Yoda(at his peak) VS Darth Revan

actually Frobo, a millinium is 1000 years (mill=1000)

and also, how do we know that Revan's battle pre-cog was so good, sure the handmaiden says that he could predict wars and their outcomes, oh joy, this is not a war, and predictions are not necessarly the truth. I can predict that based on my current marks in school, I will maintain those all throughout university and become the best doctor the world has ever seen, but that does not mean it will come true.

About your point of Revan learning everything in those planets, it is impossible, he is still human. Lets say he can read 1 page every 10 seconds, and a holocron can talk at 30 words a minute. Now in a planet you would have billions upon billions of books and holocrons. It is impossible for him to read and comprehend it all. Plus, after he reads it, he still has to practise it, that also takes time.
No, he did not know everything, get over it

Also, his knowledge is not necesarry so great, Malak said he was stronger in KotOR after his fall than he was before, without any of the knowledge or battle experience

- for battle pre-cog We do know it was that good as the greatest echani could do it and revans ability was far greater than the greatest echani, batlle pre-cog at the level revan has it is 100% accurate.

-As for his knowledge it says that he learned all it had to offer in kotor II, he was an extrordinarily fast learner if you look at that little math thingy I posted it's possible, I'm not saying he knew everything I'm saying he knew everything or almost everything his sources had to offer.

-As for what malak says, he also thought that he'd be able to beat you in lightsaber combat, then you kick his ass and lose like 2% health, then he says that he cannot be beaten with the jedi to take energy from, then you kill him and drain all the jedi or you kill him another 9 times, so he definitley doesn't always know what he's talking about, maybe for raw power yes but anakin had the most raw power of any jedi and he still got his ass handed to him. Now add that raw power to all his knowledge and he's much much stronger than he was both in pre-kotor and in kotor.

Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
- for battle pre-cog We do know it was that good as the greatest echani could do it and revans ability was far greater than the greatest echani, batlle pre-cog at the level revan has it is 100% accurate.

-As for his knowledge it says that he learned all it had to offer in kotor II, he was an extrordinarily fast learner if you look at that little math thingy I posted it's possible, I'm not saying he knew everything I'm saying he knew everything or almost everything his sources had to offer.

-As for what malak says, he also thought that he'd be able to beat you in lightsaber combat, then you kick his ass and lose like 2% health, then he says that he cannot be beaten with the jedi to take energy from, then you kill him and drain all the jedi or you kill him another 9 times, so he definitley doesn't always know what he's talking about, maybe for raw power yes but anakin had the most raw power of any jedi and he still got his ass handed to him. Now add that raw power to all his knowledge and he's much much stronger than he was both in pre-kotor and in kotor.

Revan's pre-cog is 100%. 🤪 Get serious.
The only reason the game says Revan learns really fast is because he had done all that crap before and already knew it in the back of his mind, like amnesia, but you already knew that, you just posted he learned quickly to back up your argument, cut the crap.

Only Revan can do battle pre-cog and burst speed, all Jedi can learn that crap, their just powers in a game to help you develop the character.

Im pretty sure Qui-Gon and Obi-Won, in TPM, use burst speed to run away from the destroyer droids. Don't all Jedi have pre-cog, isn't that how they use their lightsabers so well, they predict each others moves pre-cog is default for force users. Thats why Anakin could pilot podracers, he used pre-cog to predict what would happen next.
In the PT Yoda and Mace say there ability to see the future is clouded, but they have the ability, Sidious collapsed the whole Republic with pre-cog and Sifo Dyas order clone troopers because of his pre-cog ability. Only Revan knows pre-cog is crap, crap I tell you, CRAP!

(P.S.) You people like to get aggresive in this thread, called my argument earlier crap, just bring it.

Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
-we can tell that revan has more sources, with more knowledge in them and that he learned all they had to offer, it's even said in kotor II.

Can we ? We don't know exactly what was stored on Malachor and in what form it was stored there. When there is much to read, Revan could have done that quite quickly. Holocrons - as I mentioned - would need longer time to study.
Also we don't know what Yoda had access to and how much he could have learned from it.

-Yoda can't block what he doesn't know about and as he's never been to korriban or malachor and those worlds are banned from being visited by jedi he obiously doesn't know what those places or the outer rim worlds have to offer. Never mind certain attacks can't be blocked

That point is completely without logic. If Yoda never had contact with Sith how can he deflect and absorb force lightning ? He shouldn't know that. If he can deflect it without knowing it he can probably deflect anything else he don't knows. If he knew force lightning he must have contact with some other Sith and still survived it so he might also know about other Sith powers.

-We can tell that kotor II even says attaru is weak defensively. and that it's weak against force powers. It doesn't say anything about only multiple opponents it says it's weak period.

Since I don't have the time to play that game again I just had a look to the KOTOR II manual. That clearly states that Ataru is:

- best thing vs single opponents
- weak against multiple opponents
- average vs opponents with a lightsaber
- weak against blasters
- average vs force attacks

So I don't know where all your "Ataru is weak" comes from. And that things are only for a "normal" user of that style. Yoda is a master. We saw him waste multiple opponents in seconds (ROTS basically), he is the best lightsaber fighter we saw in the movies (Dooku should have been better according to what is said about the forms) and he is the only one that can throw back and absorb force attacks directly where every other person has to use a lightsaber or just can deflect them to another direction (Dooku in AOTC).

And did you read what I've written about Yodas size and the problems somebody would have fighting against him ?

-we can tell that Revan has battle pre-cog and yoda doesn't, in fact Revan has it to the point that he'll know where yoda will be before he even thinks of doing it, which negates any advantages yoda has by size. Not only that he would always be one step ahead of yoda, which is a definite advantage.

Wow. Revans battle pre-cog is so unfailable that he didn't knew Malak would attack him. It is so perfect that he still got captured and his mind reprogrammed by the Jedi. It is so flawless that he still has to take some hits during combat. Please...
And still Yoda would have force pre-cog and we have people in the KOTOR games that can sense events through the force that will happen around 4,000 years in the future (Kreia in the end of KOTOR II).

-we can also tell that Revan uses a form with practically no flaws, that Revan would have no experience agaisnt.

Combat is combat. You don't have to know everything your opponent can do to defeat him. And also Revan wouldn't have any experience fighting somebody like Yoda. I don't see any advantage for Revan here (see my last post and you will mention a lot of disadvantages for Revan in lightsaber combat)

Finally I can also say that yoda fought no sith other then Sidious and dooku, In TPM a jedi master says, "The sith have been extinct for a milinium," yoda agrees and admits that this new sith threat is a suprise to him, a milineum is 2000 years, so Yoda wouldn't have fought any sith.

First of all: A millenium is actually 1,000 years and the statement referes to the Battle of Ruusan (1,000 years before ANH).

But that statement can't be true. Yoda knew about the "one master, one apprentice" rule that was installed after the Battle of Ruusan so he must have contact to Sith Lords or Sith teachings somewhere between his birth and TPM. And there is another statement (I don't know anymore if it was in AOTC or ROTS) were Mace Windu said that there were no Sith around for "several hundret years" so that Yoda could have actualy fought against Sith Lords in his early days (basically the first half of his life).

good Nai Fohl, you know your stuff pretty good!!!
Cannot praise your posts enough, you keep to the facts, and include some of your logicoppinions too 👆
Credit to everyone here, making good reasons, but i think the Yoda supporting posts are more convincing (Nai, Lord Darkstar, Apex etc.)

Frobo, you give arguments, but you still try to proove things that just is your opinion. You have to keep to what we know for sure, good posts though.

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Can we ? We don't know exactly what was stored on Malachor and in what form it was stored there. When there is much to read, Revan could have done that quite quickly. Holocrons - as I mentioned - would need longer time to study.
Also we don't know what Yoda had access to and how much he could have learned from it.

That point is completely without logic. If Yoda never had contact with Sith how can he deflect and absorb force lightning ? He shouldn't know that. If he can deflect it without knowing it he can probably deflect anything else he don't knows. If he knew force lightning he must have contact with some other Sith and still survived it so he might also know about other Sith powers.

Since I don't have the time to play that game again I just had a look to the KOTOR II manual. That clearly states that Ataru is:

- best thing vs single opponents
- weak against multiple opponents
- average vs opponents with a lightsaber
- weak against blasters
- average vs force attacks

So I don't know where all your "Ataru is weak" comes from. And that things are only for a "normal" user of that style. Yoda is a master. We saw him waste multiple opponents in seconds (ROTS basically), he is the best lightsaber fighter we saw in the movies (Dooku should have been better according to what is said about the forms) and he is the only one that can throw back and absorb force attacks directly where every other person has to use a lightsaber or just can deflect them to another direction (Dooku in AOTC).

And did you read what I've written about Yodas size and the problems somebody would have fighting against him ?

Wow. Revans battle pre-cog is so unfailable that he didn't knew Malak would attack him. It is so perfect that he still got captured and his mind reprogrammed by the Jedi. It is so flawless that he still has to take some hits during combat. Please...
And still Yoda would have force pre-cog and we have people in the KOTOR games that can sense events through the force that will happen around 4,000 years in the future (Kreia in the end of KOTOR II).

Combat is combat. You don't have to know everything your opponent can do to defeat him. And also Revan wouldn't have any experience fighting somebody like Yoda. I don't see any advantage for Revan here (see my last post and you will mention a lot of disadvantages for Revan in lightsaber combat)

First of all: A millenium is actually 1,000 years and the statement referes to the Battle of Ruusan (1,000 years before ANH).

But that statement can't be true. Yoda knew about the "one master, one apprentice" rule that was installed after the Battle of Ruusan so he must have contact to Sith Lords or Sith teachings somewhere between his birth and TPM. And there is another statement (I don't know anymore if it was in AOTC or ROTS) were Mace Windu said that there were no Sith around for "several hundret years" so that Yoda could have actualy fought against Sith Lords in his early days (basically the first half of his life).

-The TPM statement was true and yoda agreed with it enoguh said.

-Battle pre cog works for only what you're looking for, he was busy using it to deal with the jedi boarding party, as for being hit, only in kotor which is when he didn't have it and even then very very rarely, and you don't know that yoda has force pre-cog so please don't make things up, and if someone knows exactly where you will be before you think of going there that completley destroys any size or acrobatic or even speed advantages you have.

-all the movie siths are garbage compared to lord revan don't even bother making a comparison.

-I just played kotor II and it says:

-strong vs a single opponent
-weak vs force powers.

And Revan is equally fast using a form with less weaknesses, possibly none and he has battle pre-cog negating any advantages gained by acrobatics.

-force lightning is one of the most common and most basic sith techniques that has been used countless times in countless wars so chances are it's in the archives, so he does know it, but he doesn't know about the other more advanced sith techniques which can only be learned on sith worlds, worlds that have been banned from jedi and some of these techniques simply can't be blocked.

-The statement he can block what he doesn't know about has absolutley no logic behind it would someone be able to catch a bullet if they didn't know anything about guns and have never encountered them...how bout no.

-The one master one apprentice rule doesn't necessarily mean he fought sith, for all we know a jedi found a tablet written by darth bane.

-In lightsaber combat revan uses a better form, is just as fast and has the advantage of battle pre-cog which pretty much nullifies yoda's size or acrobatic abilities, never mind it's only because yoda was faster that his acrobatics gave him an advantage if he's against someone who's just as fast it's useless. Never mind yoda never fought someone with revans form as it's exclusive to Revan. As yoda himself said, size matters not, and it sure as hell won't matter if your opponent is always two steps a head of you.

-In terms of force powers, Yoda has the complete jedi archives, Revan has the archives on dantooine from which he learned everything they had to offer, korriban where he learned everything he possibly could and malachor where he did the same, as said in kotor II. and game>logic oftentimes. Now we add that yoda only used the force for defence so that nullifies any offensive capabilities of his, from there We have revans vast arsenal of basic force techniques, choke,lightning, slow, force suppresion (which would nullify yoda's force powers.) etc. now throw in advanced sith techniques like death field and many others that yoda wouldn't know about as he hasn't seen the sources revan has and finally lets include that some of Revans force powers simply cannot be blocked and yoda's in trouble.

Sasee: I do not attempt to prove anything I merely show the proof that is already there which has been supported by official sources, but thanks for the compliment, as for the arguements, re-read what fishy, emperor Revan have posted as well as some of what I have posted and you'll come to the conclusion that they have at least equal proof backing them.

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Can we ? We don't know exactly what was stored on Malachor and in what form it was stored there. When there is much to read, Revan could have done that quite quickly. Holocrons - as I mentioned - would need longer time to study.
Also we don't know what Yoda had access to and how much he could have learned from it.

Obviously not all of it, but still a lot. And more different things then most people which again brings me to my book thing.

Read one book a million times and you will know it by heart, read a million books one time and you will know more about things in general but less about one specific subject. Thats what Revan he knew about everything or pretty much everything. Didn't master most of it, except for the things he found really important. But that would still give him an edge in any fight. However in a test of knowledge on Yoda his book Yoda would win but the rest Revan wins by a landslide.

That point is completely without logic. If Yoda never had contact with Sith how can he deflect and absorb force lightning ? He shouldn't know that. If he can deflect it without knowing it he can probably deflect anything else he don't knows. If he knew force lightning he must have contact with some other Sith and still survived it so he might also know about other Sith powers.

Completely agree, but the point here isn't if he can or can not deflect the attacks of a normal force attack that he somehow knows of or does not know off. The question is can he deflect the most powerful force attack that Revan throws at him and for how long. He still struggled with Sidious his lightning, what he did was impressive to say the least but he still struggled with it. Something a lot more powerful would blow him away. And like we have seen an unexpected attack would still shoot him down.

Since I don't have the time to play that game again I just had a look to the KOTOR II manual. That clearly states that Ataru is:

- best thing vs single opponents
- weak against multiple opponents
- average vs opponents with a lightsaber
- weak against blasters
- average vs force attacks

So I don't know where all your "Ataru is weak" comes from. And that things are only for a "normal" user of that style. Yoda is a master. We saw him waste multiple opponents in seconds (ROTS basically), he is the best lightsaber fighter we saw in the movies (Dooku should have been better according to what is said about the forms) and he is the only one that can throw back and absorb force attacks directly where every other person has to use a lightsaber or just can deflect them to another direction (Dooku in AOTC).

I agree Atura isn't as weak with him as is claimed here. But it still has its flaws against both force attacks and lightsaber attacks we saw that with both Dooku and Sidious they still managed to attack him lightsaber to lightsaber. Obviously its not perfect.

And did you read what I've written about Yodas size and the problems somebody would have fighting against him ?

Like I said his speed is great but it doesn't mean he will never ever have to fight or block attacks he still did in the two movies so he will have to do it against Revan.

Wow. Revans battle pre-cog is so unfailable that he didn't knew Malak would attack him. It is so perfect that he still got captured and his mind reprogrammed by the Jedi. It is so flawless that he still has to take some hits during combat. Please...
And still Yoda would have force pre-cog and we have people in the KOTOR games that can sense events through the force that will happen around 4,000 years in the future (Kreia in the end of KOTOR II).

First of all what Kreia said was a cheap way of ending the game because they didn't have the time to make a proper ending 😛 but besides the point, yes the force can predict movements and the future but less precise and like QGJ explains. With the force your reflexes are so fast that you can see things happen before they happen. But not by a lot, seeing the future further away is just a vision.

They are nice and effective but obviously not as far developed as that of Revan. Otherwise that of Revan would not have been called something great.

Combat is combat. You don't have to know everything your opponent can do to defeat him. And also Revan wouldn't have any experience fighting somebody like Yoda. I don't see any advantage for Revan here (see my last post and you will mention a lot of disadvantages for Revan in lightsaber combat)

Vandar... Yoda definitely faced Vandar at times in practice matches. Revan would know how to fight somebody like Yoda.

First of all: A millenium is actually 1,000 years and the statement referes to the Battle of Ruusan (1,000 years before ANH).

But that statement can't be true. Yoda knew about the "one master, one apprentice" rule that was installed after the Battle of Ruusan so he must have contact to Sith Lords or Sith teachings somewhere between his birth and TPM. And there is another statement (I don't know anymore if it was in AOTC or ROTS) were Mace Windu said that there were no Sith around for "several hundret years" so that Yoda could have actualy fought against Sith Lords in his early days (basically the first half of his life).

Meaning what exactly? Yoda didn't meat a Sith for a 1000 years they clearly said they all thought they were extinct for a 1000 years in TPM. Obviously Yoda learned about it somehow but not by facing Sith.

Originally posted by Apex512
Revan's pre-cog is 100%. 🤪 Get serious.
The only reason the game says Revan learns really fast is because he had done all that crap before and already knew it in the back of his mind, like amnesia, but you already knew that, you just posted he learned quickly to back up your argument, cut the crap.

Only Revan can do battle pre-cog and burst speed, all Jedi can learn that crap, their just powers in a game to help you develop the character.

Im pretty sure Qui-Gon and Obi-Won, in TPM, use burst speed to run away from the destroyer droids. Don't all Jedi have pre-cog, isn't that how they use their lightsabers so well, they predict each others moves pre-cog is default for force users. Thats why Anakin could pilot podracers, he used pre-cog to predict what would happen next.
In the PT Yoda and Mace say there ability to see the future is clouded, but they have the ability, Sidious collapsed the whole Republic with pre-cog and Sifo Dyas order clone troopers because of his pre-cog ability. Only Revan knows pre-cog is crap, crap I tell you, CRAP!

(P.S.) You people like to get aggresive in this thread, called my argument earlier crap, just bring it.

No one ever said revan was the only one that could do pre-cog but it's a very rare gift that for most requiresintense concentration, Revan's is far more advanced than anyone's ever in fact he brutally slaughtered the people whose pre-cog was remotley close to being almost comparable to his. As for burst of speed you actually just helped to prove my point, yoda wouldn't have any sort of speed advantage as all jedi can use their force to incrase their speed, and Revan can do this as good as any master hence the name master speed.

-Yoda never used the ability in a duel, neither did mace and what they did wasn't battle pre-cog it was being able to feel things through the force which is different, sifo-dyas was sidious or plagues and they made the army as part of their plan, not because they could forsee the futur, and sidious's ability is more like mace and yoda's where he can feel certain things before they happen through the force but even then it takes meditation.

I personally never said any of those powers were exclusive to revan merely that he had the to a much much greater extent, and I'm sorry if we offended you about your crap arguement whichever one it was, there've been lots.please remind me so I can politely explain why it's wrong, didn't mean to offend you.

I called attaru weak but i was refering to weak compared to Revans form which practically every form except maybe vaapad and tulak hords are, I also meant weak as it was weak against certain things and had weaknesses which is true. please read my other uber long post I think it would be 2-3 posts ago it explains more on the whole force knowledge and pre-cog thing, look for the really long one! 😄

Actually if Revan had his own form (which he probably did) It wouldn't really be defined as great until after he found Tulak Hord his holocron

yes and no, he still had extensive knowledge of the original 7 forms including strengths and weaknesses so taking what he gets from there throwing in his speed and battle pre-cog it could be considered great, however it would definitley be much much stronger after he found tulak's holocron as well as all the other artifacts that would help increase his power.

Yeah okay... Just saying his form wouldn't have been as good before he found the holocron as after

yeah but it would still be better then attaru despite how powerful yoda is with it, especially considering Revan's artifacts and force abilities that make him more powerful during lightsaber combat, now throw in his extensive force knowledge and he could probably give even NJO luke a good fight.

Yoda would kill Revan at his peek.

Frobo, I noticed several times that you said Revan created his own style of combat, for one thing, we do not know that, you are extrapolating, it is possible, but is equally possible that he was using Juyo and waved his lightsaber in the ritual style of combat, actually for all we know, he could have been using form VI, flashy, patient, wait for your opponents, sound familier anyone? Unlikely, yes, but we have no proof that he created his own style

Second, no style is perfect, as is shown in KotOR II, plus Revan has never faced an opponent like Yoda, fighting a 6 foot tall man, is different than fighting a 2-3 foot tall frog on crack

Also, please read the post by Nai Fohl where it talks about how Revan could not use half his battle moves, I just tried the thing where he said to set up a stick a couple feet off the ground and try and hit it (actually, I used a chair, but same thing), first I swung normally, my range was good, decent power, fast etc. Then I tried to hit the chair, first off I had to move closer to it, my power was greatly reduced, and my speed was maybe half what it was before, sure I could hit the chair, but I would certainly not want to hit that if it were flying around. So even if Revan was amazing against normal opponents, against Yoda, he would be weaker

oh Fishy, I noticed you have said that Revan read a million books, and knew stuff from each of them, instead of memorizing one book, what you seem to forget is that Yoda read a million books as well, probably many a time (over 900 years, I could see you re-reading a few things)

Also Frobo, I saw that you said Yoda couldn't have known about the sith, actually I have a theory on that (not proven but very likely, at least as likely as your point of Revan creating his own style of combat)

The theory is this: Yoda met Darth Bane at some point, my reasons for thinking this include:
-we know that jedi/sith can live to over 100 years old (Yoda himself being a prime example, along with others in history), this means that if Bane was 30 at the time of Ruusan, 100 years later when Yoda comes around, he is 130, possible, when Yoda becomes a jedi knight, say 20 years later, he is 150, very old, but still around. Then Yoda might have faced him and killed, learning about the sith rule of two from his holocron.
-Also, Yoda says in Dark Rondevouz, that he faced great trials and temptations in his youth, what could be a greater trial and temptation than a dark lord trying to draw you to the dark side or kill you?
-It explains how Yoda knows about force lightning

Also, keep in mind that the sith after Ruusan got weaker, so Yoda could have fought the most powerful sith in 1000 years, and likely killed him and took his holocron, which he would have then learned from.

And Frobo, you say that Yoda learned his knowledge of force lightning from the archives, unlikely, but possbile, but if they have recorded force lightning, why didn't they record drain life or other things. Actually this is beside the point since Yoda did study from sith holocrons, it says in several books, and I think on starwars.com that Dooku was familier with the sith HOLOCRONS in the jedi temple, so Yoda had at least two sith holocrons to work from, probably more. This also supports my idea of him once meeting Darth Bane, his holocron could be one of them. Also, since Bane was before Ruusan, he would have had knowledge from the sith before him and their holocrons, so it is likely that Bane's holcron held knowledge on at least the basics of those other force techniques, as well as history on Revan and other sith lords

Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
-The TPM statement was true and yoda agreed with it enoguh said.

You have a statement in a later film that dissents the statement. Still there is the question where Yoda knows the "one master, one apprentice rule" from. He MUST have faced Sith or have access to Sith teachings. There is no other way to know that thing.

-Battle pre cog works for only what you're looking for, he was busy using it to deal with the jedi boarding party, as for being hit, only in kotor which is when he didn't have it and even then very very rarely, and you don't know that yoda has force pre-cog so please don't make things up, and if someone knows exactly where you will be before you think of going there that completley destroys any size or acrobatic or even speed advantages you have.

What do you want to tell me ?
Actually the force makes people fast as lightning making it seem as they would have a pre-cog ability. Well...still Yoda didn't need a lightsaber to avoid strikes from three Jedi Council members. Do you realy think Revan can do more attacks on Yoda than three Jedi Council Members can at once ?
The size thing just weakens Revans ability to attack Yoda. If you believe Revan used a flawless lightsaber form they would continue to fight forever since none of them would be able to hit the other.

-all the movie siths are garbage compared to lord revan don't even bother making a comparison.

Sorry if it seemed to you as I were comparing the movie Sith to Revan. Obviously they are children compared to Revan. I was just talking about general problems somebody would have when he has to fight Yoda.

-I just played kotor II and it says:

-strong vs a single opponent
-weak vs force powers.

And Revan is equally fast using a form with less weaknesses, possibly none and he has battle pre-cog negating any advantages gained by acrobatics.

That things said in KOTOR are still counting for "normal" users of that technique not for people who have used it for 800 years and have Yodas force knowledge. And still you would end up with two opponents both unable to hit the other with all advantages (read the thing about size I have postet) on Yodas side.

-force lightning is one of the most common and most basic sith techniques that has been used countless times in countless wars so chances are it's in the archives, so he does know it, but he doesn't know about the other more advanced sith techniques which can only be learned on sith worlds, worlds that have been banned from jedi and some of these techniques simply can't be blocked.

Please...try to keep that discussion "logical". There were no wars vs. Sith during Yodas times. If something is in the archieves he still wouldn't never seen it in real action. And all the other things could also be in the archieves since every Sith had access to worlds like Korriban and could have learned the "advanced" techniques.

We still turning in circles here. If Yoda never had contact to any Sith or Sith teachings past the battle of Ruusan, he wouldn't have known about the "one master one apprentice" rule of the Sith. And for the "advanced Sith techniques" - a deathfield is nothing compared to the ability to create life or control the medichlorians like Plagueis could do.

-The statement he can block what he doesn't know about has absolutley no logic behind it would someone be able to catch a bullet if they didn't know anything about guns and have never encountered them...how bout no.

Yes ? If you have the ability to react on things fired at you with a high amount of speed (for example: arrows) but you don't know about guns: Would you still be able to block or avoid a bullet ?

Or for Yoda: It depends on what you thing how his force defence works. In my oppinion it's like that: Somebody manipulates the force to throw something on Yoda. Yoda senses the manipulation and then he

a) sees the movement in the force and reverses it to throw the things back that were thrown at him.
b) simply stops the movement in the force and absorbs what was thrown on him

In both cases he would be able to redirect or absorb everything that is thrown at him even without knowing what that thing thrown at him would do. If you have another idea how force defence works please give me your oppinion.

-The one master one apprentice rule doesn't necessarily mean he fought sith, for all we know a jedi found a tablet written by darth bane.

And again there is something without logic. If they found a tablet from Darth Bane they must have known that the Sith were still around.

-In lightsaber combat revan uses a better form, is just as fast and has the advantage of battle pre-cog which pretty much nullifies yoda's size or acrobatic abilities, never mind it's only because yoda was faster that his acrobatics gave him an advantage if he's against someone who's just as fast it's useless. Never mind yoda never fought someone with revans form as it's exclusive to Revan. As yoda himself said, size matters not, and it sure as hell won't matter if your opponent is always two steps a head of you.

The pre-cog doesn't nullify the things I said about size. See...the size just will give Revan a hard time to hit Yoda. And still the "never faced something with his form" thing counts for both sides.

-In terms of force powers, Yoda has the complete jedi archives, Revan has the archives on dantooine from which he learned everything they had to offer, korriban where he learned everything he possibly could and malachor where he did the same, as said in kotor II. and game>logic oftentimes. Now we add that yoda only used the force for defence so that nullifies any offensive capabilities of his, from there We have revans vast arsenal of basic force techniques, choke,lightning, slow, force suppresion (which would nullify yoda's force powers.) etc. now throw in advanced sith techniques like death field and many others that yoda wouldn't know about as he hasn't seen the sources revan has and finally lets include that some of Revans force powers simply cannot be blocked and yoda's in trouble.

Take a look at what I have written about force defence. And we saw Yoda using the force in an offensive way in ROTS.

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
You have a statement in a later film that dissents the statement. Still there is the question where Yoda knows the "one master, one apprentice rule" from. He MUST have faced Sith or have access to Sith teachings. There is no other way to know that thing.

What do you want to tell me ?
Actually the force makes people fast as lightning making it seem as they would have a pre-cog ability. Well...still Yoda didn't need a lightsaber to avoid strikes from three Jedi Council members. Do you realy think Revan can do more attacks on Yoda than three Jedi Council Members can at once ?
The size thing just weakens Revans ability to attack Yoda. If you believe Revan used a flawless lightsaber form they would continue to fight forever since none of them would be able to hit the other.

Sorry if it seemed to you as I were comparing the movie Sith to Revan. Obviously they are children compared to Revan. I was just talking about general problems somebody would have when he has to fight Yoda.

That things said in KOTOR are still counting for "normal" users of that technique not for people who have used it for 800 years and have Yodas force knowledge. And still you would end up with two opponents both unable to hit the other with all advantages (read the thing about size I have postet) on Yodas side.

Please...try to keep that discussion "logical". There were no wars vs. Sith during Yodas times. If something is in the archieves he still wouldn't never seen it in real action. And all the other things could also be in the archieves since every Sith had access to worlds like Korriban and could have learned the "advanced" techniques.

We still turning in circles here. If Yoda never had contact to any Sith or Sith teachings past the battle of Ruusan, he wouldn't have known about the "one master one apprentice" rule of the Sith. And for the "advanced Sith techniques" - a deathfield is nothing compared to the ability to create life or control the medichlorians like Plagueis could do.

Yes ? If you have the ability to react on things fired at you with a high amount of speed (for example: arrows) but you don't know about guns: Would you still be able to block or avoid a bullet ?

Or for Yoda: It depends on what you thing how his force defence works. In my oppinion it's like that: Somebody manipulates the force to throw something on Yoda. Yoda senses the manipulation and then he

a) sees the movement in the force and reverses it to throw the things back that were thrown at him.
b) simply stops the movement in the force and absorbs what was thrown on him

In both cases he would be able to redirect or absorb everything that is thrown at him even without knowing what that thing thrown at him would do. If you have another idea how force defence works please give me your oppinion.

And again there is something without logic. If they found a tablet from Darth Bane they must have known that the Sith were still around.

The pre-cog doesn't nullify the things I said about size. See...the size just will give Revan a hard time to hit Yoda. And still the "never faced something with his form" thing counts for both sides.

Take a look at what I have written about force defence. And we saw Yoda using the force in an offensive way in ROTS.

-The thing is I actually do beleive Revan could do better than the three jedi did, his pre-cog is very advanced to the point where he knows what his opponents doing before his opponent does and if he knows exactly where yoda will jump to before yoda thinks,"I guess I'll jump there," and he moves just as quickly, so he would be able to know exactly where to hit down to the milimeter which is why I said it would negate size, it would still pose a small problem but definitley not anything that would make a difference. I also beleive that revans form is that much better, even in the movie you see sidious was able to disarm yoda with a simple burst of force lightning, and Revans force abilities are far beyond those of sidious.

-As for force defense, certain techniques just can't be blocked, as for how it actually works I beleive he takes the power thrown at him and tries to channel it back into the force or could absorb the force energy into his midichlorians and then expend the excess at his will, but that being said there is only so much he could handle, sids threw a force storm at him and he struggled A LOT to the point where you could say it pretty much broke his force defense and that is absolutley nothing compared what Revan could throw at him, you said it yourself, Sidious is but a child compared to him. As for yoda's offensive powers, it was more of a counterattack then an attack, he merely took what was thrown at him and returned it.

- As for the sith knowledge being in the academy, other then the fact yoda never used anything like death field or slow in his fights, powers that would pretty much alow him to anhilate his opponents, The tombs on korriban were destroyed in the fighting when revans sith empire, the knowledge on malachor v was lost after the planet was destroyed, and the knowledge on the outer rim worlds could've only been brought back by Revan or the exile because as far as we know they're the only two that went there. Also some of Revans knowledge came from his own experience which would make it almost exclusive to him.

-Yoda never fought in the battle of ruusan as it occured before he was born and after that the jedi thought all the sith were dead, how yoda knows the one master one aprrentice rule is either,

a. Lucas is an idiot
b. he found something written and merely assumed it to be written by the last of the sith or by freedon nadd.

As for Revan inventing his own style he is actually shown using his own style during one of the cutscenes from KOTOR 1.

Also not just anyone could learn the advanced techniques, you have to be at a cetrain level of power.

As for the sith holocrons, I doubt it, dooku probably learned it from sidious, and it being recorded in the archives is extemely likely as it's a power that's been used countless times against the jedi it would make sence that they leave a, this really hurts and most bad guys will use it against you style of warning.

As for my bullet example if you don't know a gun shoots bullets, chances are you won't catch one.

-finally the statement hundreds of years and a thousand years could and probably do mean the same thing, it doesn't dissprove or contadict it merely says it in a different way.

If there's anything you guys said that I forgot to adress please tell me and keep up the good posts these are more of the intelligent debates this forum neads, really good work fohl and darkstar.

Originally posted by Lord Darkstar
[B]oh Fishy, I noticed you have said that Revan read a million books, and knew stuff from each of them, instead of memorizing one book, what you seem to forget is that Yoda read a million books as well, probably many a time (over 900 years, I could see you re-reading a few things)

I doubt Yoda had more things to learn from then Revan. Yoda had a limited amount of things he could learn about several subjects because they had no information about it. Revan could learn more about a lot of things because they did have information about it.