Plagueis, I understand your point of course. Palps does in fact survive longer then any of them, so I guess I can give you some room when you say that he won. But seriously, we are talking about those two LIGHTSABER duels, not the game of deceiving the jedi and ruling the galaxy. In my opinion, Mace and Yoda both beat him in their duels. If Anakin didn't interfere, Palps would of died right there. And if Palps didn't have the entire republic army to protect him, Yoda would have hunted him down and finished what he started in the senate room. Yoda is stronger, and he could win in a one on one fight.
The ONLY reason Yoda went into exile, is because he is smart. He knows that he can own palps one on one. He also knows that he will NEVER get another one on one fight, because palps would never allow it. He will have infinite protection from him because he knows he would lose. The second Yoda fell too far down that chamber, it was all over for the jedi.
But if Yoda could have gone back the next day, and palps gave him another one on one fight, the OT's wouldn't make any sense, because Yoda would hand palps his ass in a rematch.
And from what I can tell, this has spawned a lot immature banter. Guys, listen.
Yoda did NOT own Palpatine. Palpatine did NOT own Yoda.
Yoda survived the fight with Palpatine. And in the same turn, neither Mace nor Yoda stopped him from taking over the galaxy. They were EVENLY matched.
Some of you all are just die-hard Yoda and Mace fans. Others are die hard Palpatine fans.
It's bad on both parts.
The entire point of The Revenge of The Sith is nearly the same for the Return of The Jedi. In Revenge of The Sith - The Sith win. It was the point of the movie. No happy endings. Mace is killed. Yoda is put in exile. Palpatine takes over.
Now, fastforward 20 years, Palpatine is killed, Vader is killed, and Luke revives the Jedi Order.
See? It's mirror images. The point of the movie was to signify that at this point in time, The Sith have won.
Ya but there is still saber duels to judge. I have no doubt what so ever that palps is EXTREMELY powerful. Who else could mask their identity for so long, and manipulate millions of people into doing what he wants. He can even mask himself from thousands of Jedi's trained in seeing the future, and reading people. Palps is mega powerful man.
BUT.... in combat, he's just good, but not godly. Mace beat him hands down, I thought anyone could see that. And Yoda did draw him, but the way I saw it, was that Yoda proved that Palps could never beat him. He took everything and smiled. But palps did not take all yoda's shit. He didn't get the chance to dish it to palps because he got a bad break with that fall. Nothing more, bad luck for him.
Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is that although palps is extremely powerful in the force, his strengths aren't suited for combat. He is more suited for manipulation and gaining power over the galaxy through deception. Some Sith lords are deadly fighters, some aren't. Palps isn't a warrior, he's a dictator.
That statement is perhaps the only one in this thread I can possibly agree with. I don't like it when people say either one. Palpatine is my favorite character, but I am unbiased. Neither of them won.
But...
When Palpatine threw the Senate pods at Yoda, he had to scramble to dodge them. Yoda threw ONE back. And Palpatine barely dodged it as well.
Regardless, Palpatine won in Revenge of The Sith. The entire prequels are based on the conflicts brought on by his manipulations.
Now I say he won in Revenge of The Sith. Not in the end or in the entire series. Evil eventually loses. But the thing I like about the Star Wars movies, and what some people have a hard time believing, villains are there to be problems. Threats. Not annoyances. Palpatine was a threat in which no Jedi could stop.
Well...not till Return of The Jedi.
Vanquished, I don't believe Yoda took all of Palpatine's power. If memory serves, Palpatine electrocuted Yoda and sent him flying across the room to smack into a wall.
And do remember, Palpatine has the annoying habit of slowly raising his hands before using Force lightning. This should've given Yoda a little thought.
"hmm...he's raising his hands slowly. So he's either gonna flip me off or shoot that irritating force lightning at me."
In Force powers, Palpatine is the greater, in my belief. He could see into the future much more accurately than Yoda (otherwise Yoda would've seen all what Palpatine had planned). He lifted two pods simultaneously, whereas Yoda had to use all of his energy to stop one.
I'm sure you'll all see that George Lucas directed Revenge of The Sith to ensure that the Jedi did NOT win in ANY sense. That was the point. The Sith get their Revenge. They win. Palpatine created his Empire. The Jedi were exterminated.
And the troopers showed up only AFTER Yoda left.
I've yet to see a truly unbiased recap of what happened. Even my own reaks a little of Palpatine-favoritism. So let me try to say this:
Yoda - VERY powerful. Arguably the most powerful and easily the wisest Jedi Master in the Star Wars universe. He is 900 years old - and his connection with the Force still keeps him strong. Yoda not only is wise, but is an EXCELLENT duelist. He trained Count Dooku and Mace Windu. (by the way, on Mace's bio on the Star Wars website, it says that only two duelists have ever bested mace. Yoda and Dooku. Look for yourself under the Expanded Universe section of Mace's bio on Star Wars.com.)
Palpatine - VERY powerful. From what I have seen, there are more people who diss Palpatine than those who diss Yoda. Guys. Come off it. Stop acting so blind. BOTH are powerful, alright? Yoda survived in Episode three and so does Palpatine. Palpatine is EASILY Yoda's equal in The Force. Palpatine is actually better when it comes to using The Force. In lightsabre skills, Palpatine and Yoda are very nearly equal. Enough where Yoda can NOT own Palpatine or vice versa.
So try to act a little mature, people. If you were to ask George Lucas if Palpatine was powerful, he'd probably say "hell yes". The same for Yoda. Neither of them, are in anyway, weak. Neither of them. Palpatine did NOT own Yoda (otherwise Yoda would've died). Yoda did NOT own Palpatine (otherwise Palpatine would've died).
And as for the whole Palpatine-needed-Anakin. Here's what I see. Palpatine could have easily defeated Anakin in Revenge of The Sith. Palpatine could have easily defeated Obi-Wan in Revenge of The Sith. Anakin was needed for a singular purpose. Obviously, it would look rather questionable to the public to see Palpatine (who is The Chancellor, mind you, and a public figure) to go to the Jedi Temple and slaughter them all (he killed three Jedi Masters in less than five seconds, so I am sure he could do it if necessary).
Palpatine needed to look like a politician - still. No one other than Anakin and Mas Ameda knew that he was trained in the Force. He couldn't let the public know he was a Sith Lord.
Now. Fast forward 20 years. In Return of The Jedi. Vader is only 80 percent as strong as The Emperor (George Lucas CONFIRMED this in a Vanity Fair interview). The Emperor was OWNING Luke with Force lightning. Vader snuck up behind Palpatine and threw him down the reactor core. But he was mortally wounded by Palpatine in the process.
Besides. After he served his purpose, Palpatine would've probably had Anakin killed off anyway. Treachery is the way of the Sith.
Now. I see no way in hell you can offer me proof to deny all that I said. If you do have proof in specific areas where Yoda OWNED Palpatine or vice versa, please let me know. I enjoyed shooting down the little tantrums of the Palpatine-die hards and the Yoda die-hards.
Get over it. Both rule. Both rock. The mighty Jedi Master and the powerful Sith Lord. They fought. Neither won. Both lived.
Obviously, George wanted to keep this as a metaphor. Considering none of them were mortally wounded and both lived, I THINK he wanted to portray them both as equal.
Yoda is BETTER with the force than Palps , make that clear in your mind "dark side fan" , the only fact that palps win is that is a lucky bastard and a smart politician who's all planificated ( the born of the clones and the rise Ani/Vader ) to not loose what he deserves ...
He knows that he would be easly killed if he'd tried to make the empire alone ... he is a smart guy , only that ...
Dark Plageuis would have been more powerfull than him and maybe equal than yoda or mace , but his smart brain told him to kill him to be the only sith , " the more powerfull "
Dark side fan, I agree with most of what you said. Although I do feel the Yoda would win the duel if it went the distance. I don't think Yoda OWNED palps, but I do think he beat him. Ya in actual fact it was an even draw. Neither really hurt the other at any time. But I feel that Yoda displayed that he can't be killed, where as palps seemed a little vulnerable to me. If somehow Yoda could have taken the duel into a closed room, Yoda would OWN him. He was far superior in saber fighting. I'll agree with you that palps is at least as strong as Yoda in force fighting though. Only because Yoda can't use his full power because he is a Jedi, but still, they are equal. But Yoda is much faster with a saber.
The arena was the only thing that made it a draw in my opinion. In the senate room, it was a draw. In a closed doors room, Yoda would pwn him and his little pick stick lightsaber he has 🙂
Originally posted by Vanquish
Dark side fan, I agree with most of what you said. Although I do feel the Yoda would win the duel if it went the distance. I don't think Yoda OWNED palps, but I do think he beat him. Ya in actual fact it was an even draw. Neither really hurt the other at any time. But I feel that Yoda displayed that he can't be killed, where as palps seemed a little vulnerable to me. If somehow Yoda could have taken the duel into a closed room, Yoda would OWN him. He was far superior in saber fighting. I'll agree with you that palps is at least as strong as Yoda in force fighting though. Only because Yoda can't use his full power because he is a Jedi, but still, they are equal. But Yoda is much faster with a saber.The arena was the only thing that made it a draw in my opinion. In the senate room, it was a draw. In a closed doors room, Yoda would pwn him and his little pick stick lightsaber he has 🙂
Don't agree. Sidious was as good as Yoda in duel saber and Sidious proved superior to Yoda in the Force imo.
Just at the beginning Sidious could have kill Yoda anytime after he was struck by the lightning. Yoda crashed in the wall and fall unconscious. Then in the senate, Sidious had shown a much convincing ability in the force than Yoda. Sidious seems, a lot of time to underestimate Yoda though, by laughing and doing funny gestures things. Still he proved superior in the force. As for Saber it was a draw and for my part, never i feel Sidious at risk or vulnerable to Yoda. I would say it was however a draw at tactical level but a clear victory at strategic level for Sidious.
btw Yoda isn't faster but since he's small compare to Sidious he have to jump a lot of time to fight at his level; Sidious unlike Dooku tracked him all the time showing that this time he was fighting a much more powerful Sith Lord than before.
Also Sidious wasn't running from Yoda, both can sense they were very strong in the force but Sidious did not want to fight Yoda not because he was afraid but as said previously by someone in this thread; did not want to possibly loose his new Empire he has for so long trying to have; thus it is understable.