Originally posted by Deano
really? i saw him take a few defenders on last night. much too quick for them
He got barged over at just about every run he made, Deano.
That's what people confuse. His asset is pace, he BEATS defenders TO the ball if they aren't determined. He can't beat people WITH the ball like a true, great footballer.
-AC
jesus, id hate to be nichlas bendtner right now. that was the funniest thing ive seen in a football game in a long time.
yeah ac, whatever man. you're pretty good at arguing with people on the internet i must say. completely ignore what the other person says, then insult them. now go shoot yourself.
eboue really cemented in my mind in the game today what ive thought about him for some time. i just cant believe wenger keeps starting him. diaby, hell even toure would have done a better job, all eboue does is give the ball away. the one time he did his job and won the ball tonight, he gave it right back to them.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
He got barged over at just about every run he made, Deano.That's what people confuse. His asset is pace, he BEATS defenders TO the ball if they aren't determined. He can't beat people WITH the ball like a true, great footballer.
-AC
barged over yeh. thats called a foul.
he can beat players. he does it every week when he is running through everybody. do you edit out the footage in your mind or something?
so if he cant beat players(he can) then he cant be considered a true great? strange
Originally posted by Deano
barged over yeh. thats called a foul.he can beat players. he does it every week when he is running through everybody. do you edit out the footage in your mind or something?
so if he cant beat players(he can) then he cant be considered a true great? strange
Did you watch Roma? He would have been blown over by wind if he thought he'd got a free kick for it. Most of his runs were cut off by simple, legal pressure.
He can't beat players with the ball in any great way. He's never gonna pick it up from near the half way line, beat multiple men and thwack a goal in. He's not that good.
-AC
he went over because he got fouled. you talk about him going over easy..yeh he does sometimes but so does every player if it helps the team get a freekick.
ive seen him time and time again pick the ball up just inside his own half and run all the way to the oppononts box and get off a shot. he is that good. the only time he doesnt take it past everyone is when he gets deliberatly fouled (most the time)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pSjsUCqxehc
i call that beating players in a fantastic skillful way, and then the opposition getting annoyed and chopping him down. like every game
hes not that good? i seem to remember exactly what you just described happening last year at fulham in the 85th minute to win the game. i thought you watched every football game ever played ac? did you miss that one or just choose to ignore that that happened as well?
seriously ac, you need to get over your little internet ego man. im sure it feels really good to say anger therapist 20 times, but i really dont know where you're getting it from. it is possible when in a conversation with someone to occasionally swear when you want to punctuate a point you're trying to make. but im sure you know that, of course.
they do suck man utds dick though, i just watched the sky sports airing of the man u roma game. anderson shoots 30 feet high and wide and the commentator quicky blurts out "its not his forte, he'll improve" before he can even think. i didnt know it was that bad.
Phat J, we all know what you "seem to remember" about Ronaldo and his "games". Either debate me or don't, but don't say you've had enough with me and then sit there focused on me from the palm of my hand.
Either address me or don't, it's really sad.
Oh, and I "seem to remember" a game against Derby where he had chance after chance, on a plate. This supposed ultimate weapon. Oh, he took a chance. An off-the-shin-scuffed chance, mind you. Though, isn't that like shooting a gun in someone's face five times and then on the sixth try, it working, and saying "F*cking best gun ever."?
Originally posted by Deano
he went over because he got fouled. you talk about him going over easy..yeh he does sometimes but so does every player if it helps the team get a freekick.
It was pressure that he couldn't handle, it wasn't a contact barge. It was his marker running with him, him losing out and then falling to the ground, arms up, with the "But I'm Ronaldo, ref!" look on his face.
Originally posted by Deano
ive seen him time and time again pick the ball up just inside his own half and run all the way to the oppononts box and get off a shot. he is that good. the only time he doesnt take it past everyone is when he gets deliberatly fouled (most the time)http://youtube.com/watch?v=pSjsUCqxehc
i call that beating players in a fantastic skillful way, and then the opposition getting annoyed and chopping him down. like every game
Deliberatly fouled? If you want a player who gets deliberatly fouled all the time look at Makelele, Hleb etc. Why just a few hours ago Hleb made a mockery of Liverpool's defense and they had to bring him down by force. Of course, no penalty was given, as expected (Arsenal haters must be getting pissed at the amount of factual wrong decisions going against Arsenal).
And when have you seen this? That video? That proves my point, actually.
First off, he runs in advance of a man that's miles off him anyway. He doesn't even go past the first man, he stops and the man goes past him. He goes past ONE man and then trips over. How is this an example of him pulling off something like Messi did against Getafe? Maradona against England? George Weah against Verona? Van Persie against Blackburn? Even Giggs against Arsenal? You're being ludicrous. He wasn't even fast enough to get ahead of the first man coming to him in the video, who then over-run it. You picked just about the single worst example, and I'm sure people will agree. You even used the plural; "Players". He beat A man.
His asset as a player is to use his pace to get places first, like Walcott, like Lennon (Although he's Ronaldo is better), like Owen back in the day. He isn't about beating lots of men, because that's not what he is good at, or capable of. Not right now, anyway. These could be aspects to his game that he develops, and then I can agree with you, until then, no. To suggest otherwise is delusional.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
[B]It was pressure that he couldn't handle, it wasn't a contact barge. It was his marker running with him, him losing out and then falling to the ground, arms up, with the "But I'm Ronaldo, ref!" look on his face.
pressure yes, some of it fair, most of it illegal.
Deliberatly fouled? If you want a player who gets deliberatly fouled all the time look at Makelele, Hleb etc. Why just a few hours ago Hleb made a mockery of Liverpool's defense and they had to bring him down by force. Of course, no penalty was given, as expected (Arsenal haters must be getting pissed at the amount of factual wrong decisions going against Arsenal).
im not talking about helb..im talking about ronaldo. ronaldo is actually the 4th most fouled player in the premiership. the only reason he isnt the msot fouled is because he has the ability to ride most of the challenges.
And when have you seen this? That video? That proves my point, actually.
ive see it everytime he plays.
First off, he runs in advance of a man that's miles off him anyway. He doesn't even go past the first man, he stops and the man goes past him. He goes past ONE man and then trips over. How is this an example of him pulling off something like Messi did against Getafe? Maradona against England? George Weah against Verona? Van Persie against Blackburn? Even Giggs against Arsenal? You're being ludicrous. He wasn't even fast enough to get ahead of the first man coming to him in the video, who then over-run it. You picked just about the single worst example, and I'm sure people will agree. You even used the plural; "Players". He beat A man.
im not trying to compare him to messi though, you are. im not trying to say he is better than messi at taking on players. i think messi is better at that. but if you want to play the compare game, i could you a few attributes ronaldo is better than messi at. thats not the point though. you seem unable to grasp that ronaldo has been the premierships best player this season.
His asset as a player is to use his pace to get places first, like Walcott, like Lennon (Although he's Ronaldo is better), like Owen back in the day. He isn't about beating lots of men, because that's not what he is good at, or capable of. Not right now, anyway. These could be aspects to his game that he develops, and then I can agree with you, until then, no. To suggest otherwise is delusional.
yeh he uses his pace to get to places first. but he can also take players on easily. i dunno why you think differently. maybe he is not as consistant as messi but he has other attributes in his locker to make him just as dangerous as messi or kaka, if not more.
Originally posted by Deano
pressure yes, some of it fair, most of it illegal.
Based on what? When did running beside a man, trying to get the ball, become illegal?
Serious question.
Originally posted by Deano
im not talking about helb..im talking about ronaldo. ronaldo is actually the 4th most fouled player in the premiership. the only reason he isnt the msot fouled is because he has the ability to ride most of the challenges.
You mean he has had the most referring decisions go for him.
Lots of people dive and get free kicks, or go over easily.
Originally posted by Deano
ive see it everytime he plays.
Anyone can say that, but I question what you "see", Deano.
If that video was you "seeing" him beat playERS skillfully, then you're being silly. He beat A man, then tripped over.
Originally posted by Deano
im not trying to compare him to messi though, you are. im not trying to say he is better than messi at taking on players. i think messi is better at that. but if you want to play the compare game, i could you a few attributes ronaldo is better than messi at. thats not the point though. you seem unable to grasp that ronaldo has been the premierships best player this season.
Because I don't agree. This is like when you went on a campaign of calling everyone an idiot for not agreeing that Peter Crouch was "factually" one of the Prem's best players.
I'm not even saying he isn't one of, I'm saying he's not THE. He's the best goalscorer, sure.
Originally posted by Deano
yeh he uses his pace to get to places first. but he can also take players on easily. i dunno why you think differently. maybe he is not as consistant as messi but he has other attributes in his locker to make him just as dangerous as messi or kaka, if not more.
I think differently because he doesn't do it, Deano.
It's no good saying "He has it in his locker.".
Like I said, it's gonna be the new Rooney or Gerrard. Many, many months of giving him massive credit for what he can PRESUMABLY do, but hasn't ACTUALLY done. Smelled it coming from a mile away.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Phat J, we all know what you "seem to remember" about Ronaldo and his "games". Either debate me or don't, but don't say you've had enough with me and then sit there focused on me from the palm of my hand.Either address me or don't, it's really sad.
Oh, and I "seem to remember" a game against Derby where he had chance after chance, on a plate. This supposed ultimate weapon. Oh, he took a chance. An off-the-shin-scuffed chance, mind you. Though, isn't that like shooting a gun in someone's face five times and then on the sixth try, it working, and saying "F*cking best gun ever."?
It was pressure that he couldn't handle, it wasn't a contact barge. It was his marker running with him, him losing out and then falling to the ground, arms up, with the "But I'm Ronaldo, ref!" look on his face.
Deliberatly fouled? If you want a player who gets deliberatly fouled all the time look at Makelele, Hleb etc. Why just a few hours ago Hleb made a mockery of Liverpool's defense and they had to bring him down by force. Of course, no penalty was given, as expected (Arsenal haters must be getting pissed at the amount of factual wrong decisions going against Arsenal).
And when have you seen this? That video? That proves my point, actually.
First off, he runs in advance of a man that's miles off him anyway. He doesn't even go past the first man, he stops and the man goes past him. He goes past ONE man and then trips over. How is this an example of him pulling off something like Messi did against Getafe? Maradona against England? George Weah against Verona? Van Persie against Blackburn? Even Giggs against Arsenal? You're being ludicrous. He wasn't even fast enough to get ahead of the first man coming to him in the video, who then over-run it. You picked just about the single worst example, and I'm sure people will agree. You even used the plural; "Players". He beat A man.
His asset as a player is to use his pace to get places first, like Walcott, like Lennon (Although he's Ronaldo is better), like Owen back in the day. He isn't about beating lots of men, because that's not what he is good at, or capable of. Not right now, anyway. These could be aspects to his game that he develops, and then I can agree with you, until then, no. To suggest otherwise is delusional.
-AC
sorry, did i miss something? at what point did i say ive had enough? did you actually just bust out the word debate when all you've been doing is shit talking me then avoiding talking about everything ive said?
no ones saying hes the best ever, you're completely missing the point. you're saying he cant do shit, im bringing up examples of him doing it, and you're calling me names.
to not put ronaldo among the top 5 people that get deliberately fouled game in game out in the premiership is actually pretty ridiculous. hleb is definitely up there with them and that was an amazing run and a penalty, but that doesnt erase the fact that people go after ronaldo, even if he sells it to the referee.
this is how this argument started. you were all upset and went on a little rant about how manchester united didnt deserve to be in the position they're in and how the whole world is against arsenal. this pretty much sums it up: oh newcastle tried harder against arsenal than they did manchester united, they dont deserve it, pout pout pout. i called you on it, you got upset.
and man, he can take people on, i really dont know why you're denying that. alright, hes not doing it this season as much as he has in the past and hes not as good at it as messi, but to completely write off that it has never happened because he doesnt take on the whole team, beat them all, then score every game he plays is just plain stupid.
were you joking with krunk'd or did you really mean that you think eboue is any good? id like to see someone debate that point.
who does everybody think has been the premierships best player this season? can you guess who i think it is? lol
Originally posted by Phat J
just like i said, insult me, completely ignore what i said then insult me some more. do you think you're being clever or something?sorry, did i miss something? at what point did i say ive had enough? did you actually just bust out the word debate when all you've been doing is shit talking me then avoiding talking about everything ive said?
Phat J, honestly, I wasn't trying to insult you. I just think it's remarkably childish to make the definitive claim of "I've had enough." or whatever it was you said (And have said SO many times about me), yet remain here to have a pop. Either don't address me, or do. You've said it many times before during our encounters on KMC. The hip hop thread for one.
You are the one who got pissed off and decided the debate was no longer something you wished to partake in without using abuse.
Originally posted by Phat J
no ones saying hes the best ever, you're completely missing the point. you're saying he cant do shit, im bringing up examples of him doing it, and you're calling me names.
I've called you names? The most I've said besides "You're getting stressed." (Fact) was that I've called you is a poser. You've said much more, much worse.
I'm not saying he can't do shit, I'm saying he can't do what people here are claiming he can do.
Originally posted by Phat J
to not put ronaldo among the top 5 people that get deliberately fouled game in game out in the premiership is actually pretty ridiculous. hleb is definitely up there with them and that was an amazing run and a penalty, but that doesnt erase the fact that people go after ronaldo, even if he sells it to the referee.
When you sell it you lose credibility and sympathy, that's how it goes. I felt the same about Jose Antonio Reyes when he played for Arsenal. He did nothing but slow us down. He went from getting fouled a lot to faking it a lot.
Originally posted by Phat J
this is how this argument started. you were all upset and went on a little rant about how manchester united didnt deserve to be in the position they're in and how the whole world is against arsenal.
Did I? I said they've obviously done enough, technically, to be where they are, I just don't think they have played the best football that would earn them THAT side of the "They deserved it." claim.
You were the one who freaked out because I was frustrating you. Not me.
The funny part is, Fabregas says "We are hated.", Krunk'd posts that article, mocking him. Just proves his point. People do have bias toward Arsenal. Not as bad as some Arsenal fans would claim, but the decisions that go against them are often game changing. You can't deny that, and you can't deny it's often.
Originally posted by Phat J
this pretty much sums it up: oh newcastle tried harder against arsenal than they did manchester united, they dont deserve it, pout pout pout. i called you on it, you got upset.
Then I proved my point with examples and you hid behind your imagined idea of how United demolish the teams they play, rather than accepting the possibility of what I was suggesting.
The facts are there. When teams focus on defending, Man Utd either win with a scrappy goal, or don't win at all. Tottenham, A.C. Milan (Who gave a masterclass on how to make Ronaldo nothing more than an extra man), Derby, Arsenal, Man City, West Ham.
Originally posted by Phat J
and man, he can take people on, i really dont know why you're denying that. alright, hes not doing it this season as much as he has in the past and hes not as good at it as messi, but to completely write off that it has never happened because he doesnt take on the whole team, beat them all, then score every game he plays is just plain stupid.
Where did I say "Every game"? Don't try to make my claims seem ridiculous just so you've got something to counter.
My only argument was, there are players who do that, do it more often and have potential to become better at doing it. Ronaldo doesn't, as proven in Deano's video. He goes over at the slightest touch.
Originally posted by Phat J
were you joking with krunk'd or did you really mean that you think eboue is any good? id like to see someone debate that point.
I was serious. You're in no position to call people out on judging players' ability Mr. "Park is as good as Rosicky".
Originally posted by Phat J
who does everybody think has been the premierships best player this season? can you guess who i think it is? lol
Hleb, for me.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
[B]Based on what? When did running beside a man, trying to get the ball, become illegal?Serious question.
your right, it isnt illegal.
So here's another question
So when did running beside a man, trying to get the ball, fails, and then kicks out at the player in anger, become legal?
e.g 'the pizzaro tackle'
You mean he has had the most referring decisions go for him.Lots of people dive and get free kicks, or go over easily.
The descisions go for him because he is constantly being fouled.
Anyone can say that, but I question what you "see", Deano.If that video was you "seeing" him beat playERS skillfully, then you're being silly. He beat A man, then tripped over.[/qoute]
we both see it, but we look at it differently.
And he beat a couple of men in that video, and then got tripped over...he didnt trip over. you seem to take evidence of footage and edit it to suit your argument.
[quote]Because I don't agree. This is like when you went on a campaign of calling everyone an idiot for not agreeing that Peter Crouch was "factually" one of the Prem's best players.
i never said he was one of the best players. i was merely pointing out that he wasnt 'shit', whatever your definition of that word is.
I'm not even saying he isn't one of, I'm saying he's not THE. He's the best goalscorer, sure.
He does more than score though. His quickness in counter attacks brings much to the side, and plus his assists to other players are high. He brings style and pace to a manchester united side who look an half decent without him. He is an inspiration for them. You have to look at what effect he has on the team and not just on a individual level
I think differently because he doesn't do it, Deano.It's no good saying "He has it in his locker.".
Like I said, it's gonna be the new Rooney or Gerrard. Many, many months of giving him massive credit for what he can PRESUMABLY do, but hasn't ACTUALLY done. Smelled it coming from a mile away.
i dont get what you mean when you say the new rooney or gerrard. its nto as if they have stopped playing class. gerrard and rooney have had excellent seasons again.
Ronaldo has done more that what is asked of him this season, and then some. What has ronaldo failed to do may i ask?