Yoda(at his peak) VS Darth Revan

Originally posted by DarthSidiouss
Revan is O-V-E-R-A-T-E-D i read up on all the facts their is nothing special about him. on top of that revan was not a sith. neither was malak and a hole bunch'a other guys. they were dark jedi!Yoda is only second to one person LUKE!

So you're our next genius with brilliant posts about something you know tons of stuff about. (end sarcasm)

If you haven't played both KOTOR 1 and 2 then you don't know what you're talking about. He was called DARTH Revan for a reason. Darth is short for dark lord of the sith. He plundered knowledge from a planet sized sith storehouse of knowledge and is considered by many to be the most powerful Sith lord of all time. Read my post that's right before this one, it's got most of the reasons why people think that.

Here's some advice: Don't post unless you know what you're talking about.

?? to tell you the truth actually i have played them. they are pretty fun but why is revan so incredible ? i dont understand ?? he was in a video game not in a comic book,tv show or movie ??😖

well ok sorry then, but just because it's a game doesn't mean he's weaker than anyone in a movie or comic. Read the last post on page 18.

but still.. look at darth sidious he took over the republic and destroyed it. everyone underestimates sidious they underate him. I believe Darth Sidious is the most powerfulest and greatest sith to ever live and the powerfullest jedi is NJO luke skywalker. The greatest jedi must be master yoda, because of his wisdom. But i still believe that sidious is better than revan. Yoda can defeat REvan. Revan is from the old republic, no one was skilled with a litesaber like yoda,mace windu,luke,ploe koon,obi-wan,annakin they might of been good, maybe more force powerful but i believe they were not that greatly skilled with a lightsaber. Yoda would win!

i read it already.

Originally posted by DarthSidiouss
but still.. look at darth sidious he took over the republic and destroyed it. everyone underestimates sidious they underate him. I believe Darth Sidious is the most powerfulest and greatest sith to ever live and the powerfullest jedi is NJO luke skywalker. The greatest jedi must be master yoda, because of his wisdom. But i still believe that sidious is better than revan. Yoda can defeat REvan. Revan is from the old republic, no one was skilled with a litesaber like yoda,mace windu,luke,ploe koon,obi-wan,annakin they might of been good, maybe more force powerful but i believe they were not that greatly skilled with a lightsaber. Yoda would win!

Well most people would say you're wrong that Sidious could beat Lord Revan. Just look at the poll in their fight. Revan has about 22 and Sidious has about 5. Anywho, Revan had the Republic in his hands, he simply left to fight the ancient Sith empire single handedly. Not that greatly skilled with a lightsaber? Revan killed hundreds of dark Jedi and Sith apprentices, he killed hundreds of mandalorians including Mandalore, he killed the most powerful Echani, he killed or turned hundreds of Jedi, he killed the best bounty hunter of that time, he killed a Sith lord, he killed dozens of Assassin droids, he killed a very powerful Sith lord twice in a row. How many have fallen before Yoda's blade? Or Sidious'? Combine them both and it would be less than Revan's.

I say Yoda because I found out that in KOTOR there is a cheat to make Revan turn into a dancing Twi'Lek so I think Yoda is stronger than that.

Originally posted by DarthSidiouss
Revan is O-V-E-R-A-T-E-D i read up on all the facts their is nothing special about him. on top of that revan was not a sith. neither was malak and a hole bunch'a other guys. they were dark jedi!Yoda is only second to one person LUKE!

you're a noob but I won't be mean to you or laugh at your patheticness and ignorance, instead I will explain what makes revan so special in a way that even someone of your intelligence can understand.

-First off, he's considered the heart of the force with potential amazingly high to the point it's ridiculous and is amazingly in touch with the force.

-At 20 he went off to fight the madalorians,(picture an army of jango fetts with star destroyers more or less) he lead a crappy outnumbered and sorely losing army to victory every time since he joined the war and was the greatest tactician ever, he killed thousands of mandalorians in combat as well as their leader, then he killed thousands of echani including their greatest general whose battle pre-cog was so advanced that he could forsee wars and would know his enemy's next move before he even thought of it, and Revans pre-cog was superior to his by far.

-all that time Revan learned everything possible from the jedi archive on dantooine, as well as tons and tons about lightsaber comabt which he put into practice fighting his wars, he then found clues leading to the star forge including on korriban homeworld of the sith where he learned from everything the tombs and other things the ancient sith left behind. From there he went to malachor v where he orchestrated a battle so it got rid of anyone unloyal to him, he then made a sith army learned all malachor could teach him, (basically anything he didn't already know) resisted his tempation to fall to the darkside which only he could was able to do, only to become the dark lord later in order to actually save the republic from the ancient sith empire, from there he became a master at killing and turning jedi with an unlimited supply of resources and thousands joining him every day a jedi strike team ambushed his ship and his apprentice and former best friend malak turned on him and fired on his ship, but the jedi saved him and temprorarily erased his memories causing him to lose two thirds of his power.

-from there he then went on a quest where he easily killed, a military base full of sith, every living member of the exchange on taris pretty much, and an entire swoop gang and part of another one. all without any force knowledge then the jedi gave him the most basic and crappy training from there he killed,
tons of kath hounds, madalorian mercenaries, a powerful jedi, an academy full of sith, two tombs worth of extremely deadly assasin droids,two tentarak at the same time one of which could kill a full fledged jedi master with ease, an ex jedi master, a cave full of former sith students shyrack and yet another tentarak. He then killed two powerful jedi masters at once, all this with basically no training as well as an entire academy full of sith. he then kills another embassy full of sith, as well as the best bounty hunter in the galaxy and the second most powerful sith lord in the galaxy as well as multiple sith knights sent after him, and an ocean base full of selkath. He then goes to kashykk or however it's spelt kills a forest full of insanely deadly predators including ANOTHER tentarak and then kills a bunch of wookies.

-Revan then gets captured by his old apprentice, kills an enitre ship full of sith, and then kicks the most powerul sith lord in the galaxies ass and make him run away like a little pansy, from there he goes to tatooine kills a camp full of tusken raiders, finds the last piece of the star map crash lands on the rakatan homeworld and anhilates an entire race of rakatan (either the black rakatan or the elders) as well as tons of rancor monsters (never mind that he killed one on taris without the force.) He then fights through a temple of powerful sith and assasin droids, defeats the second most powerful sith in the galaxy, kills two incredibly powerful jedi masters then goes to the star forge and destroys hundreds if not thousands of sith and droids, 3 very powerful sith masters all the star forge has to offer then kills the most powerful sith lord in the galaxy twice if not more,

-after that he regains all his memories tripling his power including what he knows from tulaks holocron (tulak being the greatest sith duelist ever teaching him tons of awesome saber techniques, as well as crazy rare force powers some of which can't be blocked.

-Just to give you an idea kreia killed the three most powerful jedi masters in the galaxy with a single hand motion and revan exceeded her by miles.

So in the end Revan is pretty damn impressive, please next time think before you post.

Originally posted by DarthSidiouss
but still.. look at darth sidious he took over the republic and destroyed it. everyone underestimates sidious they underate him. I believe Darth Sidious is the most powerfulest and greatest sith to ever live and the powerfullest jedi is NJO luke skywalker. The greatest jedi must be master yoda, because of his wisdom. But i still believe that sidious is better than revan. Yoda can defeat REvan. Revan is from the old republic, no one was skilled with a litesaber like yoda,mace windu,luke,ploe koon,obi-wan,annakin they might of been good, maybe more force powerful but i believe they were not that greatly skilled with a lightsaber. Yoda would win!

The jedi from Revans time were all better than any of the council jedi from yoda's except for maybe windu but even then kavar and vrook could both probably take him, yoda is the only one who would be superior to most of them and even then lord revan is still that much better, truth be told Revans era was the second best era for duelists next to tulak hords they all were experienced with extremely good force powers very good knowledge of multiple forms, on average a kotor jedi would easily pwn a clone war jedi and a kotor sith even more so the only reason they appear to suck is because revan is that good, sidious can't use half the powers revan has, doesn't have half the combat experience revan has, doesn't have the force or lightsaber knowledge revan has, doesn't have the lightsaber skill or technique, has less potential and is less in touch with the force, and other then three weak jedi masters that revan would have fried the second they walked in the door. sidious lost one fight and tied another, we don't underestimate sidious we merely know that he has no where near the force knowledge of revan, no where near the raw power of revan and no where near the lightsaber skill of revan and if he could fight yoda to a tie/win what do you think that means as far as revan is concerned, how bout that he will pwn afro that smilies just cool.

first of i think that revan can beat yoda. but all i want to say is this. yoda is like as old as my grandpa. imagein how many flips and how much more agility he would of had is he was young. but eveyone says that the anciet jedi are better then the jedi during the movies. the only thing i heard was in korriban kreia said that the very anciet jedi were stronger then the jedi at that time period. so where do you get this stuff?

Logic...

Experience against Sitting in a temple
real fighting against training
Lots of knowledge against less knowledge

Who would win? Logically the older one's.

Anyway. The reason Yoda can do what he does is because he has a great connection with the force. WHen he was younger he had less of a connection to the force so he would not be able to do as much.

Darth Frobo thank you for your information on Darth Revan you totally changed my opinion about him! But one more question.. how did he die ?

Nobody knows yet... Seeing as some big parts of his life are still being created.

oh i see. thank you anyways. so darth revan is the master of all ?

No, not the master of everything. He just learned a lot fought a lot and ruled a lot...

He's not a God like certain NJO fanboys would have you beleive about luke, but he's probably the best sith and is up there as the best force user, and he hasn't died as far as we know, I didn't mean to be harsh with ya there dude it's just I don't like people bashing someone they don't know about, don't worry about what i wrote before it's no big deal I was a bit to much of a jerk my bad.

Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
Yoda had to be in his prime during the movies as the only way he's able to do what he can is that he's extremely powerful with the force, take away years and you're taking away his force knowledge which means he'll get beaten by revans force powers easier, he'll have a much more difficult time doing his accrobatics or being as fast as he was as he won't be able to draw on the force as much as he was, so he'll be slower, less agile, less acrobatic, have less strength as he draws on the force for strength and more succeptible to force based attacks, even a younger yoda in his natural state wouldn't be as fit as Revan in his natural state, we're talking 50 year old apprentice swamp thing compared to a 30 year old in top condition in his prime... not much of a comparision and that's the farthest back we can go for yoda's jedi expereince as far as natural state is concerned he'll be pretty slow at 100,200 etc. especially compared to Revan.

Oh...well. I don't think so.
Yodas species simply doesn't grow old that fast like humans. Yoda is very old when he dies, even for his species. That would be 900 years exactly. So...I suggest his species simply grows ten times slower as humans do. That would also explain why he became Padawan at the age of 50 (5 years old for humans) and Master being 150 years old.

So you might say that he is in good physical condition even with the age of 300 or 400 years (30 or 40 years for a human) but would still have the knowledge and experience of 300-400 years living time. And for his force powers it's simply impossible to tell how much stronger they grew during his life. See...within the ROTS time Jedi Order he is the being with the highest medichlorian count except Anakin and we can't tell how much of his potential was already developed when he reached the age of 400 years. He could still posses more "raw" force power and force knowledge than people like Mace or Obi-Wan had at their peak. And he would be a lot faster if you assume that the only reason he can't kill Sidious fast even with Sidious having the high ground as an advantage (according to Lucas) was his age.

Now to your other points:
Revans fighting technique vs Yodas technique and size

First off: I doubt that Revan used a completely new fighting style. Most people think that Tulak Hord used form II basically with some own moves. Most likely he used a blend of form I and form II since form II would be crap fighting against multiple opponents or people that use a blaster.
And still Tulak Hord is only said to be the greatest Sith duelist known at the time 4,000 years before BBY. So we have no idea how good the Jedi are compared to him and we have know idea how good the Sith Lords that followed him were (Sidious, Dooku, Maul, Mace, Yoda, Obi-Wan, NJO Luke). We simply don't have evidence that Tulak Hord is better than them.

Coming to Yodas technique and style. Well...I argued on that point a lot of times and I will give you some reasons why I think Revan won't do that good against Ataru.
Ataru (according to "Seven forms of lightsaber combat"😉 was invented in the centuries before the events in ROTS. So basically it shouldn't have been around in Revans times. Well...as we see it's in the KOTOR games I would still doubt that this is a wide spread fighting technique. Reasons for that:

A.) Jedi at that time were only confronted with people using meleeweapons, blasters or lightsabers. Since they knew form I-III they had everything needed to fight such opponents - no use for a new technique.

B.) Ataru is obviously designed to compensate a lack of natural agility (because of age) or a lack of range (because of size). So the only persons using that style would be very old or very small Jedi - and almost nobody would master that style since it's quite useless during that times. So I wouldn't give Revan that much experience against that style not against "normal" users and not against masters (maybe Vandar was the ONLY master of that style at that time).

For the size thing (you asked me to explain that again):
Take a stick and hold it straight in front of a body and try a swing with it. Then try the same thing but this time try to hit a target that is about 40-60 centrimetres away from the ground. You will see that you will lose:

Range (depends on the weapon you use and your own size- something like 30 centrimetres for a "normal" sized person)
Physical power (about 50 %)
Speed (about 50 %)

And as I said: Every fighting technique relies on a certain amount of aggressive movements that are most likely assigned to the target zones you want to hit. If you assume that you have three basic zones to hit a normal opponent (and movements for that) a lower area (legs), a middle area (body, arms) and a upper area (shoulders, chest, head) you could only use your movements for the lower area to hit Yoda. Assuming that Yoda is about half the size of the lower zone of a "normal" person you can simply not use 2/3 (66.6 %) to 5/6 (83.3 %) of your normal attack movements since there would be nothing you could hit with that.

In conclusion Revan would lose:
10-20 % range
50 % physical power
50 % speed
66.6 % - 83.3 % of his offensive movements

Leaving him with a small advantage on range, less physical power than Yoda, less attack speed than Yoda and only 1/3 or 1/6 of his normal offensive abilities to attack Yoda vs an opponent that uses a style Revan might not be that much used to and uses almost 100 % of his abilities for offensive movements.
That are the reasons for me I would say that Yoda could waste any opponent in a lightsaber duel.

Force powers and force defence

I don't remember if I have said it before: The Jedi archieves on Coruscant remained the same from (at least) KOTOR times to ROTS times and their could be everything stored in it. We don't have an idea what happened exactly past the KOTOR days. Probably the Jedi had access to everything that was stored on Korriban (because people past Revan used it). They could have access to things that were stored on Malachor because there were Sith that survived the KOTOR times. They could have access to the things stored in the tomb of Freedon Nadd on Dxun. They could have access to the knowledge that was stored on Yavin 4. They could have taken everything that Atris left on Telos (a whole room filled with Sith holocrons).

So it is possible that Yoda knew about EVERYTHING Revan could do and he could throw everything back at Revan or absorb it. And I don't saw him get in any trouble deflecting Sidious lightning. He was in trouble when that huge amount of energy between them exploded but still he didn't get injured because of that. And I don't think Revan could throw more powerful stuff on Yoda. The energies that Sidious channeled were so powerful and intense that they ravaged his mortal frame. We saw what Dooku could do with his force lightning (throw Anakin through an entire room and make him useless for a few minutes). We never saw Revan doing something like that with his force lightning and we have to assume that the one of Sidious is even more powerful than the one Dooku used.

And if Yodas force defence works as I suggested it (stopping or redirecting movements within the force) he could even stop or redirect anything he doesn't know about.

For Yodas force powers: He could throw people through an entire room with it. He could slam people against walls so hard that they collapsed immediatly. He could lift starfighters. He could crush heavy armoured vehicles (hailfire droid) with his sheer willpower. We never saw Revan doing such things.
And still Yoda is said to be the most powerful Jedi ever (with NJO Luke as only exception) so basically he is stronger than everybody Revan had to fight possibly even more powerful than a LS Revan would be.

So even assuming both have an equal amount of force knowledge and a good connection to the force and they both are equal good in lightsaber combat, Yoda would still have the edge in a lightsaber duel because of the things I mentioned above. When my suggestions about Yodas force defence are true (thereby leaving Revan no opportunity to kill him before it comes to a lightsaber duel), Yoda would kill him in a lightsaber duel because Revan simply can't use anything he has against Yoda.

Nai I like your points and all but i'm not going to debate them anymore...

This debate is useless... The reply that will obviously come is that most of the knowledge was destroyed threw wars later on.

That Revan did have more sources and a far more advanced battle pre cog and that Yoda his speed would not help him all that much because he could still be blocked in AOTC and ROTS... In the end this is just a back and forward game...

For yoda's species, who knows there's nothing on his species so it's a guess at best , even then we can't really tell.

As for tulak, he's considered on wikipedia to probably be the greatest swordsman ever, so anything he'd have to teach would be pretty good, and it would make sense for revan to make his own style as that's why he would learn from the other forms otherwise he wouldn't waste his time he'd use only tulaks holocron, he learned from the forms so he could use strong aspects from as many sources as possible to improve his style.

Thanks for the size thing it expalins a lot but I'm thinking:

If revan knows exactly where yoda will be at all time with his pre cog won't he be confident enough to put his full ability behind his strokes as he'd know that he was going to make contact, never mind that any disadvantages gained from size can be supplemented by advantages gained by pre-cog.

force defense:

the tombs on korriban and stuff were sealed off with debris, from the fighting. the teachings of malachor were known only to Revan,kreia and the new sith assasins of the exiles time, and the exile destroyed malachor so no one could learn from it in the future as for before that, As for before that with the exception of revan no one who came to malachor resisted the darkside they all fell so none of it's knowledge would be there only, korriban was sith exclusive, the teachings with the exception of what revan looted for his personal use were all written in stone probably on the wall and such so I verymuch doubt that a jedi would be able to make it into a tomb of an ancient sith lord, past all the booby traps and loads of sith and then copy down all of this info all written in the ancient sith dialect and bring it back to strengthen the jedi without being killed by,sith,traps,or the spirtit of these sith lords.

As for attaru, vrook and kavar both knew it and it's more then likely that vandar knew it as well, and revan could kill them all, but that's irrelevant, I'm just saying chances are on more then one occaison he's fought an attaru user, qui-gon used it so did obi and anakin so it shows that it wasn't just for tiny jedi.

Force defense:

Maybe yoda might be able to block what he doesn't know about...but thats a big maybe and even if he can he's still lefy with two problems,

A.some of revans offensive force techniques can't be blocked.
B.Revan could throw so much much energy at Yoda he'd be overwhelmed, sidious nearly did it and he's far weaker then lord revan.

Assuming Revan chooses to let it come down to a saber fight, he uses what I beleive to be a better form, is just as fast and has battle pre-cog which makes yoda's agility and unpredictability useless and also gains advantages from that as well as it gives yoda disadvantages which pretty much supplements any disadvantages he might have from yoda's size.

Fishy's right this is pretty useless, but I still think revan would win it's just got to the point where we throw the same proof back and forth at each other and you don't seem to willing to budge and I simply will not unless you can present some new unbeatable overwhelming evidence if not this is just an exercise in futility.