Euro-constitution

Originally posted by Clovie
EXACTLY.
as i said: we are no ready for it.

Originally posted by yerssot
that's why I was hugely against expanding the EU; most of those 10 new countries were just crap and still are that. It weakens the economy, yeah, in umpteen years it would be a great asset to have, but in the mean time, we get the negative sides of it

wait till Romania arrives 😉
*pokes dexx*

romania is arriving...?
i thought bulgaria is 😕

Originally posted by jaden101
😂 thats just total nonsense and you know it...

its the polititians job to explain things to the people who will decide...

you cant ask your people and when they decide they dont like what you want then go and do it anyway

thats like a ruling party losing an election and then saying..."ach...we dont care..we're staying in power anyway"

thats called a dictatorship...not a democracy

shit...you got me....what's so bad aboot dictatorship though?

No seriously now, I agree the French Government can'T just not do what the People said, the thing would have been to NOT ask them. This is not fascist or anything, it is just the right decision, people can never all know what they votge aboot (except for general elections because that is easy) and they often don'T really know what is good for them or there coun try ( even if you want to say that given all the information they could make an intelligent decision, which I highly doubt)

the thing would have been to NOT ask them

which is what 10 coutries have done already

the 12 countries who have decided are as follows

France :no by refurendum
Netherlands: no by refurendum
spain :yes by refurendum
Austria: yes by parlimentary decision
Germany: yes by parlimentary decision
Greece
Hungary
Lativa
Italy
Lithuania
Slovakia
Slovenia

who is getting a refurendum and who isnt can be seen in this image

To hold or not hold something like that is the government its decsion...

They do representt he people so they should be able to decide for them. If they don't want one, then they don't want one.. We have a law here that makes it so that if you have enough signatures you can make the government hold a referendum. Nobody was even collecting for the EU constitution

the represent the people in the year they got elected.
now that they deceide for a referendum or not, those people might not even get re-elected cause the people dislikes them by now for some reason

They were elected for four years... If governments can only make decisions for a year or so they become worthless and they should have elections every year. They don't, The dutch government has four years to earn or destroy the trust of the people. Its their decision to make.

I know, I mean that at the time of the referendum the idea of the people as to who has to represent them can and probably has changed already. So saying that the vote of the public is served through the parliamentary ratification is not entirely true

Originally posted by yerssot
I know, I mean that at the time of the referendum the idea of the people as to who has to represent them can and probably has changed already. So saying that the vote of the public is served through the parliamentary ratification is not entirely true

Well no but thats a problem with democracy in General and has nothing to do with the EU

"Free-market ideologies,called liberal here, aren't considered as logical or natural. That's more a anglo-saxon belief. Here keynesians theories still have echoes..."

That's nonsense! Keynes was a middle-way Liberal which is exactly what the Labour Party in the UK is. It is for backing that sort of policy that the French have rejected it, so in no way are they Keynesian!

And saying that is an anglo-saxon belief is a total myth. Tell that to the tiger economies. Capitalism is what the world defaults to- only the over-regulated western European economies are having trouble with that, and they will have to change soon.

It is probably true that Capitalism was an Anglo Saxon idea, but most other countries adopted it (mostly because it makes the most sense) They might have some socialised BS going on b ut that is not working out (at least not in Germany)

Originally posted by Ushgarak
"Free-market ideologies,called liberal here, aren't considered as logical or natural. That's more a anglo-saxon belief. Here keynesians theories still have echoes..."

That's nonsense! Keynes was a middle-way Liberal which is exactly what the Labour Party in the UK is. It is for backing that sort of policy that the French have rejected it, so in no way are they Keynesian!

And saying that is an anglo-saxon belief is a total myth. Tell that to the tiger economies. Capitalism is what the world defaults to- only the over-regulated western European economies are having trouble with that, and they will have to change soon.

Keynes's theories => Intervention of the State (regulated economy) => No real free-market + high taxes (if the state wants to have something to spend)

New Labour's current policies take free-trade and capitalism for granted; they don't call them into question any more. (that's similar to the Democrats/Republicans opposition :there is no real argument about the economic system/ideology)

Naturally, the absolute free-trade conditions don't exist. So in every capitalist country the deal is to decide to what extent will one favour social welfare and redistribution. In the US for instance,40 Million people get no social welfare at all. Mr Blair didn't undo what Mrs Thatcher did with the railway companies...

Even if the free-trade (liberal) ideology has made its way through the mind of the politicians, there are still lots of people (not politicians) here that would prefer to protect the country (tariffs), to keep many industries in Public sector (Energy, telecoms, transports, education). That is to a great extent opposing the free-market ideology.