Football (Soccer)

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
They have no wingers.

Although to actually answer the question, probably because it fills up some column inches.

Wengers system doesn´t play with wingers as far as I can see, thats why they limited in their options in many areas.

I wonder who will buy Kaka after his remarks about wanting to play in the PL someday, hopefully Liverpool can get him to replace the the "Liverhool" 🙂 if he goes down.

As soon as teams play Arsenal, they put out maximum effort. Anyone else can wait.

-AC

You wish, you don´t need maximum effort to beat Arsenal, just a bit of destructive play and close physical marking.

Wow. That was probably the stupidest observation I've heard. Wenger's system has always worked with wingers. Ever heard of Overmars? Pires? Ljungberg?

Originally posted by Bicnarok
You wish, you don´t need maximum effort to beat Arsenal, just a bit of destructive play and close physical marking.

No, Martin O'Neill pretty much said it.

Teams psychologically now go out and hassle Arsenal, and that's fine if that's how they wanna play, and it's Arsenal's fault for not hassling back, but when playing against another team, they don't play as rigidly.

Villa possible exceptions.

-AC

thats why arsenal need a centre midfielder and centre back. somebody who can put it about. they are all pretty boys at arsenal

and martin o neill is a slag

Originally posted by Deano
thats why arsenal need a centre midfielder and centre back. somebody who can put it about. they are all pretty boys at arsenal

and martin o neill is a slag

So now it has come to needing someone ugly.

I think Arsene Wenger knows what Arsenal need or what to do, Deano. When you have such successes and historically unsurpassed glories in your C.V., perhaps criticise his choices then.

-AC

Originally posted by Bicnarok
Wengers system doesn´t play with wingers as far as I can see, thats why they limited in their options in many areas.

Not traditional ones. However it's a semantic point as I meant wide players, all of whom are injured.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So now it has come to needing someone ugly.

I think Arsene Wenger knows what Arsenal need or what to do, Deano. When you have such successes and historically unsurpassed glories in your C.V., perhaps criticise his choices then.

-AC

get with the times ac, you cant just rely on youth and pretty football, you need a bit of fight. that is why arsene wenger is not winning anything now. back when he was winning the premierleague he had a mix of youth and experience. sol campbell, patrick vieira and henry was a superb spine and they knew how to battle. and then they had pires and llungberg for experience. arsenal havent got that now. they just have very young players who are struggling.

no one is perfect ac,,not even arsene wenger. his past glorys are respected. but thats all it is..past.

Originally posted by Deano
get with the times ac, you cant just rely on youth and pretty football, you need a bit of fight. that is why arsene wenger is not winning anything now. back when he was winning the premierleague he had a mix of youth and experience. sol campbell, patrick vieira and henry was a superb spine and they knew how to battle. and then they had pires and llungberg for experience. arsenal havent got that now. they just have very young players who are struggling.

no one is perfect ac,,not even arsene wenger. his past glorys are respected. but thats all it is..past.

What's your point? Yes, that's why he was successful and Arsenal don't have that now. You think this has somehow escaped him, though?

Everything we see and know about Arsenal, he is aware of and knows more. That's pretty much fact. We're not seeing shit he is unware of, Deano.

He needs to work toward having a team, like then, where injuries could be compensated by bring on a quality sub. If Bergkamp was injured, there was Pires or Ljungberg. He's working toward it, obviously, through a mixture of youth and spending now and then on people like Nasri.

My point is that he knows what we know, he's not unaware of things we're aware of. He's a manager.

-AC

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Like Newcastle on Sunday.

so, newcastle played out of their skins against man united earlier in the season..they cant do it every game.

you're just reading more into than whats actually there.

It's not though. Newcastle sat back and let Liverpool pound them. Against Arsenal teams will never, ever do that. What they seem not to have cottoned on to is that such a strategy does in fact work against any team, not just Arsenal.

like i said, they did it against man united and earned a draw.

every team man united have played this season have played them hard. you dont see me blaming the world man, thats just what happens when you're successful or play good football.

theres a million things that go on in a club that arent about the other team. the timing of a fixture, the attitude or atmostphere going on before the game. its not always about arsenal, sometimes a team just doesnt show up for a game.

I repeat. It is, though.

It doesn't matter who you blame about what. Teams consistently play in a particular way against Arsenal that they don't against other teams, mainly due to the media saturation of the idea. It doesn't mean teams don't pressure other teams. It just means that's the only way- barring the better teams- teams play Arsenal. Aston Villa were running around like crazy men in both Arsenal games. They didn't do that against Liverpool or Man Utd, they just played well enough to get a draw.

It's not a matter of blame. It's like everyone saying the best way to reply to you on here is to call you a ****, and then when you can't get any discussion going, us saying it's your problem.

I've lost count of the number of times 'kick them' has been advanced as an Arsenal-specific strategy.

i have noticed that pundits like throwin that in there.

alright, next time someone plays like crap against arsenal ill say i told you so.

Nobody is saying teams don't play shit against Arsenal, or that Arsenal are never just better. It's not about how Arsenal play, it's about other teams.

Though you're still missing the actual point, somehow.

If teams played against all big teams the way they MORE COMMONLY AND ALMOST ALWAYS play against Arsenal, they would find themselves on the end of a trouncing far less often.

That's a fact.

Watch the video of Walcott making a mockery of Liverpool. This was AFTER Eduardo and the commentator is still saying; "I think Aurelio can foul him, be prepared to take yellow and stop the attack at all costs.". At all costs? Broken leg? Ended career?

When did Rooney, Gerrard or Terry last suffer injuries akin to that of Arsenal? People let them play their football more than they do against Arsenal.

The more the media say a team is unstoppable or hard to deal with, the more it affects players against them. Nobody ever concocts stories of Rooney saying Tevez is a c*nt. When Ronaldo and Rooney had that altercation at the World Cup, it was over in a matter of weeks. People still go on about Bendtner/Adebayor.

When Arsenal were top until March, people kept saying THEY had all the work to do. When it's Man Utd, "Teams have got to play catch up.".

You don't see it as much cos you're not from England, but it's not all lies and conspiracy.

-AC

i dont watch every arsenal game, you may be right. i do however watch every man united game and teams dont let themselves get walked over on a regular basis.

professional fouls exist, its very naive to think it only happens to arsenal. someones on a breakaway in england, its foul them at all cost. thats just the way they play.

the way arsenal play is more conducive to their players getting fouled. its possession football basically. even then i could argue that man united gets fouled more or as often an arsenal. theres probably some stats backing that up somewhere if you care enough to look for them.

tevez has had some stories written about him, as has ronaldo. shit about them saying they're not happy with the club or the players. they have to make statements on the site sometimes its so bad.

i would think they dont say it about man united because more often than not in the last 15 years they've go on to win it.

Originally posted by Phat J
i dont watch every arsenal game, you may be right. i do however watch every man united game and teams dont let themselves get walked over on a regular basis.

professional fouls exist, its very naive to think it only happens to arsenal. someones on a breakaway in england, its foul them at all cost. thats just the way they play.

Funny, because if anyone did that to United, they'd never score a goal. They attack with three people and for some reason teams always leave them three on two or three on one. If they were getting fouled on breaks or defended properly, it'd be a different story.

Originally posted by Phat J
the way arsenal play is more conducive to their players getting fouled. its possession football basically. even then i could argue that man united gets fouled more or as often an arsenal. theres probably some stats backing that up somewhere if you care enough to look for them.

tevez has had some stories written about him, as has ronaldo. shit about them saying they're not happy with the club or the players. they have to make statements on the site sometimes its so bad.

It's not so much about the fouling as it is the style of play. If people decide that they way they'll play against Arsenal is to run their socks off and hassle us, then fine, that's fair. Just...do it to everyone. Only now are Man Utd scoring less goals because people aren't being as stupid as they always have been. It took Ronaldo being gifted a better part of his 40 goals for them to realise that.

Ronaldo brought those stories on himself, he didn't come out and quell the drama.

No matter how many times Fabregas says he's not going to Barca, it keeps coming up. It kept happening to Henry.

-AC

im sorry but you sound like you're whining.

why even say people dont foul united? thats retarded. "the only team that gets professionally fouled is arsenal, everybody hates us and lets man united walk all over them." that is how you sound to me right now.

have you seen united play this season? its been 11 players behind the ball defending for 90 minutes almost every game. zero break away goals man, seriously. it has been very boring to watch.

so, they still write the stories. im pretty sure fabregas brought it on himself as well anyways. just in the past couple months theres been reports with quotes from tevez saying hes pissed off sitting on the bench and blah blah blah and he had to come out and make a statement disregarding it.

we're bickering to eachother now man, lets move on. arguing with you guys is like running a ****ing marathon.

just in case you take it the wrong way, im not upset, i just swore.

Originally posted by Phat J
im sorry but you sound like you're whining.

why even say people dont foul united? thats retarded. "the only team that gets professionally fouled is arsenal, everybody hates us and lets man united walk all over them." that is how you sound to me right now.

Why do to me what you do to everyone?

I never once said Man Utd never get fouled. You said it happens to Arsenal because they are lethal on the break and in possession, that's why they get fouled a lot. I said that if Man Utd got fouled and pressured to stop them playing (The latter being fair) as much as Arsenal did, they'd not score or dominate like they did last season. Because last season, teams seemingly forgot how to defend, and there were points in every game where Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez would be storming toward two defenders and a Newcastle goalkeeper. Whereas if it were Arsenal, Van Persie would probably think "Wait, how did I end up at a barcode factory?".

Originally posted by Phat J
have you seen united play this season? its been 11 players behind the ball defending for 90 minutes almost every game. zero break away goals man, seriously. it has been very boring to watch.

I've been watching Man Utd play football longer than you, I've actually been to games they've played in, so I'd suggest critiquing someone else's knowledge of them.

Yes, and do you realise how long it has taken teams to realise that? You proved my point. That's what it's like this season. For the preceding million seasons it hasn't been that way. I have no issue with teams pressuring Arsenal fairly, they owe us nothing. If we can't win without being allowed to play how we ideally want to, perhaps we don't deserve to. That's never been my argument.

My point is that if they're gonna do it to us, do it to every team. Teams are more "up" for Arsenal because the media have made Arsenal seem like the only one of the top four that is able to have that done against them, and it's not the case is it? Arsenal have beaten all their closest rivals except Liverpool, who they arguably should have beat and still outplayed even with 10 men. They're no more vulnerable, ability wise in 90 minutes.

The media just makes teams feel they can go and whoop, or hold a team. Finally teams are slowly starting to do it elsewhere, but it has taken a massive amount of time for this to happen.

Originally posted by Phat J
so, they still write them. im pretty sure fabregas brought it on himself as well anyways. just in the past couple months theres been reports with quotes from tevez saying hes pissed off sitting on the bench and blah blah blah and he had to come out and make a statement disregarding it.

1) What basis do you have that he started it? He said he admires Barca. This has been embellished into, "He wants to join Hleb.", Hleb: "Yeah, he says he'd love it here." (Which Hleb has never really said, just that he would keep suggesting it to him), "Lack of silverware means Fabregas isn't happy.".

He has continually had to come out and squash these rumours, but again, if you think the media isn't having a mental influence, then you're forgiven slightly, because you don't live here, but it happens. Henry left because Wenger knew he wasn't mentally there and had given all he could, but I still have doubts that he'd have been as unhappy if the press didn't continually hound him.

2) Yeah, and then what? When was the last you heard of it? That rumour is "Has the deal been signed or not?". It's genuinely questioning journalism. It's not continual repetition of squashed rumours.

It doesn't matter how bad Barca want Fab, if he says he isn't going, they need to leave it. The more they continually force him to think about how they're on fire and Arsenal aren't, the more he is probably going to want to leave, despite loving this club and wanting to earn a championship, as opposed to going to Barca and being gifted one.

Every time Arsenal underperform, the media are rallying around calling it a crisis. I'll call it disasterous by Arsenal's standards if we finish outside the top 4, and even then it's not exactly definite that we won't get back.

This is precisely it, fifth in January is a crisis to the media. We were top by three or four points last March/April. As VVD said in a prior discussion, so what?

That's the wonder of a new season; if you do win, so what? The champs have a couple of months to enjoy it and then it means f*ck all, cos they've gotta retain it again. If you don't win, so what? Arsenal nearly lost fourth to Spurs, of all teams. That was when we still had a lot of the players people say we miss. The closest we've come to winning the league was last March.

The media are just quick to do certain things when it comes to Arsenal.

-AC

Alpha Centauri

I make you spot on about media influence in football. As a West Ham supporter I've been discusted with the way the tabloid media has basically transfer listed our best players. It looks like they're doing the same to Fabregas, even though whenever I see him interviewed on telly, he comes across as being more than happy at Arsenal. These so called journalists are just lazy hacks.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Why do to me what you do to everyone?

I never once said Man Utd never get fouled. You said it happens to Arsenal because they are lethal on the break and in possession, that's why they get fouled a lot. I said that if Man Utd got fouled and pressured to stop them playing (The latter being fair) as much as Arsenal did, they'd not score or dominate like they did last season. Because last season, teams seemingly forgot how to defend, and there were points in every game where Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez would be storming toward two defenders and a Newcastle goalkeeper. Whereas if it were Arsenal, Van Persie would probably think "Wait, how did I end up at a barcode factory?".

I've been watching Man Utd play football longer than you, I've actually been to games they've played in, so I'd suggest critiquing someone else's knowledge of them.

Yes, and do you realise how long it has taken teams to realise that? You proved my point. That's what it's like this season. For the preceding million seasons it hasn't been that way. I have no issue with teams pressuring Arsenal fairly, they owe us nothing. If we can't win without being allowed to play how we ideally want to, perhaps we don't deserve to. That's never been my argument.

My point is that if they're gonna do it to us, do it to every team. Teams are more "up" for Arsenal because the media have made Arsenal seem like the only one of the top four that is able to have that done against them, and it's not the case is it? Arsenal have beaten all their closest rivals except Liverpool, who they arguably should have beat and still outplayed even with 10 men. They're no more vulnerable, ability wise in 90 minutes.

The media just makes teams feel they can go and whoop, or hold a team. Finally teams are slowly starting to do it elsewhere, but it has taken a massive amount of time for this to happen.

1) What basis do you have that he started it? He said he admires Barca. This has been embellished into, "He wants to join Hleb.", Hleb: "Yeah, he says he'd love it here." (Which Hleb has never really said, just that he would keep suggesting it to him), "Lack of silverware means Fabregas isn't happy.".

He has continually had to come out and squash these rumours, but again, if you think the media isn't having a mental influence, then you're forgiven slightly, because you don't live here, but it happens. Henry left because Wenger knew he wasn't mentally there and had given all he could, but I still have doubts that he'd have been as unhappy if the press didn't continually hound him.

2) Yeah, and then what? When was the last you heard of it? That rumour is "Has the deal been signed or not?". It's genuinely questioning journalism. It's not continual repetition of squashed rumours.

It doesn't matter how bad Barca want Fab, if he says he isn't going, they need to leave it. The more they continually force him to think about how they're on fire and Arsenal aren't, the more he is probably going to want to leave, despite loving this club and wanting to earn a championship, as opposed to going to Barca and being gifted one.

Every time Arsenal underperform, the media are rallying around calling it a crisis. I'll call it disasterous by Arsenal's standards if we finish outside the top 4, and even then it's not exactly definite that we won't get back.

This is precisely it, fifth in January is a crisis to the media. We were top by three or four points last March/April. As VVD said in a prior discussion, so what?

That's the wonder of a new season; if you do win, so what? The champs have a couple of months to enjoy it and then it means f*ck all, cos they've gotta retain it again. If you don't win, so what? Arsenal nearly lost fourth to Spurs, of all teams. That was when we still had a lot of the players people say we miss. The closest we've come to winning the league was last March.

The media are just quick to do certain things when it comes to Arsenal.

-AC [/B]

Wow thats a long post.