<<Living Universes? Nope>>
i don't know. do universes in dc have embodying entities, or abstracts? i'm sure they do, but i can't think of them off-hand.
<<precrisis spectre basically WAS LT" nope Spectre is and always has been powered by God>>
well . . . you're right! and spectre STILL couldn't win! but i don't get why you've suddenly HELPED my argument. god permeates the MULTIVERSE. are you saying LT is greater than god???
Originally posted by Mider
You know Galacticstorm you pick up one one X-men comic and you think you know it all Jean Gray was defeated by the X-men im so sure She would be able to defeat the Anti-Monitor by Herself oh and did you forget Her being eaten by The Goblin Force you always talk down to everyone in here as if you know so much just state your ****ing rebuttle and stfu no one shoudl have to put up with your childish insults PF being reconned is pathetic its a force it needs Avatars to function and if the Anti-Monitor showed up it would be destroyed and NO ETERNITY DOESNT HAVE A CHANCE THE IG DOESNT HAVE A CHANCE LT DOESNT HAVE A CHANCE THE ANTI-MONITOR DESTORYED MORE THEN ONE UNIVERSE HOW THE HELL DOES ETERNITY BEAT HIM THE IG HAS POWER OVER ONE UNIVERSE AT A TIME SO DOES LT LT'S GREATEST FEAT IS BEING ABLE TO DESTROY A WHOLE UNIVERSE THATS IT and the Pre-crisis universe had prep time have you ever heard of that? PF cant beat everyone and i dont care what any new X-men comics say from what ive witnessed time and time again the Pheonix Force is not as powerful that it would rival Eternity oh and Galacticstorm you made up shit about The Beyonder calling the PF its almost equal or rival ive read Secret Wars II more then once The Beyonder ***** slaped The PF with out even breaking a sweak and never stated it being more powerful then He was He was never afraid of it He didnt just attack it He walked up to it and just grabed Her making Her go back to Her normal transformation if you knew anything youd know that the orginal Beyonder has powers SEVERAL times that of the multiverse meaning that even TOAA would not be able to handle the original Beyonder thus He was reconned.
Mider Im never unnecessarily insulting but if someone says something stupid yet still try and argue like they know what theyre talking about, then im sure as hell gonna tell them how it is.
Now lets get this straight BOY. You will not win a war of words with me. Understand that. I will own your ass all over these forums so dont even try it.
Boy you cant even spell for sh*t and you wanna make references to my maturity?
Puh-lease
🙄
I never claim to know everything about phoenix but it along with the xmen are my strengths and thats common knowledge on these forums. Accept that. You could learn a lot from me son. 😉
"Jean Gray was defeated by the X-men"
No Jean Grey killed herself.
"oh and did you forget Her being eaten by The Goblin Force"
Oh and did you forget that the phoenix force is a multiversal entity. The goblin force consumed merely a shard of the force. If it had consumed the entire phoenix then how do you explain Phoenixes appearances in New Xmen and more recently EndSong? *sigh* 🙄
"stfu no one shoudl have to put up with your childish insults"
Nope. Noone but the retarded who deserve my full wrath. 😄
"from what ive witnessed time and time again the Pheonix Force is not as powerful that it would rival Eternity"
Exactly. From what you've witnessed. All your posts make your comic book knowledge quite apparent and it leaves a lot be desired to say the least.
Do you not read posts BOY. The Phoenix force as stated in UncannyXmen 101 and 137 is the primal force of creation and is second only to TOAA.
Recent issues of FF say that the Phoenix is responsible for the creation of all of the abstracts such as eternity as it creates existence. So how is it just on par with Eternity? 🙄
In Xmen Forever Eternity calls Phoenix the resurrection force that is responsible for the creation of everything and it is the force that ends everything. He says its the assurance of life after death.
" The Beyonder ***** slaped The PF with out even breaking a sweak and never stated it being more powerful then He was He was never afraid of it He didnt just attack it He walked up to it and just grabed Her making Her go back to Her normal transformation if you knew anything youd know that the orginal Beyonder has powers SEVERAL times that of the multiverse meaning that even TOAA would not be able to handle the original Beyonder thus He was reconned. [/B][/QUOTE] "
Your knowedge of Phoenix is abysmal. I dont ever want to see you criticise anyone again on these forums or whatever the debate i will take you apart.
The Beyonder handled Rachel. A phoenix avatar and a weak one at that. NOT the Phoenix Force. BIG DIFFERENCE BOY!!
The Beyonder gave Rachel the power he witnessed Jean as the original avatar manifesting. He went to take it back. Expecting just that what he gave her he was shocked to see the power he had gave her was augmented and he got an insight into what the phoenix force itself is about and what Rachel is connected to. The Beyonder who had humbled LT and so on was brought to his knees just from gaining a glimpse of what the Phoenix Force itself is about. Phoenixes power grows along a geometric curve the more they use their power. Rachel never really tapped into hers until her battle with Necrom waaay after the Beyonder was defeated and retconned. Rachel was the weakest of the avatars and far from her potential. If Jean as Phoenix of the White Crown faced him she would handle him.
"Beyonder has powers SEVERAL times that of the multiverse meaning that even TOAA would not be able to handle the original Beyonder thus He was reconned."
Mider that was just idiotic. Really really stupid. Ive lost all respect for your opinion on these forums. You know NOTHING. TOAA is GOD. How the hell r you gonna try and say the beyonder could beat him? 🙄
Originally posted by leonidas
<<Living Universes? Nope>>i don't know. do universes in dc have embodying entities, or abstracts? i'm sure they do, but i can't think of them off-hand.
<<precrisis spectre basically WAS LT" nope Spectre is and always has been powered by God>>
well . . . you're right! and spectre STILL couldn't win! but i don't get why you've suddenly HELPED my argument. god permeates the MULTIVERSE. are you saying LT is greater than god???
Eternity is like a living universe, anti-Monitor eat universes (universe can't fight back in DC only people in it)
As for Spectre powered by god doesn't help you? Why because spectre alone didn't beat Anti-monitor, and if God wants to beat Anti-Monitor he can do it with ease.
Spectre is never full powered or giving great power.
Full power how do we know if he is full power
He couldn't handle Parallax, I heard Fate defeated him, He didn't have power over criminals 🙁 , so using Spectre = LT is BS spectre is not LT or close to it.
LT already has all the power he needs to keep the multiverse in check.
Galacitstorm save the fancy speeches for others who are actually intimidated by you the PF has been defeated more then one get over it and live with it i really like Thanos but you dont see me saying Thanos could destroy the Mulitiverse by Himself i also like Dr Strange but im not sure if His powers can do that and who you calling boy punk your ramblings are seneless and not once do you ever find anything to back them up the PF is multiversal so what? In every universe there is an Eternity doesnt that make Eternity multiversal in every universe there is death and Order, And Chaos doesnt that make them multiversal it should its only logical your war of words means nothing to me im not here for war of words im here for war of facts my spelling may be bad but thats no excuse for you being a prick witch you are Now Jean gray is a weak avatar? And to think you were saying she was the ultimate just a few posts ago and full wrath of what, a nobody like you? Oh my i tremble in fear a shred of the PF powers BOY The Spectre is also an agent of The Presance and thus at full power should rival even the LT and the PF if what you claim is even true The Spectre at full power is equal to the LT oh and a full powered Spectre scared the shit out of Parallax and when dealing with very powerful villains has shown even greater powers only angels like Archangel Micheal and Lucifer Morningstar can defeat The Spectre at full power. So once again BOY stfu and just stick to the post not your worthless and araggent statments.
The original Beyonder handled Pheonix apperently your fanboyish has made you insane or just plain crazy or stuipd im sure you probably fit into all three of those not listen carefully BOY ive owned Secret Wars II for years and ive seen the battle between The Beyonder and PF He OWNED HER totally and utterly and i guess your PF force doesnt know what avatars to choose since it choose a weak one like the one you said i guess the PF is foolish like you BOY The Original Beyonder was more powerful then hundreds of multiversal PF's
Originally posted by Mider
Galacitstorm save the fancy speeches for others who are actually intimidated by you the PF has been defeated more then one get over it and live with it i really like Thanos but you dont see me saying Thanos could destroy the Mulitiverse by Himself i also like Dr Strange but im not sure if His powers can do that and who you calling boy punk your ramblings are seneless and not once do you ever find anything to back them up the PF is multiversal so what? In every universe there is an Eternity doesnt that make Eternity multiversal in every universe there is death and Order, And Chaos doesnt that make them multiversal it should its only logical your war of words means nothing to me im not here for war of words im here for war of facts my spelling may be bad but thats no excuse for you being a prick witch you are Now Jean gray is a weak avatar? And to think you were saying she was the ultimate just a few posts ago and full wrath of what, a nobody like you? Oh my i tremble in fear a shred of the PF powers BOY The Spectre is also an agent of The Presance and thus at full power should rival even the LT and the PF if what you claim is even true The Spectre at full power is equal to the LT oh and a full powered Spectre scared the shit out of Parallax and when dealing with very powerful villains has shown even greater powers only angels like Archangel Micheal and Lucifer Morningstar can defeat The Spectre at full power. So once again BOY stfu and just stick to the post not your worthless and araggent statments.
"i really like Thanos but you dont see me saying Thanos could destroy the Mulitiverse by Himself i also like Dr Strange but im not sure if His powers can do that "
No. Because it would be ridiculously stupid for you to say either of them could take over the multiverse under their own power. The fact that you're not even entirely certain if Strange alone can speaks a lot for your comic book knowledge. 🙄
"your ramblings are seneless and not once do you ever find anything to back them up the PF is multiversal so what? In every universe there is an Eternity doesnt that make Eternity multiversal in every universe there is death and Order, And Chaos doesnt that make them multiversal it "
By saying LT and Phoenix are multiversal entities im saying that their power extends over the entire multiverse and unlike beings like eternity and galactus who have alternate reality versions of themselves in each and every universe there is only one phoenix force who has avatars acting on its behalf in every universe. Just like there is only one LT.
I think the concepts in marvel comics are waaay over your head son. Stick to richie rich 😉
"Jean gray is a weak avatar?"
BOY you really dont read posts properly do you? Here i go having to school your illiterate ass once again. I have not stated anywhere on this thread that jean is a weak avatar. I said Rachel was the weak avatar. Jean is the top avatar you fool. 🙄
" The Spectre is also an agent of The Presance and thus at full power should rival even the LT and the PF if what you claim is even true The Spectre at full power is equal to the LT oh and a full powered Spectre scared the shit out of Parallax and when dealing with very powerful villains has shown even greater powers only angels like Archangel Micheal and Lucifer Morningstar can defeat The Spectre at full power. So once again BOY stfu and just stick to the post not your worthless and araggent statments."
Boy what the hell are you waffling about? I cant understand a word of this garbage. When did i mention anything about the Spectre? Take your a*se back to elementary.
Originally posted by Mider
The original Beyonder handled Pheonix apperently your fanboyish has made you insane or just plain crazy or stuipd im sure you probably fit into all three of those not listen carefully BOY ive owned Secret Wars II for years and ive seen the battle between The Beyonder and PF He OWNED HER totally and utterly and i guess your PF force doesnt know what avatars to choose since it choose a weak one like the one you said i guess the PF is foolish like you BOY The Original Beyonder was more powerful then hundreds of multiversal PF's
Mider i have read your posts before and ive witnessed your arguments with other posters such as Lord S. At first i felt sorry for you. But now im involved in a debate with your retarded self i understand exactlywhere they were coming from.
GET THIS INTO YOUR SKULL. THE BEYONDER NEVER BATTLED THE PHOENIX FORCE. HE BATTLED PHOENIX 2 WHICH WAS RACHEL.
SHE DOESNT HAVE AS SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP WITH THE PHOENIX AS HER MOTHER THEREFORE SHE CAN NOT DRAW ON AS MUCH POWER.
SHE ALSO FOUND OUT THAT WHEN SHE DREW ON HER PHOENIX POWERS IT AFFECTED HER MEMORIES SO SHE NEVERFULLY TAPPED INTO HER POWERS UNTIL HER BATTLE WITH NECROM WHICH WAS WAAAAY AFTER THE BEYONDER AFFAIR.
THE BEYONDER TOOK OUT RACHEL WHICH IS FAIR ENOUGH. SO WHAT? HE COULDNT TAKE OUT HER MOTHER JEAN AS PHOENIX OF THE WHITE CROWN YOU FOOL. LOOK WHAT HAPPENED WHEN BEYONDER GOT AN INSIGHT INTO THE FORCE BEHIND RACHEL AND JEANS POWERS. HE FELL TO THE GROUND AND WAS HUMBLED. RACHEL WIELDED A MINUTE FRACTION OF THIS FORCE AND WAS STILL AMAZINGLY POWERFUL.
JEAN AS THE TOP OF THE PHOENIX HIERARCHY CAN DRAW ON AS MUCH OF THE POWER AS SHE NEEDS TO SAFEGUARD EXISTENCE. SHE WOULD F**K UP THE BEYONDER YOU SILLY CHILD. THE FORCE ITSELF IS SUGGESTED TO BE AN INCARNATION OF TOAA BUT ITS KNOWN THAT ITS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CREATION OF ALL THAT IS. GET THAT INTO YOUR HEAD. ALLLLL THAT IS. ALL THE ALTERNATE REALITY VERSIONS OF GALACTUS AND ETERNITY ETC. THE FORCE ITSELF IS SECOND ONLY TO TOAA.
SO WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU GOING ON ABOUT. ? THE PHOENIX SHOULDN'T CHOOSE SUCH WEAK AVATARS. PSSSSH 🙄
That statement in itself shows your lack of knowledge of the phoenix and all your posts show your lack of knowledge about all things Marvel in general. Your just a pest on these forums. Your posts are dreaded.
hmm, i'm sensing some hostility around here . . . and we were having such a fun debate.
as far the scan kg - to me, that implies that the problem as not yet REACHED the multiverse, hence the scan is showing a meeting of LT and the universal dieties. as far as death being multiversal - never really thought of it, but it makes sense. death sounds more like the opposite of the phoenix force from what gs says, then of eternity, so that may well make it multiversal. other eternities HAVE been shown to exist in 'what if' universes (what if korvac lived, for one and i can't think of the other, but it was more recent) so it is clear that eternity at least is NOT a multiversal entity. i'm sure eternity is not the only cosmic to appear in 'what if' books, i just can't think of any others. i'm sure more than just eternity was in that korvac issue, but i can't seem to find that book.
and gs, phoenix is clearly among your faves. why on earth would you like a character that can't be defeated? personally, i've always had an immense dislike of the phoenix force. it ruins stories BECAUSE it cannot be defeated. if as you say the crown can use whatever power is needed to combat any threat, then theoretically there should never BE a threat! anything that becomes large enough in the PF's eyes, will smply be destroyed by PF. kind of a ridiculous safeguard, isn't it?
Originally posted by leonidas
hmm, i'm sensing some hostility around here . . . and we were having such a fun debate.as far the scan kg - to me, that implies that the problem as not yet REACHED the multiverse, hence the scan is showing a meeting of LT and the universal dieties. as far as death being multiversal - never really thought of it, but it makes sense. death sounds more like the opposite of the phoenix force from what gs says, then of eternity, so that may well make it multiversal. other eternities HAVE been shown to exist in 'what if' universes (what if korvac lived, for one and i can't think of the other, but it was more recent) so it is clear that eternity at least is NOT a multiversal entity. i'm sure eternity is not the only cosmic to appear in 'what if' books, i just can't think of any others. i'm sure more than just eternity was in that korvac issue, but i can't seem to find that book.
and gs, phoenix is clearly among your faves. why on earth would you like a character that can't be defeated? personally, i've always had an immense dislike of the phoenix force. it ruins stories BECAUSE it cannot be defeated. if as you say the crown can use whatever power is needed to combat any threat, then theoretically there should never BE a threat! anything that becomes large enough in the PF's eyes, will smply be destroyed by PF. kind of a ridiculous safeguard, isn't it?
Id consider that a brilliant safeguard lol.
Anyway you're right. Eternity isnt a multiversal entity. However i know for a fact that Phoenix and LT definitely are. As for Death im not so sure because she/it sure as hell got handled by Thanos with Infinity Gauntlet and im sure that gives you ultimate power within a single universe only. As it is the phoenix force embodies both eternity and death. It creates life therefore making deaths existence possible in the first place.
As for the hostility in this thread you can see where and who it all stemmed from 🙄
The same source has been responsible for numerous other arguments on other threads. I think its the combination of illiteracy, quite apparent lack of comic book knowledge yet a big insistence that they actually know what the hell theyre talking about. Thats what really bugs people on here 🙄
"anything that becomes large enough in the PF's eyes, will smply be destroyed by PF. kind of a ridiculous safeguard, isn't it?"
Yet there are still threats in the multiverse which we can read about because of how the phoenix works. Remember the avatars survey existence from the white hot room and can see possible outcomes. Thats how they know when to enter our plane of existence to carry out their phoenix duties. The force never got involved in the Infinity wars or in The End possibly cause it foresaw how it was going to play out and so its intervention wasnt required. So thats why there still are threats to the universe. Also avatars can be defeated temporarily. Jean has had her physical body destroyed on numerous occassions however she can never die.
Originally posted by leonidas
hmm, i'm sensing some hostility around here . . . and we were having such a fun debate.as far the scan kg - to me, that implies that the problem as not yet REACHED the multiverse, hence the scan is showing a meeting of LT and the universal dieties. as far as death being multiversal - never really thought of it, but it makes sense. death sounds more like the opposite of the phoenix force from what gs says, then of eternity, so that may well make it multiversal. other eternities HAVE been shown to exist in 'what if' universes (what if korvac lived, for one and i can't think of the other, but it was more recent) so it is clear that eternity at least is NOT a multiversal entity. i'm sure eternity is not the only cosmic to appear in 'what if' books, i just can't think of any others. i'm sure more than just eternity was in that korvac issue, but i can't seem to find that book.
and gs, phoenix is clearly among your faves. why on earth would you like a character that can't be defeated? personally, i've always had an immense dislike of the phoenix force. it ruins stories BECAUSE it cannot be defeated. if as you say the crown can use whatever power is needed to combat any threat, then theoretically there should never BE a threat! anything that becomes large enough in the PF's eyes, will smply be destroyed by PF. kind of a ridiculous safeguard, isn't it?
Death is multiversal
IG owned Death so its power is also MultiVersal
HOTU is also multiversal
Marvel has serious issues with its hierarchy.
As for the phoenix force different writer have different ideas about it.
In endsong she is just an entity like death.
Anti-Monitor is a anti-Universe he is no match for LT
Originally posted by Mider
Galacticstorm PF would lose to the Anti-Monitor just live with it He has the power to destroy a multiverse that that inculdes the MU get over the sad fact stuipd ass PF fanboy.
You silly child. Why must you put yourself through this. Arent you tired of getting owned on every thread you enter? 🙄 oh well.
Let the schooling commence:
Anti-Monitor is basically a rogue eternity in the DC universe who went around eating other universes to add to his power. Very powerful i agree.
The phoenix force created the entire Marvel multiverse. The AM is just a being who went around destroying DC's one. The power to create is a lot greater than the power to destroy. Please let that point penetrate your skull.
The AM is far below the power hierarchy than the force is. It exists outside of the time/space continuum that AM is a part of. While AM is a part of the multiverse doing his plundering from the inside. The phoenix force and its avatars are on the outside surveying all of existence and holding universes in their hands as if they are nothing.
If she wished to all Jean would have to do is telekinetically rewrite time (as in New Xmen) and AM would be rendered non existent. He is a part of the universe. The multiverse courses through her and she is beyond it at the same time.
I know ive hurt your pride by owning you so severely but you know im right Mider so dont worry about it mate. Everyone else can see that as well. That is why you are the only one arguing. There, there. We all have to lose sometimes. 🙁
<<Death is multiversal>>
perhaps, but more likely its the 'concept' that is multiversal. i'm almost positive death has appeared in a 'what if book' somewhere - maybe that same korvac issue where the ultimate nullifier is used at the end. i was also speculating on the IG. based on its origins, it seems to me the wielder was given power over everything in just the wielder's universe. guess it's impossible to know for sure. unless a 'what if thanos won the infinity war' comic comes out . . .
<<IG owned Death so its power is also MultiVersal>>
see above.
<<HOTU is also multiversal>>
from what i've read, it sounds like it is. if that's the case, then again, it (or its wielder) could probably stop AM. i've said all along that only mulitversal beings (hotu, PF, LT) would be able to battle/defeat him in a one on one fight.
<<Marvel has serious issues with its hierarchy.>>
you ain't kiddin'!
<<Yet there are still threats in the multiverse which we can read about because of how the phoenix works. Remember the avatars survey existence from the white hot room and can see possible outcomes. Thats how they know when to enter our plane of existence to carry out their phoenix duties. The force never got involved in the Infinity wars or in The End possibly cause it foresaw how it was going to play out and so its intervention wasnt required.>>
this is a contradiction, gs. first you say there are still threats possible then say the avatars can predict teh outcomes of events. so . . . if it's not a threat, they don't bother to intervene (ie infinity war). following that reasoning then, the infinity war never really WAS a threat! if it had been deemed as such, PF would have intervened and stopped it. you also say the avatars can be beaten, but that doesn't matter either because jean, (she has the crown, right?) could just enter and deal with the problem apparently (and i have trouble believing this) to the point where she could actually RESTRUCTURE the mulitiverse!!??
back to my original point - i can't STAND the PF! how could there EVER be a true cosmic threat if it's just waiting to rear up and destroy the offender? and if it DOES NOT appear, obviously the threat is NOT a true threat and will be dealt with by whomever is dealing with it. the PF is a pointless force if it truly is as powerful as you say. of course, maybe it's NOT as powerful as you think . . .