Yoda(at his peak) VS Darth Revan

Probably not a lot you are right about that... Still he would have faced some opponents that used it and he would have won from them. Making him at the very least know some weaknesses in it, not enough to defeat somebody like Yoda who is a master in it without any challenge. But I do think it kinda nullifies the advantage of lightsaber styles Yoda has on him. Because the only thing that matters is how much they know about each others styles.

Revan could be lacking here. But like Yoda he did put some of his own stuff into it (at the very least if his own form is not true at least) and that would change it around a bit. Making it harder again for both of them.

yes I agree with what you said above Fishy, but I think that Yoda knows more about the lightsaber styles than Revan (read my post on the lightsaber styles to find out why before you blast this Frobo), and since Revan probably used form II, with a couple modifications, I think that Yoda can take this. He tought Dooku in that style and also went on missions with him, had fake training matches with him, and eventually life or death matches with him (all of which Yoda won), so would know more of its weaknesses and ways to get around it than Revan would of Yoda's form

He could know more yes, but I doubt he could use it better. There is still the pre cog thing, the talent Revan had for fighting and the experience. Obviously Revan isn't one to make mistakes in combat otherwise he would have been dead already.

One more thing though perhaps you remember because I do not, what Form Does Kavar teach the Exile in Kotor II?

oh man good question, is it Juyo or Shien Do? sorry, I just can't remember. I'll get back to you later, I'm playing through my game again, when I get to it I'll tell you, may be a while though

for the experience, Yoda also had experience, he fought in the Stark Hyperspace Wars, the Clone Wars and against the nightsisters. And I believe we already debatated the pre-cog, it is not infallible

I'm pretty sure it was Niman, might be wrong though. Niman is good vs everything but not great against anything either.

Pre Cog is not, but I thought you agreed that it does help.. And the opponents Yoda faced were different then the ones Revan faced. Revan faced Jedi and Sith...

The reason I wanted to know about Kavar is because he was a master of I think Ataru, I vaguely remember something like that. I could be off though, however if im right, Revan would know about Ataru, even that of a Master. He would never in his life ignore Kavar who was the most dangerous Jedi save to Vrook and possibly Vandar on the council at the time he started his war. And who was going to lead the Republic in the war and who was the leader of the Jedi Guardians the front line troops. There wasn't going to be anybody more important then that to learn off. Not even Vrook.

Speaking about Vandar, some posts ago somebody said Yoda would have an advantage because he never faced anything like Yoda. He did face Vandar in pracitce matches at the very least probably more. So he would also know how Yoda fights.

yes ok, pre-cog would help. And about Kavar's style, you may be right, I can't remember though.

About Revan training with Vandar, very possible, but that would have been when he was younger, once you become a knight you do not spar with the masters any more, and those would have been more training matchs, Vandar probably would not have been using full power, trying to kill Revan, just train him, but I'll admit, it would help

Of course it would be a training match, which would be limited. But it would be something, and you have to remember here that pretty much all the fighting that Yoda did was in training. And training does not teach you as much about fighting like you just said.

I just killed Kreia on KOTOR 2 and she told me I was the greatest she had ever trained. The exile isn't stronger than Revan...

Meditate on this, I must.
(P.S)
The point about Vandar is true... damn!

Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
-The thing is I actually do beleive Revan could do better than the three jedi did, his pre-cog is very advanced to the point where he knows what his opponents doing before his opponent does and if he knows exactly where yoda will jump to before yoda thinks,"I guess I'll jump there," and he moves just as quickly, so he would be able to know exactly where to hit down to the milimeter which is why I said it would negate size, it would still pose a small problem but definitley not anything that would make a difference. I also beleive that revans form is that much better, even in the movie you see sidious was able to disarm yoda with a simple burst of force lightning, and Revans force abilities are far beyond those of sidious.

And still I see a logic mistake here.
You have three Jedi Council Members...they are as fast as Revan is (when you believe there is nothing faster compared to master speed).
They all have lightning fast reflexes making it seem like they have pre-cog. They all try to hit Yoda at once and Yoda can avoid their blows.
Now basically you have 2 different reasons how that works:

a) Yoda is faster than them what would make him also faster than Revan is.
b) Yoda is totally unpredictable in movements (since he can change the direction of his movements even while jumping an being in the air)

Still take a look at the thing I have written about fighting somebody with the size of Yoda. You simply lose 5/6 (83 %) of your offensive movement abilities. You lose (approxematly) 50 % of your range, speed and power.

And Fishy...you threw Vandar in here. Yes. Probably Revan had some training fights with him. Did he lose ? Did he win ? Is Vandar anything compared to Yoda when it comes to force mastery, speed and lightsaber combat ? It would give him some experience with somebody that has Yodas size still that won't take away the natural disadvantages a swordfighter with normal size would have against somebody with Yodas size.

-As for force defense, certain techniques just can't be blocked, as for how it actually works I beleive he takes the power thrown at him and tries to channel it back into the force or could absorb the force energy into his midichlorians and then expend the excess at his will, but that being said there is only so much he could handle, sids threw a force storm at him and he struggled A LOT to the point where you could say it pretty much broke his force defense and that is absolutley nothing compared what Revan could throw at him, you said it yourself, Sidious is but a child compared to him. As for yoda's offensive powers, it was more of a counterattack then an attack, he merely took what was thrown at him and returned it.

Where did Sidious ever got close to pass Yodas force defence ? Sidious at the end of their fight in ROTS suprised Yoda with his last force lightning and threw everything he had into it. Still Yoda deflected the force power and also the kinetic energy of the force lightning until their was so much force power between them that it exploded. And even that raw and uncontrolled explosion of force powers didn't do anything to Yoda.

And with "offensive" use I meant the things I have mentioned before. Yoda walks into Sidious room and immediatly knocks the red guards to the ground. And he threw Sidious across the entire room with the force. He did both things without using much concentration. In the EU (during the clone wars) he crushed a hailfire droid (that things that drive around on that oversized hoop-like wheels) with his force powers.

- As for the sith knowledge being in the academy, other then the fact yoda never used anything like death field or slow in his fights, powers that would pretty much alow him to anhilate his opponents, The tombs on korriban were destroyed in the fighting when revans sith empire, the knowledge on malachor v was lost after the planet was destroyed, and the knowledge on the outer rim worlds could've only been brought back by Revan or the exile because as far as we know they're the only two that went there. Also some of Revans knowledge came from his own experience which would make it almost exclusive to him.

Why should Yoda use Sith techniques to kill his opponents ? That's totally against any rule of the Jedi Order. And how can you tell what knowledge was lost ? You probably had hundrets of Dark Jedi / Sith learning on Malachor. Still you had the spirits of the ancient sith lords around that could appear in nearly every place of the galaxy they'd like to (Ragnos for example).

And still we don't know what was stored in the Jedi Archieves (in the parts only the Council members had access to). They could have all the informations in it that the Sith had that were killed during the Battle of Ruusan and basically everything from Revans times on.

-Yoda never fought in the battle of ruusan as it occured before he was born and after that the jedi thought all the sith were dead, how yoda knows the one master one aprrentice rule is either,

a. Lucas is an idiot
b. he found something written and merely assumed it to be written by the last of the sith or by freedon nadd.

The "one master one apprentice" rule was installed past the Battle of Ruusan and the Jedi must have known that when they knew about the rule because they fought against more than 2 Sith during the Ruusan battle.

And here some statement from the films:
TPM (Jedi Council chamber):
QUI-GON : ...my only conclusion can be that it was a Sith Lord.
KI-ADI : Impossible! The Sith have been extinct for a millenium.
MACE WINDU : I do not believe they could have returned without us knowing.
YODA : Hard to see, the dark side is. Discover who this assassin is, we must.

So...nobody actually agrees with the statement of Ki-Adi. Also Mace and Yoda both didn't seem to be very surprised hearing that the Sith have returned. Maybe they knew because they sensed some Dark Side manipulations done by Sidious to hide himself (he was on Coruscant for almost 30 years during the events of TPM). That also would explain some other things: Why should Mace have invented a new lightsaber combat form that is great against dark side users when they all thought the Sith were extinct ?
And take a look at the prophecy: Why should they believe the Sith were all dead when there is a prophecy (yet not fulfilled) about somebody that will kill the Sith ? That would be stupid.

Also it would be stupid to tell people about the dark side and Sith teachings. Why should they ? To give their students the opportunity to join the dark side ? Of course not...to face it when Dark Jedi / Sith would appear again. Yes...that's the point.

Also not just anyone could learn the advanced techniques, you have to be at a cetrain level of power.

Their were Sith that were considered as "Dark Lords" past Revan. Take a look at people like Bane for example.

As for the sith holocrons, I doubt it, dooku probably learned it from sidious, and it being recorded in the archives is extemely likely as it's a power that's been used countless times against the jedi it would make sence that they leave a, this really hurts and most bad guys will use it against you style of warning.

See...the Jedi Archieves remained the same from the destruction of Ossus to ROTS times...they probably have knowledge stored there about: Exar Kun, Ulic Quel-Droma, Revan, Malak, Nihilus, Sion and every Sith they faced from that time on. Since you can figure out of what Kreia says in the end of KOTOR II you might believe that Visas was one of the persons to restart the Jedi Order. So that would be nearly 4,000 years of knowledge about the ancient sith and their unique powers to learn from.

And you shouldn't unterestimate Sidious. He is a child compared to people like Revan. But we know that he studied the Sith mausoleums on Korriban and actually the dark force power flowing through his body was so intense that it ravaged his mortal frame when he unleashed it.

As for my bullet example if you don't know a gun shoots bullets, chances are you won't catch one.

If you have reflexes fast as lightning and can move fast as lightning there is a very little chance that somebody will hit you with a bullet. If something flys towars you with 1000 miles per hour you will surely want to get out of its way no matter if you know what it is or not.

Originally posted by Fishy
One more thing though perhaps you remember because I do not, what Form Does Kavar teach the Exile in Kotor II? [/B]

That depends on in which order you visit the worlds. You receive knowledge of form I-III without having any training. The other forms are shown to you in their normal order. So you learn form IV from the first master you visit, V from the next...and so on...

And I have another question to add here. The thread says "Yoda (at his peak)". When Yoda was at his peak ? I doubt very much that this was in the times of TPM, AotC and RotS. When it comes to force knowledge...ok...but I think he could have been much better (and even faster) with a lightsaber in his early days.

Well okay, so one of the masters did teach the Exile Ataru, thats pretty clear.

Meaning that Revan did know Ataru and because one of the two most powerful masters of that time probably taught it to him (Vrook or Kavar) Revan would know a lot about it. He would have to. I don't know how great Zal Kel Ej or whatever his name is, is. But not as great as the other two. Still even if he studied Ataru his entire life Revan would have known about it. Just less then if it was Vrook or Kavar.

And Yoda at his peak, I always considered that to be PT time Yoda. Because he had more time to study and to perfect his techniques and everything. I could be wrong of course but with Jedi and Sith it doesn't seem to matter if you get older. Usually it just helps because you become more powerful.

Besides even if we would assume its like 200 years, or 400 or 500 years we would be guessing at how much faster he would become (probably not that much) and how much less of the force he knew and how much weaker his control was (probably more, but still not all that much). So PT Yoda would probably be the best Yoda to go on.

Originally posted by Darth Plagues
Like I have said...Revan's moves are not the best of the best on that game, which is the only thing you have to represent Darth Revan with. Along with quotes by people on that game, which is their own opinion. Everyone on that games fights the same. I am not denying Revan is powerful, he is just not superior to Yoda.

If Dooku knew he could beat Yoda...Why worry about the Death Star plans? Yoda was going to die...he could have stayed and fought...giving the Jedi a hurtful blow right there. He ran, because he can't win. Sidious sought the high ground, because he can't win without it.

Get your head out of your ass and listen to other people's reasons. You say his fighting style is the only thing he has going for him? Have you even been listening? Let me refresh your memory.

Revan has the highest level of Battle precog, has the Will power to resist the Dark side of an entire planet that no one else (not even Kreia) could resist, controlled the Star Forge, is perhaps the greatest tactician ever, has enormously high potential, learns everything about the Jedi from them, plundering tombs, relics, artifacts, and knowledge from a planet sized Sith storehouse of knowledge, learns dozens of ways to kill or turn Jedi/Sith, fights for 6 years straight as the leader of one of the forces in the two different wars against powerful opponents, killing Mandalore and the strongest Echani, and was considered by Kreia (Revan's mentor who could kill three Jedi council members at the same time with one use of the Force) to be the heart of the Force.

Then he loses all that power and becomes a Jedi again, he plunders Korriban, including the tombs of four very powerful dark lords, gaining their artifacts, learning from Tulak's holocron, killing two tarentateks at the same time by himself when just one could easily kill a Jedi, he killed everyone in a Sith academy that he started, he killed the best bounty hunter at that time, a Sith Lord, he killed hundreds of dark Jedi and assassin droids, defeated and killed his apprentice Darth Malak at least twice in a row, and became even stronger than he was during his first reign (first paragraph).

Then he recovers all his memories and knowledge from Malachor V, the Jedi temples, etc. increasing his power greatly from the second paragraph, before he goes to fight the ancient Sith empire single handedly.

All of this has been proven so there's no "fairy tale stuff" or whatever you thought we were making up even though we weren't. Fighting styles don't really mean much, no style is perfect and any style can be defeated by another. Now you list your "proof" of why Yoda can beat him even though he undoubtedly had less knowledge, less Force potential, fought less Sith, fought less Jedi, was not as good of a tactician, and didn't even beat Sidious or Dooku.

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
And still I see a logic mistake here.
You have three Jedi Council Members...they are as fast as Revan is (when you believe there is nothing faster compared to master speed).
They all have lightning fast reflexes making it seem like they have pre-cog. They all try to hit Yoda at once and Yoda can avoid their blows.
Now basically you have 2 different reasons how that works:

a) Yoda is faster than them what would make him also faster than Revan is.
b) Yoda is totally unpredictable in movements (since he can change the direction of his movements even while jumping an being in the air)

Still take a look at the thing I have written about fighting somebody with the size of Yoda. You simply lose 5/6 (83 %) of your offensive movement abilities. You lose (approxematly) 50 % of your range, speed and power.

And Fishy...you threw Vandar in here. Yes. Probably Revan had some training fights with him. Did he lose ? Did he win ? Is Vandar anything compared to Yoda when it comes to force mastery, speed and lightsaber combat ? It would give him some experience with somebody that has Yodas size still that won't take away the natural disadvantages a swordfighter with normal size would have against somebody with Yodas size.

Where did Sidious ever got close to pass Yodas force defence ? Sidious at the end of their fight in ROTS suprised Yoda with his last force lightning and threw everything he had into it. Still Yoda deflected the force power and also the kinetic energy of the force lightning until their was so much force power between them that it exploded. And even that raw and uncontrolled explosion of force powers didn't do anything to Yoda.

And with "offensive" use I meant the things I have mentioned before. Yoda walks into Sidious room and immediatly knocks the red guards to the ground. And he threw Sidious across the entire room with the force. He did both things without using much concentration. In the EU (during the clone wars) he crushed a hailfire droid (that things that drive around on that oversized hoop-like wheels) with his force powers.

Why should Yoda use Sith techniques to kill his opponents ? That's totally against any rule of the Jedi Order. And how can you tell what knowledge was lost ? You probably had hundrets of Dark Jedi / Sith learning on Malachor. Still you had the spirits of the ancient sith lords around that could appear in nearly every place of the galaxy they'd like to (Ragnos for example).

And still we don't know what was stored in the Jedi Archieves (in the parts only the Council members had access to). They could have all the informations in it that the Sith had that were killed during the Battle of Ruusan and basically everything from Revans times on.

The "one master one apprentice" rule was installed past the Battle of Ruusan and the Jedi must have known that when they knew about the rule because they fought against more than 2 Sith during the Ruusan battle.

And here some statement from the films:
TPM (Jedi Council chamber):
QUI-GON : ...my only conclusion can be that it was a Sith Lord.
KI-ADI : Impossible! The Sith have been extinct for a millenium.
MACE WINDU : I do not believe they could have returned without us knowing.
YODA : Hard to see, the dark side is. Discover who this assassin is, we must.

So...nobody actually agrees with the statement of Ki-Adi. Also Mace and Yoda both didn't seem to be very surprised hearing that the Sith have returned. Maybe they knew because they sensed some Dark Side manipulations done by Sidious to hide himself (he was on Coruscant for almost 30 years during the events of TPM). That also would explain some other things: Why should Mace have invented a new lightsaber combat form that is great against dark side users when they all thought the Sith were extinct ?
And take a look at the prophecy: Why should they believe the Sith were all dead when there is a prophecy (yet not fulfilled) about somebody that will kill the Sith ? That would be stupid.

Also it would be stupid to tell people about the dark side and Sith teachings. Why should they ? To give their students the opportunity to join the dark side ? Of course not...to face it when Dark Jedi / Sith would appear again. Yes...that's the point.

Their were Sith that were considered as "Dark Lords" past Revan. Take a look at people like Bane for example.

See...the Jedi Archieves remained the same from the destruction of Ossus to ROTS times...they probably have knowledge stored there about: Exar Kun, Ulic Quel-Droma, Revan, Malak, Nihilus, Sion and every Sith they faced from that time on. Since you can figure out of what Kreia says in the end of KOTOR II you might believe that Visas was one of the persons to restart the Jedi Order. So that would be nearly 4,000 years of knowledge about the ancient sith and their unique powers to learn from.

And you shouldn't unterestimate Sidious. He is a child compared to people like Revan. But we know that he studied the Sith mausoleums on Korriban and actually the dark force power flowing through his body was so intense that it ravaged his mortal frame when he unleashed it.

If you have reflexes fast as lightning and can move fast as lightning there is a very little chance that somebody will hit you with a bullet. If something flys towars you with 1000 miles per hour you will surely want to get out of its way no matter if you know what it is or not.

-comparing the jedi masters to revan is a huge mistake, the three of them combined wouldn't have been able to take sidious, let alone Revan, Revans speed would be just as great as yoda's as assuming their is nothing better than master speed, and how fast your master speed is is probably determined by two things,

1. your connection to the force, while yoda is very well connected to the force Revan is considered to be the heart of the force and was the most powerful force-user in a time of extremely powerful force users, lets just say it's equal.
2. how fast you are in your natural state, Revan is a physically fit 30 year old, yoda is a 900 year old swamp thing.

I was efering to the part that sids threw so much force power at yoda that he was barely and I mean barely able to hold it off and the resulting explosion sent him flying across the senate chamber, now considering how much more powerful Revan is than sidious chances are he could throw so much energy at yoda that he would eventually be overwhelmed, and yoda won't be able to block some of revans attacks. On the grounds that some are simply unable to be defended against and he would simply have no knowledge of others which he may be able to block for a short time but defending agaisnt something you have no knowledge of for a long or medium period of time would be extremly difficult for yoda.

-The jdi would definitley not keep sith holocrons in the archives, it's just common sense, why keep something that weakens your order and teaches jedi of the darkside? why keep something that would help people join the very side that seeks to destroy you? why let others learn teachings that completely contradict everything you're teaching?

-that statement by mace, "I do not beleive they could have returned without us knowing." shows that he doesn't beleive that they could have come back from 1000 years of extinction without them knowing in short it merely shows that he disagrees that the sith would have come back from all that time without them feeling it through the force. Also yoda's statement just shows that the darkside has clouded his vision as it always has, and that he has extreme difficulty sensing the sith, even when he tried really hard to find out where or who the sith(s) were he couldn't, so even if he thought the sith were still alive he was completely unable to sense them.

-Visas didn't know any more than the most basic of basic sith techniques, her master had a complete disregard for sith teachings and he definitley wouldn't spend his time teaching them to her, and if she spent all her time onboard the ravager before she met the exile then that would be the only person who could teach her anything, and except for his hunger ability he didn't know jack all. as for her time with the exile, ultimatley her force abilities were the same as the exiles if you go by the game, and he didn't know jack all about the sith either, even kreia tells him he's not sith, the only chance he'd have to learn of sith teachings would be from kreia, which he didn't as a fact or from the academy on korriban, and look how dirt poor those force users turned out, Revan slaughtered them all without breaking a sweat and that's after killing two sith masters who were comparable to jedi masters from yoda's time, not all of them but at least some and two tentarak by himself one of which would easily destroy a jedi, even a master, 2 tombs full of droids, ajunta palls spirit, a bunch of animals, whatever they're called,uthars old master and a cave full of shyrack as well as sith students and that was at less then a third of his power so anything he could have learned from there is utter crap, visas even more so.

As for the best yoda to go by, it's Tpm,aotc,or rots as anything earlier wouldn't have as much force knowledge which is the only reason yoda's as fast and acrobatic as he is, So lets say that they're equally fast and that Revan's lightsaber technique is practically flawless which it is as is yoda's,even if yoda can block everything Revan could throw at him, which chances are he can't then that leaves yoda with his size advantage and revan with his battle pre-cog, Revan would know exactly yoda was going to be before yoda even thought of going there, down to the milimeter which means,

A.He'd always be one step ahead of him
B. Any advantage yoda gains from his size, is pretty much useless as Revan knows the exact place he will be at all times.

I also seriously doubt that a jedi master using a form that has been used countless times throughout history, with a known flaw, despite how difficult it would be to exploit against someone who mastered it like yoda, against someone who uses his own form that after he dies is never seen again and is practically flawless, as there would be no reason for him to take any weak aspects from his extensive knowledge of the forms and tulak hords holocron.so chances are Revan has an equal or better lightsaber technique.

-On vandar, he's supposed to be equally powerful to yoda, or just a slight bit less though I can't find an exact quote, and Revan was the best force user during his time, but truthfully I don't know enough about vandar to compare him to yoda.

-As for the sidious thing, yes he was powerful, yes he was brilliant but Revan was still much much much better, and if sidious could overwhelm or nearly overwhelm yoda's force defense then chances are revan could.

Now to find an ice pack and a couple bottles worth of tylenol

First of all we have misunderestimated Darth Sidious. He is a powerful Sith...And Revan, well he is powerful too, but think about it. Most of you say he is powerful, because of the amount of people he has killed. Look at it like this.

Your on the street and this dude comes picking on you and then tries to hit you. Okay so you defend yourslef and in the end you win. So more pop up trying to beat you up, but you take those guys down as well. Now that we beat up a gang of people we have some arogance on our selves...so we go challenge a ninja. We die...the end. My point is...killing alot of people does not really give you an advantage, because everybody fights differently.

Nobody in Darth Revan's time fought like Yoda. Like, before someone tried to compare Vrooks form, which is the same as Yoda's and was trying to say plenty of people that used that form died. Yes, they did, but did they have the speed of Yoda? Did they fight like Yoda? No they didn't.

People keep defending Darth Revan by saying he could see Yoda entire attack pattern, before it even happened. That is just overly estimated claim. People that are defending Darth Revan in this matter have nothing more than a video game and quotes from people on that game. The rest is just a made of basis. We don't even know what form Darth Revan uses. And I highly doubt that he created his own form. Go watch that cutscene with Revan and Bastila again...you are suggesting he has his own form, because the way he twirls his lightsaber. That is not a very good reason.

interesting post plagues...I was about to walk in and say Revan....lol...now I have to think again damn you!...lol

Originally posted by Darth Plagues
First of all we have misunderestimated Darth Sidious. He is a powerful Sith...And Revan, well he is powerful too, but think about it. Most of you say he is powerful, because of the amount of people he has killed. Look at it like this.

Your on the street and this dude comes picking on you and then tries to hit you. Okay so you defend yourslef and in the end you win. So more pop up trying to beat you up, but you take those guys down as well. Now that we beat up a gang of people we have some arogance on our selves...so we go challenge a ninja. We die...the end. My point is...killing alot of people does not really give you an advantage, because everybody fights differently.

Nobody in Darth Revan's time fought like Yoda. Like, before someone tried to compare Vrooks form, which is the same as Yoda's and was trying to say plenty of people that used that form died. Yes, they did, but did they have the speed of Yoda? Did they fight like Yoda? No they didn't.

People keep defending Darth Revan by saying he could see Yoda entire attack pattern, before it even happened. That is just overly estimated claim. People that are defending Darth Revan in this matter have nothing more than a video game and quotes from people on that game. The rest is just a made of basis. We don't even know what form Darth Revan uses. And I highly doubt that he created his own form. Go watch that cutscene with Revan and Bastila again...you are suggesting he has his own form, because the way he twirls his lightsaber. That is not a very good reason.

You are so right about that Ninja statement... Kill a thousand people you could win kill a Ninja you would lose... You are so right here.. Only one thing, Revan killed a thousand Ninja's...

He fought the most powerful people and creatures of that time and beat them with ease. Jedi and Sith Masters Terentak who could kill Masters themselves... All in all Revan kileld the most powerful of Ninjas not just a normal 7 year old boy (btw you try fighting a 100 7 year olds at the same time and win... You won't succeed)

Revan faced hundreds of Padawans okay no where near his skill but still its going to be hard to do. He still did it.

And for the fourth time, VANDAR... he fights like Yoda. He's the same species. Revan would know how people like that act. And yes battle pre-cog would allow you to see people's movements before they even happened. Yoda fights through a style thats easily discovered and you could easily see how it works. Revan would notice that pretty quickly and with pre-cog he could block Yoda his attacks.

Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
-comparing the jedi masters to revan is a huge mistake, the three of them combined wouldn't have been able to take sidious, let alone Revan, Revans speed would be just as great as yoda's as assuming their is nothing better than master speed, and how fast your master speed is is probably determined by two things,

Erm...what Jedi masters are you talking about ? Fisto, Tiin and Kolar ? No...they couldn't have taken Sidious. Mace did it on his own. Yoda would have done this on his own. So it's also a huge mistake to compare people like Fisto to Mace or Yoda or compare them to people like Dooku and Maul.

1. your connection to the force, while yoda is very well connected to the force Revan is considered to be the heart of the force and was the most powerful force-user in a time of extremely powerful force users, lets just say it's equal.
2. how fast you are in your natural state, Revan is a physically fit 30 year old, yoda is a 900 year old swamp thing.

Your connection to the force comes from experience with the force. I doubt that anyone has a better insight to the force than Yoda had. We aren't talking about "raw powers" here. Anakin had a greater potential than anybody else in the known history of the order. Do you believe he could beat Yoda ? Luke has a greater potential than Yoda...and I won't give him a chance to defeat Yoda in a lightsaber fight (no...even NJO Luke...just according to the things I said about "size"😉.

I was efering to the part that sids threw so much force power at yoda that he was barely and I mean barely able to hold it off and the resulting explosion sent him flying across the senate chamber, now considering how much more powerful Revan is than sidious chances are he could throw so much energy at yoda that he would eventually be overwhelmed, and yoda won't be able to block some of revans attacks. On the grounds that some are simply unable to be defended against and he would simply have no knowledge of others which he may be able to block for a short time but defending agaisnt something you have no knowledge of for a long or medium period of time would be extremly difficult for yoda.

The explosion was the result of the fact that Yoda deflected all the energy and all that energy was stored between him and Sidious. So you can see that there was a "critical mass" of force energy between them and that this was the cause for that explosion. Estimating Revans force lightning would be more powerful (actualy the dark energies Sidious focused were powerful enough to destroy his own body when he just channels them) you would just reach that "critical" level faster.

-The jdi would definitley not keep sith holocrons in the archives, it's just common sense, why keep something that weakens your order and teaches jedi of the darkside? why keep something that would help people join the very side that seeks to destroy you? why let others learn teachings that completely contradict everything you're teaching?

Come on. Gathering knowledge about your enemy is not a uncommon thing. Still that things would have been stored in the part of the archieves only the Jedi Council members would have access to. Did you ever heared about a Jedi Council member that fell to the dark side ? All that people from the order that had chosen the way of the Sith were quite weak persons (in mind or sheer power).

- Freedon Nadd was a Padawan that failed his test to become a Knight
- Exar Kun wanted to be more powerful than other Jedi
- Ulic Quel-Droma blamed himself for the fall of his master Arca Jeth
- Anakin Skywalker wanted to save his wife and thereby he was the one killing her

What I wanted to tell you is following: A council member can probably access Sith teaching without the danger of falling to the dark side just to get to know what to expect from opponents that might come across his way in later times. And you see all the council members doing better against the Sith than the "normal" Jedi. See how Anakin slaughtered that people and than take a look at his fight with Obi-Wan.

-that statement by mace, "I do not beleive they could have returned without us knowing." shows that he doesn't beleive that they could have come back from 1000 years of extinction without them knowing in short it merely shows that he disagrees that the sith would have come back from all that time without them feeling it through the force. Also yoda's statement just shows that the darkside has clouded his vision as it always has, and that he has extreme difficulty sensing the sith, even when he tried really hard to find out where or who the sith(s) were he couldn't, so even if he thought the sith were still alive he was completely unable to sense them.

Take a look at Yodas statement and think about it. "Hard to see the dark side is" ? How might he know that without ever had any confrontation with the dark side ? And still there is no prove that the Sith never showed up during the last 1,000 years. Sith are arrogant. Do you realy think they would hide for 1,000 years - people with the powers of Darth Plagueis ? They have to recruit new apprentices they have to gain power they have to travel around gathering knowledge (Dxun ? Yavin 4 ? Korriban ? - worlds that could be surveilenced by Jedi forces).

Actualy Yoda dissents Mace statement. Mace statement is "They couldn't have returned without us knowing it" (and he looks to Yoda as he meant it as a question) and then you have Yoda basicaly saying "They could have done that." See what I mean ? 😉