Lucifer Morningstar runs the Gauntlet...

okay, so here's 2 fundamental problems we have:

<<Which should make LT = Lucifer>>

and

<<HOTU = God's power ( he is all there is read the end again if you forget)>>

no and no. i said lucifer would need to be given EQUIVALENT status in marvel. that means he ALONE is second. LT gets bumped to third.
and hotu is NOT equal to god. how the hell could THAT be possible?? god would put all his power into something and let any numb-nut like thanos or warlock walk along and grab it so he can be god?? and you said MY idea was stupid?? lucifer is the annointed, decreed second to god. some others have done better at outlining his powers and 'limits' than i have done.

and once again, kg, i shall sleep well in the knowledge that i am on the side of right.

🙂

lol, go read my post again, ur not makin any sense here fromlogic, only sayin how CAN THAT N THIS BE POSSIBLE, i already explained now it IS possible, n TOAA{GOD} , did NOT put all his power into THOTU, TOAA only put the power of ONE SINGULAR multiverse in it, not anythin beyond that and not the beyond realm.{TOAA created the beyond realm}

um, leon, you are you talking to? i'm on YOUR side. my post was meant for kg. i couldn't agree more with what you said. (and i made some of the saem points earlier on in the discussion) you're one of the ones i meant when i said you explained lucifer's abilities better than i did . . .

Originally posted by leonheartmm
lt is not second to TOAA, he max hes done in the marvel multiverse is destroy two or three universes simultaneously, THAS IT, THOTU does NOT give u the power of TOAA, no, it only gives u the power of ONE single multiverse, it has no power over the beyond realm, or ANYTHIN OUTSIDE THE MULTIVERSE, that power was enough to destroy and recreate the multiverse and anything in it, NOT THE BEYOND REALM, lucifer i might remind u has 50% of the power AT ANY given time to creat a multiverse from scratch including all the abstaracts and concepts, AND THAT IS WITHOUT EVEN SLIGHTLY gettin weaker or burning up his power, he can create anothermultiverse right after that one and another one right after that one, and so on, EVEN WHEN HE IS INSIDE THE MULTIVERSE, he is still beyond its laws and isnt a part of the multiverse, THOTU has power enough to create ONE SINGLE MULTIVERSE, and it CANNOT create another one simultaneously, hell it even has to destroy THAT ONE SINGLE multiverse to create another one, lucifer IS NOT bound by that limitation, and actully he CAN CREAT A WHOLE MULTIVERSE WITHOUT MICHEALS HELP, just by killing himself, which will cause the demiurgic explosion and destroy or create
another multiverse, he can then just bring himself back to life just by willing it as death{the endless} has no power over him{n this death is not like marvel's death, it is at omniversal level,}, so that AFECTIVELY puts lucifer above THOTU, i explained this before too, and as far as that thing with fenris goes, that was fenris taking ADVANTAGE of lucifer, fenris is not more powerful than lucifer, he just exploited certain things to take over lucifer, {kinda like galactus was taken advantage of by surfer when he was not payin attention and was defeated}, fenris doesnt have as much power as lucifer, bu he used his cunning, and let me also remind people that the guns given to saint of killers were a creation of god, HELL THEY WERE GIVEN TO HIM BY GOD, BUT he used those same guns to KILL GOD, so that creation of god argument agaisnt lucifer is pretty weak, and lucifer has goten the best of GOD many times, by usin his intelligence.

This is one sentence.

Thanos erased the entire multiverse.

Just how many multiverses are there? This sounds like speculation.

How can Lucifer kill himself? Why would The Presence need a sucessor?

When did the Silver Surfer defeat Galactus?

Originally posted by leonidas
okay, so here's 2 fundamental problems we have:

<<Which should make LT = Lucifer>>

and

<<HOTU = God's power ( he is all there is read the end again if you forget)>>

no and no. i said lucifer would need to be given EQUIVALENT status in marvel. that means he ALONE is second. LT gets bumped to third.
and hotu is NOT equal to god. how the hell could THAT be possible?? god would put all his power into something and let any numb-nut like thanos or warlock walk along and grab it so he can be god?? and you said MY idea was stupid?? lucifer is the annointed, decreed second to god. some others have done better at outlining his powers and 'limits' than i have done.

and once again, kg, i shall sleep well in the knowledge that i am on the side of right.

🙂

He is second to God so he can't be beat.

Nice logic there leo 🙂 lol

go read lucifer vs LT to see both sides.

Originally posted by Synchro
[B]

Err... Corrections: - He can exist in his own multiverse. Why cant he exist in his own turf? He can go in and out of it as much as he wants.

How about no, he can't leave his (universe) multiverse without letter of transit.

[QUOTE]- If a person/being is killed by Lucifer, he can bring it back to life. He cant bring it back if its not killed by him.

- His power was used against him due to sheer numbers and heaps of planning and effort. The Basanos was helped by Susano-O. So basically it was 73 against 1, since The Basanos is a deck of tarot cards and each card houses a powerful being, there are 72 cards in total. Plus they were helped by the strongest God of the Japanese pantheon. But even with that, they still needed prep to defeat Lucifer. And yeah, they suceeded, but do you guys know what happened when Lucifer came back for revenge?

Still happened didn't it? Leo said Lucifer can't be effect well he can that's the only point this is proving

I still fail to see the point here. He battled poweful beings, yes, he also saved the Marvel Universe, yes. But then again when Lucifer tries to trick Warlock there would be no fighting here, theyre simply just gonna talk. So I dont know what would battling Man-Beast, Goddess, etc has something to do with this. And its not like Lucifer will convince him to become evil. He would just talk to him, make him an offer(a tricky offer), thats all. So Warlock expelling good and evil outside his body is irrelevant either.

After all Michel is also =< Lucifer

<<He is second to God so he can't be beat.
Nice logic there leo>>

er, if god is first (and i presume you're not debating this), then . . . wouldn't it necessarily follow that the person who is second in power would not be able to be defeated by anyone BESIDES god? and again, you're confusing the term EQUIVALENT. in dc, he is second most powerful, so, to be equivalent, he would be second most powerful in marvel - hence above LT.

he;s a scenario is see:

thanos is standing in front of lucifer and says - i'm going to destroy you. he blasts him and wipes out all the multiverse. lucifer is still standing there, or perhaps he is turned to dust and reforms himself and says - 'try as you will - god himself created me, and only god hmself can destroy me'. his essence has existed before the mulitverse, and will exist after it is destroyed. perhaps he doesn't have the RAW POWER of the hotu, but as i tried explaining earlier (and shifted arguments because you didn't seem to be getting it, kg), i believe he is outside hotu's purview. in that same regard, LT would hold no power over him. he is SECOND ONLY TO GOD. not second only to god with the exception of LT and wielder of hotu or hotu power. SECOND TO GOD AND GOD ALONE. getting into michael will only cause further debate so i'll leave it at that.

i truly don't see why you are having so much trouble getting that.

Originally posted by leonidas

er, if god is first (and i presume you're not debating this), then . . . wouldn't it necessarily follow that the person who is second in power would not be able to be defeated by anyone BESIDES god? and again, you're confusing the term EQUIVALENT. in dc, he is second most powerful, so, to be equivalent, he would be second most powerful in marvel - hence above LT.

Well in Marvel LT is Second to god? Agree? He is beyond death? Agree?

How was he defeated? Because HOTU was, LT? Agree?

All this is (from the END)

HOTU can't kill Lucifer because he is beyond death, but so is LT.

When is the last time have you seen LT die or defeated? HOTU is the only one.

HOTU didn&#8217;t really kill LT , because LT was HOTU get it? LT can&#8217;t die just like Lucifer

[QUOTE]he;s a scenario is see: thanos is standing in front of lucifer and says - i'm going to destroy you. he blasts him and wipes out all the multiverse. lucifer is still standing there, or perhaps he is turned to dust and reforms himself and says - 'try as you will - god himself created me, and only god hmself can destroy me'. his essence has existed before the mulitverse, and will exist after it is destroyed. perhaps he doesn't have the RAW POWER of the hotu, but as i tried explaining earlier (and shifted arguments because you didn't seem to be getting it, kg), i believe he is outside hotu's purview. in that same regard, LT would hold no power over him. he is SECOND ONLY TO GOD. not second only to god with the exception of LT and wielder of hotu or hotu power. SECOND TO GOD AND GOD ALONE. getting into michael will only cause further debate so i'll leave it at that. i truly don't see why you are having so much trouble getting that.

Yes true I don't believe HOTU can kill Lucifer he has survived the worst attacks imaginable.

Like you said both of there powers work in Marvel/ DC

But in marvel HOTU is all of Gods creation? Agree?

There are other ways of defeating Lucifer, killing him is out of the question just like you can't kill the LT.

But HOTU managed to suck LT, and everything, because he was everything

And how is Lucifer > LT? LT has never lost either (except HOTU)
LT vs Lucifer lots of argument go check it out

hey leo your from canada ?

actually kg, i agree with a lot of what you said. we could debate LT and lucifer forever. i say lucifer (i did check some of the thread, by the way - some good points for both) because as i said, he was first and he is destined to actually replace god. LT seems to serve another purpose. you're right both have never been defeated. i was saying he's second in dc, so to keep his place in marvel equal, he would be second there as well. debatable. OBVIOUSLY! 🙂

and yep, i'm a proud canuck. what's that got to do with anything, eh? you wanna make something of it??! heheh

i'm sure we'll go round and round again kg. you are a persistent sumbitch. and i mean that in a good way.

later

Can anyone explain to me why God would need a sucessor?

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Can anyone explain to me why God would need a sucessor?

It's beyond mortal comprehension 🙁

ohh that sound so corny

Originally posted by leonidas
actually kg, i agree with a lot of what you said. we could debate LT and lucifer forever. i say lucifer (i did check some of the thread, by the way - some good points for both) because as i said, he was first and he is destined to actually replace god. LT seems to serve another purpose. you're right both have never been defeated. i was saying he's second in dc, so to keep his place in marvel equal, he would be second there as well. debatable. OBVIOUSLY! 🙂

and yep, i'm a proud canuck. what's that got to do with anything, eh? you wanna make something of it??! heheh

i'm sure we'll go round and round again kg. you are a persistent sumbitch. and i mean that in a good way.

later

go canucks

Originally posted by kgkg
Who knows, why would god create the multiverse? , anything?

It's beyond mortal comprehension 🙁

ohh that sound so corny

Is he going to stop being God, or die some day? 😕

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Is he going to stop being God, or die some day? 😕

Originally posted by kgkg
What is god doing? does he watch TV?

Why the hell would God need a TV?

Hey, TV is fun. If a rich guy can watch a hobo play guitar, why can't God watch the puny mortals for amusement?

<<Is he going to stop being God, or die some day? >>

maybe he just gets tired of knowing everything and being all-powerful? i mean, without any challenge, wouldn't life get a bit boring? sitting around, listening to the angels tell you how great you are all day would be fun for a few billion years, but it's gotta start to grate eventually, don't it?

heheh

TOAA did not create the beyonder realm and if you have proof of this please share with us, PROOF ACTUAL PROOF not assumptions TOAA has power over ONE multiverse not the omniverse man you people need help TOAA is not more powerful then The Presance get it through your heads.

Originally posted by Mider
TOAA did not create the beyonder realm and if you have proof of this please share with us, PROOF ACTUAL PROOF not assumptions TOAA has power over ONE multiverse not the omniverse man you people need help TOAA is not more powerful then The Presance get it through your heads.

I don't think the Beyonder Realm exists. I believe it was retconned.

How many multiverses are there? 🤨

Who said that TOAA was above the Presence, or vice versa?