force of Creation,which flows through everything that is😛lanets,stars,matter,energy,time,space.
Before the retcon phoenix was not the name of the force,but only the symbol of the rebirth of the human into the divine.Notice how many times Claremont uses the term "creation" "primal force of creation" when he describes the phoenix,from the very beginning in xmen 101,when Jean says in her delirium when the x-men bring her to the hospital that the planets,the stars,all of creation is a part of her.Through her this force of creation could act in our plane of existence,and save the universe/multiverse repairing the M'Krann Crystal,which holds all of reality together.
In Morrison version the Phoenix avatars exist outside time and space
in the White Hot Room,they tend to the various broken universes when need be they get incarnated into them to perform acts of microsurgery from the inside.In the kabalistic symbology that Claremont first used the Phoenix is a symbol of the incarnation of God in the mortal plane,and the Crown is the highest form of God
conceivable and the origin of everything😛resence and Source are synonims of the Crown,all three are names of the same aspect of God.
Originally posted by markolin
Actually both Eternity and the Living Tribunal already existed by a good decade.And Claremont knew both,since he wrote issues of Dr.Strange with Eternity and was supervisor for many comics at marvel at the time (and anyway this is not an excuse for the Watcher,which couldnt possibly have not known them even if they were invented later).The real problem is whether Claremont or Morrison are acknowledged by the rest of the Marvel Universe,because in their interpretation the Phoenix is just a name for the force of Creation (with the capital C).The original idea was that when Jean Grey died on the shuttle for an instant her mind came in touch with all of creation:all of life (telepathy) all matter and energy (telekinesis).She was then able to reform herself as Phoenix,and became an avatar,or incarnation (very much in the sense in which Jesus Christ is an incarnation of God),of the primal force of Creation,which flows through everything that is😛lanets,stars,matter,energy,time,space.
Before the retcon phoenix was not the name of the force,but only the symbol of the rebirth of the human into the divine.Notice how many times Claremont uses the term "creation" "primal force of creation" when he describes the phoenix,from the very beginning in xmen 101,when Jean says in her delirium when the x-men bring her to the hospital that the planets,the stars,all of creation is a part of her.Through her this force of creation could act in our plane of existence,and save the universe/multiverse repairing the M'Krann Crystal,which holds all of reality together.
In Morrison version the Phoenix avatars exist outside time and space
in the White Hot Room,they tend to the various broken universes when need be they get incarnated into them to perform acts of microsurgery from the inside.In the kabalistic symbology that Claremont first used the Phoenix is a symbol of the incarnation of God in the mortal plane,and the Crown is the highest form of God
conceivable and the origin of everything😛resence and Source are synonims of the Crown,all three are names of the same aspect of God.
That was really gd. I tried to say a similar thing in a cosmic battles thread a few wks bk but it wasnt nearly as coherent or well worded as this. Thanx for that. Your post sent KG packing. 😄
In X-Men and New Teen Titans (written by Claremont) Darkseid evocated Dark Phoenix.The Phoenix manifestation comes from the Source and returns into the Source in the end.Which is exactly what Claremont intended also in the normal MU:the phoenix as an aspect of the force of creation.Anyway,phoenix is just a symbol:in other universes the manifestation may be different and have different forms.Plus the original idea was that this force generally remains non-sentient:it took Jean "reaching out" to provide the opportunity to incarnate in normal space and time.