Nai Fohl
Advocatus Diaboli
Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
Sources, as much as yoda had Revan had two PLANETS worth of info, stuff from the outer rim and beyond as well as the jedi temple. If you look at the math I posted, and what kreia said about him as well as what the other masters said he learned all there was to learn fromhis sources which were much greater, the jedi archive was great but it was no where close to entire planets filled with knowledge.
When did "more sources" ever helped anyone ? Exile walked up to Atris who had an entire room filled with Sith holocrons and who had all the knowledge a Jedi could have and still kicked her ass badly.
And there is simply NO way for anybody to learn EVERYTHING stored within two planets in the time you think Revan did it. That's simple logic. He might have learned everything he needed to do what he wanted (conquer the Republic / conquer the Sith Empire) but he just didn't have enough time to learn everything.
Imagine how much time you need to read a book. Even if you are fast you won't probably be able to read more than a page in 30 seconds. No imagine the time you would need to read through an entire bibliotheque. Learning from a holocron would even take more time. Time Revan never had but Yoda did have.
I will say this again yoda simply would have no knowledge of some of the powers Revan had as he found them places yoda didn't know about or was banned from going to. Also we come back to the fact some powers can't be deflected. Also Revan has like 20 times as much force knowledge after KOTOR as he has during it.
How can you tell what Yoda knew about ? He surely had contact to Sith or Sith teaching since he knew about the "one master, one apprentice " rule and Revan doesn't have unique force powers. Basically anybody that came to Korriban or Malachor could also get that knowledge.
And that "some powers can't be deflected" thing still referes to Nihilus NOT to Revan.
As for force heal, you'll have trouble healing while someone is choking you, or draining the life force from you or slashing at you so fast that all you see is a blur. Revan simply had more sources to learn from and an extrordinarily fast learning ability as for yoda being stronger with the force, Revan was the heart of the force and possesed numerous artifacts that sky rocketed his force power.
In can be done while fighting and defending. Seen hundrets of times during KOTOR. Amount of sources doesn't count when you don't have the time to study them all. Artifacts that sky rocketed his force power ? I never had unlimited power amount while playing KOTOR games. We never even get close to see Yoda getting exhausted because of force use...something that did happen to Dooku in the ROTS novel when he had to fight Anakin and Obi-Wan.
Revan is just as fast if not faster it's called master speed so yoda's speed is a non-factor, as for his acrobatics Revan would know where he's going before he even thought of going there so much for that.
a)
You can see that master speed doesn't speed up your combat movement in KOTOR. Even if it's so...still Yoda would be faster.
b)
He can't "realy" predict what Yoda is doing. Echani battle pre-cog or not. He had never came across somebody like Yoda and the Echani ability develops from fighting experience (Handmaiden says that to the Exile in KOTOR 2).
Now throw in the fact that Revans form has practically no weaknesses and that attaru does, Kreia says it, it's shown in both the maul qui-gon fight,the ob1 maul fight and the vrook exile fight. While it excels at offense, it's known for a weakness against force attacks and defending agaisnt an offensive opponent it's a known fact about the style and don't give me this yoda's attaru has no flaws, there's no such thing as yoda's attaru or qui-gons attaru there's just attaru and the flaw in the style remains no matter how well you've mastered it, Attaru is not perfect, not even close it has trouble defendidng against opponents, Revan has fought countless attaru using opponents, knows it's weaknesses and will exploit them, The dooku and sidious fights are irrelevant, comparing them to revan is like comparing a whitebelt to a shaolin master. Revans just as fast has battle pre-cog and his form has less flaws, not only that he's fought people using yoda's form before and knows how to beat it he's also a master at killing jedi. Attaru as it is always pressing the attack is not meant to defend, and the person using it has little chance to defend especially if it's up against someone who knows exactly how the person's going to try to defend.
Oh please...
a)
Ataru has weaknesses when it is performed against MULTIPLE OPPONENTS ! Revan is still a single opponent. So don't give that style weaknesses it doesn't actually have.
b)
There are big differences between Yoda using Ataru and somebody like Qui-Gon doing it:
1. Yoda had mastered that form and therefore knows it's weak points (he is fighting with that style for hundrets of years gone through thousands of hours in lightsaber practice)
2. Yoda is only 1/3 as big as a "normal" Ataru user theirfore MUCH harder to hit
3. Yoda doesn't even need a lightsaber to avoid getting hit by another lightsaber - so if you say Ataru is weak in defending that simply doesn't count here as Yoda doesn't need to parry anything.
4. Yoda does much more unpredictable things in a fight than anyone else. Look at Qui-Gons "acrobatics" - there is almost nothing to look at while Yoda is spinning and jumping around like mad sometimes placing 2-4 blows on an opponent every second.
In fact his size alone does matter. See...I'm quite used to swordfighting techniques since Kenjutsu (Katana sword fighting) is one of my hobbies. Maybe I can explain to you why I would say Yoda has the edge on Revan when it comes to lightsaber combat.
See...basically every combat technique works with an basic amount of attack and defence movements that can be combined an variated. Still the attacks have to go somewhere and you have a number of movements to place a hit on a target area. Against an opponent that has your size you always have three possible "general" target areas. A lower area (basically the legs), a middle area (arms, hands, body) and a upper area (shoulders and head) to aim at. If you switch the target areas fast that can give you the edge over an opponent that is as good as you. Fighting a person with the size of Yoda would be my personal nightmare.
First you can only operate with limited range. You can try that for yourself. Take a stick (or something like that) place yourself in front of a wall and than hold the stick so that it only touches the wall on a height of 50 centrimetres from the ground. Than see how much range you lose compared to holding the stick straight in front of you.
Second you can forget 5/6 of your offensive movements since your target is approximatly half the size of your normal "lower" target zone. Any of the movements you normaly would use to hit a "normal" opponents middle or upper body regions is completely useless.
And last point: because of that you will lose a lot of your offensive abilities since you lack of range and thereby you can't use as much physical power (or kinetic energy) as you could when you fight somebody that has your own size while somebody with Yodas size actually would have more range on the lower region than you have and (by jumping around) same range on the other zones.
Ultimatley Revans just as fast, still has more force knowledge has a better lightsaber form, attaru is flawed in ways that Revan will exploit and has battle pre-cog to know yoda's every movement before he thinks of it himself. In the end Yoda won't be able to block all of revans force attacks, and Revans lightsaber form and ability is superior.
Now to sum up my own post here:
- we can't tell who has actually more force knowledge
- we can't tell what Yoda can block
- we can tell that Ataru only has flaws that do not affect Yoda
- we can tell that Yoda (because of his size) has a lot of advantages on Revan
- we can tell that Revan (in lightsaber combat) would be totaly limited because of the size of his opponent.
If Revan can't take Yoda out before it comes to a lightsaber duel (and I doubt he could do so) he will get killed here.