You obviously didnt read Thanos: The End THOTU was bate so that TOAA didnt have to die to save the multiverse and thus by allowing Thanos to become TOAA He did die instead of TOAA. Thanos said He tried to absorb everything yet Adam Warlock servived cause He was in a dimension outside the Multiverse.
Originally posted by Mider
You obviously didnt read Thanos: The End THOTU was bate so that TOAA didnt have to die to save the multiverse and thus by allowing Thanos to become TOAA He did die instead of TOAA. Thanos said He tried to absorb everything yet Adam Warlock servived cause He was in a dimension outside the Multiverse.
I didn't read THE END??? Of course I read it... PFFFTT.. PUHLEEEASSEE... Warlock showed up during the Infinity Gauntlet Saga. He was their again for the Infinity Wars, and once again for THE END. I was just pointing out, Warlock with the Heart Of The Universe would have wielded that power better, and from a neutral perspective. Lucifer invading the Marvel Universe will certainly catch the attention of the TOAA, and the shift of power will be noticed throughout the Marvel Universe. If LT cannot expel Lucifer from the Marvel Universe, Warlock with The Heart Of The Universe will. He will step in and restore balance. He will purge Lucifer from the Marvel Universe.
Originally posted by Mider
That made absolutly no sense at all all it proves is that TOAA doesnt have total power over creation witch is the way it should be since there is more then one Multiverse in the Ominiverse with there own TOAA's
Made no sense to you all right. 📖 This battle takes place in the Marvel Universe, and what didn't affect him before, will affect him here. The laws governing his powers in the DC Universe, are different in the Marvel Universe.
<<If LT cannot expel Lucifer from the Marvel Universe, Warlock with The Heart Of The Universe will. He will step in and restore balance. He will purge Lucifer from the Marvel Universe.>>
it's possible. i happen to disagree.
<<The laws governing his powers in the DC Universe, are different in the Marvel Universe.>>
but we need to assume a uniformity for the debate. if lucifer came into marvel, his power would put him above LT (he is the second most powerful being in creation, below god. marvel has no 'god' so we assume toaa to be 'god', so he would be second only to toaa) he was/is god's first and MOST PERFECT creation. he is supreme unto himself SAVE GOD!! hotu is NOT god. it is an aspect of god's power. NOT god, and not wielded by god. and you're trying to tell me some artifact wielded by adam frickin' warlock is going to defeat him?? one thing in creation can defeat lucifer - god. not 'part' of god. not an ASPECT of god's might used by someone NOT god. GOD. lucifer existed in the nothingness before the multiverse, and his fall will come at GOD'S hands when GOD decrees creation is to end. and as much luv as warlock gets on this forum, i don't THINK he's god . . . honestly, it is aborrhent to imagine an artifact able to undo something like lucifer.
<<You can't understand it, it's all good I know it's hard sometimes.>>
BWHAHAHAHAH . . . glad i have you to point these tough concepts out to me though, kg. and i know you can certainly relate to my troubles. considering the fact that you have SEEN, the scans of thor beating the living crap out of glads, have READ and HELD the book where glads ADMITS thor is too tough for him, and STILL refuse to accept thor is superior to glads, well, you'll understand if i'm sort of glad to have you on THEIR side and not mine in any debate . . . and i know, i know, glads beats thor, hotu AND lucifer . . .
heheh.
and yes, it IS all good.
Originally posted by leonidas
BWHAHAHAHAH . . . glad i have you to point these tough concepts out to me though, kg. and i know you can certainly relate to my troubles. considering the fact that you have SEEN, the scans of thor beating the living crap out of glads, have READ and HELD the book where glads ADMITS thor is too tough for him, and STILL refuse to accept thor is superior to glads, well, you'll understand if i'm sort of glad to have you on THEIR side and not mine in any debate . . . and i know, i know, glads beats thor, hotu AND lucifer . . .heheh.
and yes, it IS all good.
Thor, Thor girl and company defeated Gladiator.
And yes Thor can match Gladiator if he chooses to move at 100X light speed. 🙄 read the forum rules.
and what happend before no one interfered? Thor got his ass K.O'ed
Gladiator was never K.O'ed read the end he is standing 🙁
keep trying tho
Originally posted by leonidas
<<If LT cannot expel Lucifer from the Marvel Universe, Warlock with The Heart Of The Universe will. He will step in and restore balance. He will purge Lucifer from the Marvel Universe.>>it's possible. i happen to disagree.
<<The laws governing his powers in the DC Universe, are different in the Marvel Universe.>>
but we need to assume a uniformity for the debate. if lucifer came into marvel, his power would put him above LT (he is the second most powerful being in creation, below god. marvel has no 'god' so we assume toaa to be 'god', so he would be second only to toaa) he was/is god's first and MOST PERFECT creation. he is supreme unto himself SAVE GOD!! hotu is NOT god. it is an aspect of god's power. NOT god, and not wielded by god. and you're trying to tell me some artifact wielded by adam frickin' warlock is going to defeat him?? one thing in creation can defeat lucifer - god. not 'part' of god. not an ASPECT of god's might used by someone NOT god. GOD. lucifer existed in the nothingness before the multiverse, and his fall will come at GOD'S hands when GOD decrees creation is to end. and as much luv as warlock gets on this forum, i don't THINK he's god . . . honestly, it is aborrhent to imagine an artifact able to undo something like lucifer.
I see where your going. Good points. Warlock with THOTU could very well be beneath Lucifer in terms of power and could probably be only stopped by the TOAA. I agree with you. Debates are made to poke holes into other's theories. Then again Warlock with THOTU could be equal in terms of power if comparing him to Lucifer. Lucifer is second to none except the Presence right? If Warlock possessed THOTU he could and is second to none except the TOAA, their powers could very well be similar or even a dead match. Theoretically of course. Lucifer could very well mow through all three guardians and get stopped by the TOAA himself, or he could also have trouble even entering the Marvel Universe with Thanos with the IG barring him from entering. The laws governing Marvel Universe could very well alter Lucifer's powers for better or worse. These are all my theories. It's good to hear someone expressing their own theories as well, instead of saying a couple words like LT stops him... Or Thanos stops him... Your a good debater leonidas. Better than Whirly 😄
Originally posted by Sentry
I see where your going. Good points. Warlock with THOTU could very well be beneath Lucifer in terms of power and could probably be only stopped by the TOAA. I agree with you. Debates are made to poke holes into other's theories. Then again Warlock with THOTU could be equal in terms of power if comparing him to Lucifer. Lucifer is second to none except the Presence right? If Warlock possessed THOTU he could and is second to none except the TOAA, their powers could very well be similar or even a dead match. Theoretically of course. Lucifer could very well mow through all three guardians and get stopped by the TOAA himself, or he could also have trouble even entering the Marvel Universe with Thanos with the IG barring him from entering. The laws governing Marvel Universe could very well alter Lucifer's powers for better or worse. These are all my theories. It's good to hear someone expressing their own theories as well, instead of saying a couple words like LT stops him... Or Thanos stops him... Your a good debater leonidas. Better than Whirly 😄
Lucifer can't even leave him realm without Permission.
Sentry do you read Lucifer comics?
leonidas says HOTU won't effect because Luficer is beyond the multiverse , but guess what Luficer has been effect
<<don't be mad my friend.>>
i rarely get mad. and we've gone back and forth too many times for me to get mad at YOU, especially. i am curious though - as soon as you think GLADIATOR, does 100x lightspeed AUTOMATICALLY come into your head? i'v never said it before but . . . 100x lightspeed is pure, unadulterated bull crapola. if you think you've 'seen' him, or it's been 'shown' that he's moving at 100x lightspeed, man, you're out of your mind. the notion is actually laughable. kind of like 'he can rip a star apart'. ahh, it's good to see your fanboyism is utterly unflappable though . . .
and thanks sentry. leaving aside the notion that he's outside the hotu's governance, he would still be second most powerful behind god, and all my other arguments still stand - even if you don't feel he is justifiably outside the realm of the hotu's influence. (which, as i said, is only theory.)
and your theories are equally well grounded - i said it's POSSIBLE hotu might stop him. the idea that they are equal is also a good (even logical) possibility. there's just something about a simple 'mortal' though, being able to wield 'the power of god' that doesn't sit well with me. so i simply choose to favor lucifer, and i've enumerated the reasons for my belief. agree. disagree. it's a fun debate either way!
🙂
<<Your a good debater leonidas. Better than Whirly>>
thanks, and i'll take that as a real compliment. but go easy on the whirlster, would ya. i mean, did you see that pic of himself he scanned?! poor guy just looks lucky to be alive!
heheh
🙂
Originally posted by leonidas
<<don't be mad my friend.>>i rarely get mad. and we've gone back and forth too many times for me to get mad at YOU, especially. i am curious though - as soon as you think GLADIATOR, does 100x lightspeed AUTOMATICALLY come into your head? i'v never said it before but . . . 100x lightspeed is pure, unadulterated bull crapola. if you think you've 'seen' him, or it's been 'shown' that he's moving at 100x lightspeed, man, you're out of your mind. the notion is actually laughable. kind of like 'he can rip a star apart'. ahh, it's good to see your fanboyism is utterly unflappable though . . .
and thanks sentry. leaving aside the notion that he's outside the hotu's governance, he would still be second most powerful behind god, and all my other arguments still stand - even if you don't feel he is justifiably outside the realm of the hotu's influence. (which, as i said, is only theory.)
and your theories are equally well grounded - i said it's POSSIBLE hotu might stop him. the idea that they are equal is also a good (even logical) possibility. there's just something about a simple 'mortal' though, being able to wield 'the power of god' that doesn't sit well with me. so i simply choose to favor lucifer, and i've enumerated the reasons for my belief. agree. disagree. it's a fun debate either way!
🙂
<<Your a good debater leonidas. Better than Whirly>>
thanks, and i'll take that as a real compliment. but go easy on the whirlster, would ya. i mean, did you see that pic of himself he scanned?! poor guy just looks lucky to be alive!
heheh
🙂
That’s not what you said before.
You said Lucifer might not be affected because he is outside the multiverse? Do you read Luficer comics? He has been affected before it's not a theory or anything it's a fact.
as for Gladiator drop it or go back to Thor vs Gladiator
As for 100X light speed it's been shown he can do it, yes it's stupid but he has done it.
Why doesn't he do it well same reason why Flash get's hit. It's a comic.
Read the forums rules its states that character can use all the shit that they are capable of.
Which mean Gladiator going can be going at 100X light speed knocking his hammer over and over again (forum rule)
As for Lucifer vs HOTU - Hotu has no limit he is the past , the future everything , he is all of God’s creation (not a theory)
So if Lucifer came to Marvel universe wouldn’t he be part of HOTU?
Lucifer does have limits, am not deny his power he is truly second to god
Luficer vs LT is still debatable
HOTU easily defeated LT, Eternity, and death
As for luficer do you read his comics or are you just saying he is beyond and won't be effect?
Because there are limits to his powers
-He can't see the future without (oracle)
-It's said that he can't exist his universe ( domain he rules)
- He has created soul , etc but he couldn't bring someone back to life because he had no power over it. ( not saying he can't bring people to life he can but he has failed before)
- His own power has been used against him
<<That’s not what you said before.>>
read the post. i said, 'setting that argument aside', because clearly you weren't getting that one, so i tried another one.
glads yaddayadda . . . consider it dropped. just wanted to rile you up. mission accomplished.
<<Lucifer does have limits, am not deny his power he is truly second to god>>
yes you are. you're denying it by saying the wielder of the hotu is greater than him. don't contradict yourself. either he IS second most powerful, or he ain't. i say he indeed is.
<<HOTU easily defeated LT, Eternity, and death>>
irrelevent to my position. to me, since hotu is below lucifer, he could do likewise if he chose, though that type of display is NOT something he would do. and you're right, he can't see the future - that is only for god. did it say somewhere thanos could see all the futures? or simply that he destroyed them?
and,
<<As for luficer do you read his comics or are you just saying he is beyond and won't be effect?>>
undeserving of a response.
you'll keep on believing in a ridiculously stupid artifact that any person/thing can pick up and wield and thereby proclaim themselves god, and i'll keep on believing in a character with 2000 years of history. god says lucifer is second only to Him, god decreed only He would/could end lucifer's eventual reign. i'll take the big g's word for it over yours or anyone else's. and with that, i'll consider this particular topic closed. always a pleasure kg.
Originally posted by leonidas
<<That’s not what you said before.>>read the post. i said, 'setting that argument aside', because clearly you weren't getting that one, so i tried another one.
glads yaddayadda . . . consider it dropped. just wanted to rile you up. mission accomplished.
<<Lucifer does have limits, am not deny his power he is truly second to god>>
yes you are. you're denying it by saying the wielder of the hotu is greater than him. don't contradict yourself. either he IS second most powerful, or he ain't. i say he indeed is.
<<HOTU easily defeated LT, Eternity, and death>>
irrelevent to my position. to me, since hotu is below lucifer, he could do likewise if he chose, though that type of display is NOT something he would do. and you're right, he can't see the future - that is only for god. did it say somewhere thanos could see all the futures? or simply that he destroyed them?
and,
<<As for luficer do you read his comics or are you just saying he is beyond and won't be effect?>>
undeserving of a response.
you'll keep on believing in a ridiculously stupid artifact that any person/thing can pick up and wield and thereby proclaim themselves god, and i'll keep on believing in a character with 2000 years of history. god says lucifer is second only to Him, god decreed only He would/could end lucifer's eventual reign. i'll take the big g's word for it over yours or anyone else's. and with that, i'll consider this particular topic closed. always a pleasure kg.
lol sure you didn't read his limit
he is second to God
HOTU = God's power ( he is all there is read the end again if you forget)
look at lucifer's limits he is second to god doesn't make him = HOTU that's just stupid am sorry good try tho
All that proves is that TOAA is shit to The Presance if He expells all His power just by recreating the multiverse then yeah He is not as powerful as the Presance since it takes just two of His Archangels to create a multiverse with out expelling all of there power hell how do you know that if one did manage to create the multiverse He wouldnt expell all of His powers and thus be equal in power to marvels TOAA.
Originally posted by Mider
All that proves is that TOAA is shit to The Presance if He expells all His power just by recreating the multiverse then yeah He is not as powerful as the Presance since it takes just two of His Archangels to create a multiverse with out expelling all of there power hell how do you know that if one did manage to create the multiverse He wouldnt expell all of His powers and thus be equal in power to marvels TOAA.
Since TOAA did create the Marvel multiverse... And it's still around... wouldn't that mean it can do it without too many problems? TOAA has NEVER been shown in a comic, you can't judge its power.
This is to what Mider said, cuz ther have been like 5 posts in between... Seriously, I didn't take really long at all writing this...
And since more has been posted, the Marvel Encyclopedia is officially banned from LT arguments. And Surfer arguments. LT>1 Universe. Surfer's blasts>1 city. GOD!
TOAA was shown in Thanos The End and how do you know it took Him a day to create the multiverse it could very well have taken Him a while while The Presance is so powerful He just tells Archangel Micheal and Lucifer to do it for Him while He sits back and i have seen LT's limits first hand His powers seem to only slightly exceed Eternity's thats all.