Originally posted by kgkg
ya that post showedPhoenix Force > LT
and Phoenix Force > Eternity ?
🙄lol
Oh KG 🙄 . Ever since i schooled you about Galactus' true place in the hierarchy you've seemed to hav sumthin against the Phoenix. Makolins post was just informing people of the writers original idea for the Phoenix. An idea that has been reverted back to very recently. I have no doubt that the Phoenix is beyond Eternity. I hav already told you that it embodies both Eternity and Death as is stated in Xmen Forever. Did u manage to read all of those comic books like i told you to? 😛
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Oh KG 🙄 . Ever since i schooled you about Galactus' true place in the hierarchy you've seemed to hav sumthin against the Phoenix. Makolins post was just informing people of the writers original idea for the Phoenix. An idea that has been reverted back to very recently. I have no doubt that the Phoenix is beyond Eternity. I hav already told you that it embodies both Eternity and Death as is stated in Xmen Forever. Did u manage to read all of those comic books like i told you to? 😛
Yes I did some reading about Phoenix and guess what
She (phoenix) has battle Galactus when he was weak (twice).
And they were pretty much equal(phoenix did stop him twice).
Ideas and what actually happens in comics are two different things.
Darkeid is supposed to be equal to Galactus in power is he? Hell no
Ok GalacticStorm where does it say Phoenix force > Eternity
And Galactus is not Eternity
Originally posted by kgkg
lol Galactus?Yes I did some reading about Phoenix and guess what
She (phoenix) has battle Galactus when he was weak (twice).
And they were pretty much equal(phoenix did stop him twice).
Ideas and what actually happens in comics are two different things.
Darkeid is supposed to be equal to Galactus in power is he? Hell no
Ok GalacticStorm where does it say Phoenix force > Eternity
And Galactus is not Eternity
KG why do u do this to yourself. The outcomes always the same and in my mind never in doubt.
*sigh* Here we go:
"Look around you.Gaze upon this world you sought to save-Dead now.Victim to the titanic forces we unleashed.And I hover near death,my strength depleted-exhausted in our struggle...while you are neither weary nor hungry,because you tap into a source of near limitless potential"
Galactus may have been weak on ONE of the occassions that they fought but even if he had just consumed a planets worth of energy in a battle with Phoenix he would still exhaust that and she would still be going strong.
The previous time they fought it was Rachel in control, the weaker of the two Grey clan avatars by far and she still bested him.
Im sorry since when is Darkseid supposed to be on Galactus' level? Who said that? Its quite evident that he is not if superman can whup him.
Where does it say that Phoenix is greater i hear you ask? Well as it stands eternity is the embodiment of a single universe the stars and planets blah blah blah.
If you reread the original idea behind so eloquently depicted by Markolin on this thread, an idea Marvel has reverted to recently you will see why Phoenix is greater.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
KG why do u do this to yourself. The outcomes always the same and in my mind never in doubt.*sigh* Here we go:
[B]"Look around you.Gaze upon this world you sought to save-Dead now.Victim to the titanic forces we unleashed.And I hover near death,my strength depleted-exhausted in our struggle...while you are neither weary nor hungry,because you tap into a source of near limitless potential"
Galactus may have been weak on ONE of the occassions that they fought but even if he had just consumed a planets worth of energy in a battle with Phoenix he would still exhaust that and she would still be going strong.
The previous time they fought it was Rachel in control, the weaker of the two Grey clan avatars by far and she still bested him.
Im sorry since when is Darkseid supposed to be on Galactus' level? Who said that? Its quite evident that he is not if superman can whup him.
Where does it say that Phoenix is greater i hear you ask? Well as it stands eternity is the embodiment of a single universe the stars and planets blah blah blah.
If you reread the original idea behind so eloquently depicted by Markolin on this thread, an idea Marvel has reverted to recently you will see why Phoenix is greater. [/B]
Phoenix has almost limitless power? Guess what Celestial are said to have Infinite power, and Eternity is also said to have infinite power (no limit).
The fact is Galacuts (weak) was fighting Phoenix and doing a good job at it.
Idea? Now you are going to use Idea as a fact?
And you are using the Watcher’s word as fact.
Near Limitless power = Phoenix
Limitless power = Eternity, Infinity
Again am not even saying you are wrong. You just haven't provided anything.
Originally posted by kgkg
Again what does it prove?Phoenix has almost limitless power? Guess what Celestial are said to have Infinite power, and Eternity is also said to have infinite power (no limit).
The fact is Galacuts (weak) was fighting Phoenix and doing a good job at it.
Idea? Now you are going to use Idea as a fact?
And you are using the Watcher’s word as fact.
Near Limitless power = Phoenix
Limitless power = Eternity, InfinityAgain am not even saying you are wrong. You just haven't provided anything.
the limits are self-imposed, based on the host, and depend on the situation.
"Near Limitless power = Phoenix
Limitless power = Eternity, Infinity"
Well thats incorrect isnt it KG. The Infinity Gems are greater than Eternity or Infinity yet even they are humbled by LT. Limitless just like invulnerable is just a term thrown around in comics as you well know so you of all people should know better than to take it literally.
As it stands the idea behind the Phoenix was that it was an incarnation of the primal force of creation. That is why the Watcher deemed it a force second only to the Creator itself. That got retconned but now its been reverted back to. Eternity and Infinity and the LT all existed then. I wasnt sure myself until Markolin pointed that out. I'll check on the directory which should state their 1st appearances. However the Phoenix is one with all life in existence, not just the universe, that is common knowledge. It is clearly greater than the likes of eternity.
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
I think we're going a bit far saying that the Phoenix Force is equal to the Living Tribunal. She's probably above Galactus, but certainly lower than the Infinity Gauntlet. She's likely on par with infinity, as we first assumed.
I think its definitely above Galactus. But yeah, I dont think its above the Living Tribunal or such. Shes on par with eternity.
I really dont get what is so hard to understand. The Phoenix originally was an incarnation of the Creator in our plane of existence. By burning up on that space shuttle Jean Grey became one with everything in existence, not just the universe (even thats telling you its beyond Eternity already.) Which allowed the Creator to act within our plane of existence. Just like DC has different incarnations of their god. Such as The Word, The Source and so on the Phoenix represented rebirth it is a transitionary force that embodies life and death. It is the spark of life that resides within all living things and its is the chaos bringer that ends all that is. Avatars are chosen to do the work of the creator because it exists outside our realm of existence. Jean Grey becoming one with everything allowed it to funnel down through her into ours so that Phoenix was born!!
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
"Near Limitless power = Phoenix
Limitless power = Eternity, Infinity"Well thats incorrect isnt it KG. The Infinity Gems are greater than Eternity or Infinity yet even they are humbled by LT. Limitless just like invulnerable is just a term thrown around in comics as you well know so you of all people should know better than to take it literally.
As it stands the idea behind the Phoenix was that it was an incarnation of the primal force of creation. That is why the Watcher deemed it a force second only to the Creator itself. That got retconned but now its been reverted back to. Eternity and Infinity and the LT all existed then. I wasnt sure myself until Markolin pointed that out. I'll check on the directory which should state their 1st appearances. However the Phoenix is one with all life in existence, not just the universe, that is common knowledge. It is clearly greater than the likes of eternity.
You just posted something about almost limitless power.
Infinity, Eternity, Celestials all have infinite power.
There are power ranking between the Infinites. (Marvel even did a comic about infinite power its meaning etc)
Now you just showed me Phoenix has almost limitless power. 🙁
LT (limitless power) > IG (limitless power) > Infinity (limitless power) all have limitless power.
And where does the watcher say Phoenix is Second only to God.
What issue?
I said Phoenix force is not greater than Eternity. I am not even arguing if eternity is > Phoenix force you are the one that started to attack.
you even showed me a quote saying phoenix force has a limit  good job.
According to you PF > LT
This then get retconned and then you got all the various stories of the origin of the Phoenix and its connection with Feron and blah blah blah. This has been pushed to the side and now Marvel has gone back to the original idea. That is fact. Its not in debate. The Phoenix Force itself is just a representation of the creator in our plane of existence
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
This then get retconned and then you got all the various stories of the origin of the Phoenix and its connection with Feron and blah blah blah. This has been pushed to the side and now Marvel has gone back to the original idea. That is fact. Its not in debate. The Phoenix Force itself is just a representation of the creator in our plane of existence
is that what you are saying?
I don't know anything about retconned, i don't even read X-men
so what issue did they retconned Phoenix and made it > LT?
Check out Uncanny Xmen 137 where the watcher says that Jean is one with a force second only to that of the creator. Please understand this KG. You seem to have the original 1986 retcon too firmly placed in your head which is such a shame. That retcon has been scrapped!! Marvel are now going along with their original idea that the Phoenix Force is an incarnation of the creator in our plane of existence.
The Phoenix avatars are needed as doctors of the universe to carry out the creators work within our plane of existence. See the Phoenix as a representation not a cosmic being as the 86 retcon made it to be. That retcon has been the idea being pushed forward by marvels writers for most of the amount of time the phoenix entity has even existed in their comics, so the retcons ideas are so firmly placed in the minds of many comic readers. Forget alllll about it. The original idea has been reverted to.