Muhammad Ali or Bruce Lee?

Originally posted by StyleTime
I saw a show, Mythbusters?, where they had a wannabe ninja trying to catch arrows out the air. The myth was "busted", but I do think it's hilarious that something of this nature would need to be dispelled. It's so strange that even in the modern era, this notion of East > West is so prevalent in these matters.

And yet you have Henrietta in you sig . . . I guess she's Italian, though.

Originally posted by Dr. Leg Kick
Ali could take out an MMA fighter. These guyz aren't invincible. There's a certain range that you shoot in to take a fighter down, in this case the MMA fighter would need to take down Ali. Even the leg kicks would be too risky due to Ali's speed, and incredible head movement.

Let's take Kevin Randleman vs Chuck Liddell. Beautiful example of two great wrestlers with tons of power in their hands. Randleman having the better credentials in wrestling, could take Liddell down easily if it was just a wrestling match, but getting hit with an overhand or uppercut is something else. If Ali lands one, it's over. And we aren't even considering the fact that Ali won't be wearing his heavy boxing gloves.

I don't even know if Lee's chin has been tested.

Okay, point. I was probably underestimating Ali's speed a great deal. After all he did once fight Superman successfully: http://www.megatonik.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/superman_vs_muhmammad_ali.jpg

I still don't see Ali winning this.

Lee has...what....infinitely more experience in street fights? Not to mention the groundwork he laid for MMA. He wasn't called the father of MMA for shits and giggles.

Now, if you want to see my Ali fanboy come out, we can talk about Ali versus other Boxers and you'll see me get all sorts of delusional and stupid. I just don't like putting boxers against mixed martial artists...especially when the MMA person punches far faster than the boxer. That's just stupid. From what it looks like, Bruce punches harder than Ali, as well.

Sadako and I argued this out for pages. Pretty much everything has bene covered with the Ali's staying the same and me definitely going with Lee after arguing about it for a bit.

Thread is dead.

Originally posted by StyleTime
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic. I do remember you being one of "theeeeeeeem" *points while grimacing* 😘 ,but a lot of people have changed to the correct stance since then. Maybe you are just kidding.

You all like that "them" thing don't ya. I know ya do.

I'm not particularly familiar with professional combat sports. It simply seems to me that a person with broader familiarity in fighting would have a decisive advantage against a person who's experience is simply in boxing. This same argument has come up in threads about MMA, which is why I used that as an example. Obviously no one is invincible but if being a great boxer is all it takes to be at the top why do they not dominate the highest levels of things like the UFC?

Someone earlier said that most street fights go to the ground, this is true. No way we can know how good Ali would be in a ground grapple. Advantage Lee.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
And yet you have Henrietta in you sig . . . I guess she's Italian, though.

Okay, point. I was probably underestimating Ali's speed a great deal. After all he did once fight Superman successfully: http://www.megatonik.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/superman_vs_muhmammad_ali.jpg

Originally posted by dadudemon
I still don't see Ali winning this.

Lee has...what....infinitely more experience in street fights? Not to mention the groundwork he laid for MMA. He wasn't called the father of MMA for shits and giggles.

Now, if you want to see my Ali fanboy come out, we can talk about Ali versus other Boxers and you'll see me get all sorts of delusional and stupid. I just don't like putting boxers against mixed martial artists...especially when the MMA person punches far faster than the boxer. That's just stupid. From what it looks like, Bruce punches harder than Ali, as well.

Sadako and I argued this out for pages. Pretty much everything has bene covered with the Ali's staying the same and me definitely going with Lee after arguing about it for a bit.

Thread is dead.

You're not seeing clearly.

Experience in street fights doesn't hold much water when fighting professionals. Ask Bas Rutten, king of street fighting himself.

Who said he was the father of mixed martial arts? I can see him being the father of eastern martial arts, but entirely? Far from it. But that's not taking anything away from the legends. He was a class of his own.

And as for MMA fighter punches faster than Boxer? You're delusional my friend. I love you, but delusional. Why do you think all these MMA fighters are getting Boxing coaches? Not just for the head movement, the speed training is one of a kind. Actually, not sure what you mean by "that's stupid".

Ali had legitimate fights, Lee had stories. I respect both, both are legends, and the fight can theoretically go either way, but realistically, it's all Ali, and I'm not the biggest boxing fan.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
And yet you have Henrietta in you sig . . . I guess she's Italian, though.

Originally posted by StyleTime
I saw a show, Mythbusters?, where they had a wannabe ninja trying to catch arrows out the air. The myth was "busted", but I do think it's hilarious that something of this nature would need to be dispelled. It's so strange that even in the modern era, this notion of East > West is so prevalent in these matters.

Regardless, Henrietta is awesome. She would be exempt even if I hadn't have stated that. You know this already

Originally posted by dadudemon
I still don't see Ali winning this.

Lee has...what....infinitely more experience in street fights? Not to mention the groundwork he laid for MMA. He wasn't called the father of MMA for shits and giggles.

Now, if you want to see my Ali fanboy come out, we can talk about Ali versus other Boxers and you'll see me get all sorts of delusional and stupid. I just don't like putting boxers against mixed martial artists...especially when the MMA person punches far faster than the boxer. That's just stupid. From what it looks like, Bruce punches harder than Ali, as well.

Thread is dead.

Lee has...what...no verifiable street fights at all? Not to mention he is not regarded as the father of mixed martial arts. (Where the hell did you get that?)

Bruce can't be likened to current mixed martial artists. There is absolutely no evidence he punches harder than Ali.

Thread is very much alive unfortunately.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Someone earlier said that most street fights go to the ground, this is true. No way we can know how good Ali would be in a ground grapple. Advantage Lee.

It's not going to be easy taking Ali down. One punch can end it. And we know for a fact, emphasis on fact, that Ali can KO professional fighters while moving backwards.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I'm not particularly familiar with professional combat sports. It simply seems to me that a person with broader familiarity in fighting would have a decisive advantage against a person who's experience is simply in boxing. This same argument has come up in threads about MMA, which is why I used that as an example. Obviously no one is invincible but if being a great boxer is all it takes to be at the top why do they not dominate the highest levels of things like the UFC?

The problem for Lee is, we simply have to guess at Lee's abilities here. Someone says Bruce can do this. Someone else says Bruce can do this. He's proven basically none of it. Why assume he can beat Ali when has never demonstrated the ability to do so?

And as someone stated earlier, one knee kick, CRACK goes Ali's kneecap, down goes Ali.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Someone earlier said that most street fights go to the ground, this is true. No way we can know how good Ali would be in a ground grapple. Advantage Lee.

Originally posted by StyleTime

In a MMA match or on the streets Ali would still win. You speak of Bruce's submission skills yet he has [B]never once shown us he could apply submissions effectively. I saw his one real fight. His grappling knowledge amounted to a front headlock on an opponent of the same size. A 6 year old can do that.
[/B]

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And as someone stated earlier, one knee kick, CRACK goes Ali's kneecap, down goes Ali.

Oh and I like your sig. It's well done.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Because Lee is Asian people try to give him "magic powers"?

most people I've spoken to don't think it is a matter of magic that causes the sword to cut the gun

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Or do you really expect me to believe that Ali would be able to take out MMA fighters in the primes of their lives?

boxers do better than traditional martial arts (Kung fu, karate, etc) in MMA, but neither do very well against grapplers. So, no, not really

Do you really think bruce lee would be able to fight with any success in a modern MMA ring? I would say Ali is in a better position and would be more comfortable in the scenario though.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I can't think of any way that Ali has an advantage.

lee weighs between 135-145, ali 185-235.

Ali did train against a Muai Thai fighter, who though that his kicks would throw Ali off. Because it is physically impossible to kick faster than punch, Ali was able to easily dodge the blows and end the fight very quickly. This fighter was no Lee, to be sure, but not only is Ali proven in a boxing ring, he has shown his skills to cross disciplines.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Pound for pound Lee was in better shape.

fair enough

I think if the argument were, "who would win, a MMA expert in the same weight class as ali or ali?", the MMA fighter takes it. Does Bruce Lee, of indeterminate fighting skill, take a potentially 100 pound heavier legend of physical combat? I doubt it, highly.

Originally posted by StyleTime
It's so strange that even in the modern era, this notion of East > West is so prevalent in these matters.

indeed. There is a strange "mystique" people seem to unquestioningly accept in discussion about Asian combat

Great Lolz to this thread being revived, one thing hasn't changed, the Bruce Lee fanaticism is still basing their argument on mostly myths, action movies and neat tricks.

i picked ali only to size, reach and weight

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
ali only to size, reach and weight

👆

I don't know if Lee could do enough damage to take Ali out aside from attacking his legs. Ali's endurance was ridiculous. If you look at his fights with Joe Frazier or the Rumble in the Jungle with Foreman (the Rope-A-Dope fight for the ill informed), Ali could take a lot of punishment and last in harsh conditions. There's not enough evidence in the Lee side to say how he'd fair in those situations, but he was a master at his craft, which is why I can't say who I think would win this fight. I was speaking solely on the misconception that Bruce was only an actor in my previous post. Bruce was a master level MA practitioner, he wasn't just a movie star with some martial arts skill. The era he operated in works against him in debates like this because much of what he did is either unknown or word of mouth accounts.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
i picked ali only to size, reach and weight

Skill, punching power and actual fight experience.

Edit: Ali probably has more overall time punching bags too.

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaataaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Originally posted by dadudemon
I still don't see Ali winning this.

Lee has...what....infinitely more experience in street fights? Not to mention the groundwork he laid for MMA. He wasn't called the father of MMA for shits and giggles.

Now, if you want to see my Ali fanboy come out, we can talk about Ali versus other Boxers and you'll see me get all sorts of delusional and stupid. I just don't like putting boxers against mixed martial artists...especially when the MMA person punches far faster than the boxer. That's just stupid. From what it looks like, Bruce punches harder than Ali, as well.

Sadako and I argued this out for pages. Pretty much everything has bene covered with the Ali's staying the same and me definitely going with Lee after arguing about it for a bit.

Thread is dead.

wow...... I can't tell if you're being serious..... MMA person punches far faster than a boxer..... wow.....
I'm sure you know that Ol' Brucey punches harder considering you've been punched by both of them huh?..... Wow.... I'm just saying... Really?

Bruce Lee is undoubtedly faster.

He's smaller and lighter, which equates him having more agility.

And to be able to break bricks, you need speed.

It also equates him with getting knocked out.

And bricks are a bit different from fighting Ali, who would be raining lots of fast, banging punches from covered range and using his equal speed, superior reach, power and combinations to ruin Lee's day.

Ironically it would be like someone battering Lee with metal bricks one after another very quickly and accurately until Lee is asleep/dead.

Plus Ali can beat an asprin.
And asprin whipped Lee's ass.