Muhammad Ali or Bruce Lee?

Honestly I think bruce would hold up well in this fight. Ali has fought and trained for bouts based on rules. Bruce did not. Hell, he said himself, in a real fight, he would go for nut punches, eye gouges, biting, etc. And with quick strikes like these, Bruce would be at an advantage speed wise. He was as fast as light weight boxers and defeated the amateur British champ in his youth. Obviously this is a far cry from Ali, but at least he is familiar with boxing. How familiar is Ali with a well rounded MA? In a ring bout with rules, Ali wins everytime, (size and strength would be near impossible to overcome) but just out of the blue,no holds barred, I think Bruce takes the majority slightly.

Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
When these match-ups are discussed I always go back to something I think Jet Li said about how he'd lose against MMA fighters in a real contest (I couldn't find the quote but it's well known over the net). Now I know Jet Li and Bruce Lee aren't the same but if you factor in that they are similar and that Ali would be a better striker than a MMA fighter I think its a pretty obvious outcome.

Here's a quote from Chuck Liddell:

“You just have to realize that Jet Li is a movie star. He’s great at what he does, but if he stepped into our world, he wouldn’t last long.” - Chuck Liddell

http://www.mmawild.com/ufc/quotes/

Now Chuck is mainly a striker right? So if he can be confident about taking down a highly skilled and flashy fighter like Li then Ali should be able to do the same to Lee. They are both professional fighters who have height, weight advantage and real fighting experience, against... actors who are made to look impressive on screen.

Even this guy says he would 'crush' Jackie Chan, 'murder' Jet Li (gets enigmatic about Bruce Lee though).

Jet Li said that in the making of Cradle 2 the Grave. He is a humble person unlike Chuck Liddell. Chuck liddell also said he could beat Rampage Jackson and Rashad Evans, and how did that turn out?

Also, Chuck was a wrestler before he became good at striking. I agree he is mainly a striker, but what makes him confident against flashy fighters with holds and takedowns is his knowledge of wrestling techniques. I saw a bio on him where he talked about it. He said he actually was told to become a better striker because he was boring.

Originally posted by socool8520
Honestly I think bruce would hold up well in this fight. Ali has fought and trained for bouts based on rules. Bruce did not. Hell, he said himself, in a real fight, he would go for nut punches, eye gouges, biting, etc.

He defeated the amateur British champ in his youth.

No, he didn't. There isn't any proof that Gary Elms, the "boxer" in question, even existed. Needless to say, there is no proof that Lee beat this possibly fictional man.

Also, this thread hasn't been dead nearly long enough to get revived again.

Originally posted by socool8520
Jet Li said that in the making of Cradle 2 the Grave. He is a humble person unlike Chuck Liddell. Chuck liddell also said he could beat Rampage Jackson and Rashad Evans, and how did that turn out?

I just don't see how a man who studied under a revered master, invented a new way of fighting, devoted his life to perfecting fighting strategies that have shaped MMA as we know it, and helped train some of the biggest names in MA at the time, cannot get the benefit of the doubt.

Simply put, Lee's exploits are primarily mythic tales supported by only more myth. There is very little evidence that Lee was an effective fighter.

Lee's instructor was possibly an even bigger myth than Lee was. Crosstraining existed before Lee, and he didn't develop any widely used techniques today. The style he "invented" produced no notable fighters. This whole "he shaped MMA" is something people, especially Lee fans, like to say to add credibility to his image. He also didn't train any "big names" if we're talking about actual fighters.

Originally posted by socool8520
Jet Li said that in the making of Cradle 2 the Grave. He is a humble person unlike Chuck Liddell. Chuck liddell also said he could beat Rampage Jackson and Rashad Evans, and how did that turn out?

Well if he fought Rashad Evans and Rampage Jackson then they would be in his weight category wouldn't they? Much bigger and stronger punchers than Li I would think.

Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
Well if he fought Rashad Evans and Rampage Jackson then they would be in his weight category wouldn't they? Much bigger and stronger punchers than Li I would think.

And you know, two guys who have proved themselves capable of putting what they know and applying it to a real fight.

But they wouldn't be as effective as Lee at making Cat noises and making poses/faces that look good on camera, though. 🙁
How would they be able to convince the unknowing public that that they can fight without such charisma?

And noone decimates a gang of people who wait to go in one at-a-time, and who are invariably fu**ed by one move, cause thats what the script says like Lee does...!

Nobody!

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
But they wouldn't be as effective as Lee at making Cat noises and making poses/faces that look good on camera, though. 🙁

He'd have been making a lot more noise and faces if the Russian from FOF had grabbed his balls for real instead of getting owned.

😄

Or Chuck could have suffocated him with his chest hair in WOTD...

I still like Lee though... entertaining film fighter but not my favourite.

I am going to go with the one whose fighting abilities are actually proven.

I am talking about Ali, by the way.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I am going to go with the one whose fighting abilities are actually proven.

I am talking about Ali, by the way.

Problem I have with that is the criteria of how he fought.

For example take a guy like kimbo slice. In backyard brawls the guy is a monster. But in a mma octagon he was questionable in overall skill... Even with training... So now he fights in a boxing ring.

Some guys are good in one style of fight, other guys are better. You never know in a brawl what each guy may use to his advantage.. Clothing of opponents for better grip, makeshift weapons from nearby furniture, etc.

And honestly after watching UFC tonight a quick kick to the balls will drop a UFC fighter hard.

Yeah but 'Kimbo Slice vs a very fit midget' is an obvious win by KO/Death for Slice.

The shape of the ring/street will not help Lee to not be destroyed almost immediately.

Especially against someone as elusive, fast, big and skilled as Ali.

And again: Ali is not neccessarily at a disadvantage in non-ring rules.

It's a tie (or I have no clue). Bruce had more overall ability and skill, but Ali had (which will be argued) faster hand/maneuvering movement and harder non-concentrated punches. Both had incredible attributes.

I would say that Ali was massively skilled.
Especially when pressure tested in observed combat.

Lee was the more skilled actor, though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw7JuDP0KiY&feature=related

Anyway. In a Box fight surely Ali would stomp, in an all out, do what you want fight, I wouldn't say this for sure. I dunno, Bruce Lee was an MMA Fighter (the first one more ore less) and Ali was the (arguably) greatest Boxer, both stand a good chance.

The was older Ali; past his prime.

That was an exhibition match.

Inoki is literally a giant compared to Lee.

Inoki actually was a proven fighter with a record.

It was meant to show that there are things Boxer can't do shit about to counter them 😉.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9mER2BmNRA

Here, he trained with Bruce Lee btw. A pure Boxer is at an disadvantage against an MMA fighter. Now Ali is bigger and stronger, so it should even the odds 😉.

I'm certain there are plenty of MMA fighters that would wreck Ali, bigger and smaller; Bruce Lee isn't one of them though, considering his lack of actual fight evidence.

Isn't one of them because there is no proof? Well there is no proof what he can or can't do, so we are left with what we prefer to believe. Like or dislike. I go by a draw.

Isn't that's a total cop-out though, because there is proof that Ali was an extremely skilled fighter and could knock-out a man much larger than Lee.

There's no proof that I couldn't curb-stomp both Ali and Lee at the same time; would you say "ok, it's a draw then"?

There is also very compelling evidence that Lee's supposed abilities grew from legends, hearsay and fantasy. It's been covered in here before.