Muhammad Ali or Bruce Lee?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Experts= People who have prolly never even been in a ring.

Have you..?

I have and I must thank you for your indirect compliment that I in your eyes have therefore more expertness over the most knowledgeble and experienced in boxing training and history merely because I have stepped over the ropes. : 🙄

Seriously. If they are recognised experts it'll be they probably have been in the ring.

Ali is considered one such expert. He was an also an expert who reckons he would have killed Lee in the ring.
(And given that Ali would be more dangerous outside the ring unrestricted by what he can and can't do... It along with his proven durability, speed and power and proven fight-winning metality looks good for Ali..... Do you know how many people have died in Street fights from smashing their heads falling to the pavement after being knocked out...?

Regardless of size of actual numbers: More than those that died of flashy flying roundhouse kicks to the head.

-And a jab and a couple of decent rapid hooks and/or uppercuts from a fighter/boxer like Ali and its would be all over for the much smaller Lee.)

So if i've been in a ring it makes me more an expert than someone who hasn't?

According to RJ... 😂

So by his logic we were qualified experts in Martial Arts the moment we learned our 1st katas, messing around with our buds in backyards when we were like 8 after being inspired by 'Way of the Dragon' - in equivalence. 😛

Really though... The experts who are reconised as so mostly have got in even for a spar or two at some point.

Doesn't mean you magically become one the seconds you climb in the ropes though..... 😛 Tonnes of other factors would be the qualifying points.

Well I've participated in several martial arts tourneys, some fights I win some I lose and some I get disqualified for breaking someone's nose... That makes me more knowledable? hmm well to get back on subject and to catch up, Bare knuckle would be faster and more lethal. Ummm it's proven that leg sweeps are ineffective. Going for the knees is low..... by all standards...only a coward attacks the knees. and if it's a fight to the death by all means...Ali would win.

There ya go. That why I couldn't understand his POV on that.

But the fact that you have also paired your personal (more advanced than the given example) experience in the tounaments, with a good knowledge of history of the fighters and their forms and therefore of the likely potential realities involved is what qualifies as well rounded testimony.

Anyway. RJ didnt name which experts he felt were in error, he pre-emptively tried to discredit a whole bunch of people who held a certain different-from-his opinion as folks he assumed had never parted the ropes ever. Which'd be silly.

Interesting about the broken nose, thats actually one of the many factors that make me think.

Question "Do you think Lee would be ready conditioning-wise for the knid of punishment that Ali'd give out at all in a full contact situation, given the largely non-contact/limited contact nature of the training in martial arts...?". That's a genuine question I ask your opinion on.

A good example for of speed would be football players. Think about it like this.. I weigh 171lbs. A line backer weighs roughly about 230lbs lets say. In a 40 to even a 100 yard dash that line backer would be able to either keep up with me or beat me in a race. they are also trained to be conditioned and in shape.

EDIT: Also, I'm a marine, not a fat one either.....we don't have many of those. So I'm definetly not slow for those of you thinking if i was fat or slow. A 19 minute 3 mile run time is pretty fast in my opinion.

Point I'm trying to make is just because some one is bigger. Doesn't mean they are slower. Doesn't mean they are stronger either. Ali certainly has lee beat in strength. Lee might have him beat slightly on speed. They both have techniques and were experts in their arts. Respectively Ali takes it. All logic points to that. Documents, recorded fights, Visually recorded fights. If any one could give me a resource that wasn't just numbers and unknown fighters that lee has fought that would be great. what i mean by that is. Any recorded videos of lee actually fighting someone in a tourney. That would be nice.

Cool.

Thanks. 🙂

(Edit: Definitely a respectable speed. 🙂 Infact you just gave me a stitch and a heart attack just thinking of that... 😂 )

Yeah I would be watching a proper Lee-fight all day, were a copy to be here.

I didn't see your question so i didn't accurately answer your question. SORRY! Umm NO, Simply because boxers are used to being hit. Ali being hit by guys who weigh 100lbs more then lee, would easily take a hit by lee. All out Ali wins. Being that sparring is light, limited or no contact. In boxing you're getting hit either way.

That was my view too. Thanks for adding. 🙂

The first post though, you raised good points on the conditioning aspects and a good, communicative analogy of the question of speed vs power.

Thanks, though I'm sure there's going to be someone that 's going to argue or disagree with my points. I'll see tomorrow. I'm tired. It's 10:38pm in japan....Night! 😄

Night. 🙂

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Experts= People who have prolly never even been in a ring.

I see, Lee being dead is your line of attack now.

So boxers and people who study boxing fights know nothing... it's what I figured you'd say.

No, I'm not saying Lee is dead, therefore he loses, since this is a hypothetical. You avoided the question yet again, nice tactic. Do you believe all myths about people? Did you see the John Henry link, do you believe all of that?

"When you can whip any man in the world, you never know peace." - Ali

"It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Ali

"I'll beat him so bad he'll need a shoehorn to put his hat on. " - Ali

And "When you are as great as I am it is hard to be humble." - Ali

😛

So by mongy skywalker analogy, the fact that i am a Ju Jitsu blue belt now with previous boxing/thai boxing experience makes me an expert?

Ok!

Ali ftw.

I also read that MMA fighters were labelled as thugs! Again absolute bollocks

Originally posted by Robtard
He's right, you gimp ALi at every ridiculous chance yet are willing to believe every little whim about Lee as fact.

Because he's never fought anyone as big, powerful and experienced as a 3-time world heavy weight champion and the greatest boxer off all time.

Excuse you...Greatest boxer of HIS time. Put Prime Ali in the ring with even a better than average heavyweight nowadays, he would get raped.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Sure. Tucking your chin it and clenching your teeth enables you to be able take chin shots infinitely better than with a open/relaxed jaw, as the sludy slap to the face guy was. Thats definitely when a knock out occurs when it is displaced. Sometime the temple is caught, which can do it to, Ali would be right on top of all this, not being a rank amateur or a complete beginner.

Fact: Ali was never knocked out. Not in all his 70 plus recorded bouts.

Well, I most certainly turned around and got a fist to the face..wasn't really prepared for that shit...however, that doesn't make what you said incorrect by any means.

Jeet Kun Do plays off of what the other person is doing. I would say Lee was one of the best ever at his own style.

I agree that Ali wouldn't be playin' by the ring rules...whoever said that. It makes perfect sense that he would try to throw some elbows and head butts.

I would love to see a skilled martial artist go up against a skilled boxer...I am not talking about the Oklahoma Freestyle martial arts championships that I have been to, either. I am talking a world class boxer going up against a world class martial artist who employ kung fu and Jeet Kun Do. This wouldn't settle it definitively...but we would be a lot closer to a definite conclusion. From what i have see by the amateurs here in OK, the boxers get their asses raped by the amateur martial artists, however, in the boxers defense, they sucked...so it isn't really a good comparison to use in the Ali/Lee match up.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Excuse you...Greatest boxer of HIS time. Put Prime Ali in the ring with even a better than average heavyweight nowadays, he would get raped.

Absolute crap, theres no-one out there 'nowadays' who would stand a chance.

Originally posted by smoker4
Absolute crap, theres no-one out there 'nowadays' who would stand a chance.

tyson in his prime (granted not "nowadays"😉 would have put up a good fight 🙂 just imho

Originally posted by smoker4
Absolute crap, theres no-one out there 'nowadays' who would stand a chance.

That's absolute crap. Stop being a Ali fanboy and get back to reality. Ali was the best in his time, yes. He would he would be an average boxer nowadays....

You mean to tell me that the human body and skill peaked with Ali?

Originally posted by dadudemon
That's absolute crap. Stop being a Ali fanboy and get back to reality. Ali was the best in his time, yes. He would he would be an average boxer nowadays....

You mean to tell me that the human body and skill peaked with Ali?

Why exactly would he only be average now?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Why exactly would he only be average now?

My mistake, above average. He can still move with the best of them. I run the risk of not being objective...but I think Ali moved better than any other in the entire history's sport.

This does NOT carry any weight with the Ali/Lee fight...it is just an aside.

On a side note, this little kid looks like he may be good one day. Maybe he will become the greatest? I am going to be 100% straight up about this and I am not be embarrassed...I was NEVER this good in any practices/workouts...this kid's skills are awesome.

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