Yoda(at his peak) VS Darth Revan

Originally posted by Fishy
You are so right about that Ninja statement... Kill a thousand people you could win kill a Ninja you would lose... You are so right here.. Only one thing, Revan killed a thousand Ninja's...

He fought the most powerful people and creatures of that time and beat them with ease. Jedi and Sith Masters Terentak who could kill Masters themselves... All in all Revan kileld the most powerful of Ninjas not just a normal 7 year old boy (btw you try fighting a 100 7 year olds at the same time and win... You won't succeed)

Revan faced hundreds of Padawans okay no where near his skill but still its going to be hard to do. He still did it.

And for the fourth time, VANDAR... he fights like Yoda. He's the same species. Revan would know how people like that act. And yes battle pre-cog would allow you to see people's movements before they even happened. Yoda fights through a style thats easily discovered and you could easily see how it works. Revan would notice that pretty quickly and with pre-cog he could block Yoda his attacks.

Very good point Fishy, but we also must keep in mind we don't know how Revan really defeated these people. It could have been with ease, but we know he must have ran into difficulty at one point. It wouldn't be an intresting story just to watch someone smoke everybody with ease. I mean we are going by a video game, in which has given everybody different results. Now if KOTOR was made into a novel, cartoon, etc. We could see how Darth Revan/Revan really fought.

Same with Vandar...we never saw him fight...we don't know that he fights like Yoda, its a good theory, but however keep in mind not every human Jedi fights the same either. He could have used other forms and techniques.

Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
-Visas didn't know any more than the most basic of basic sith techniques, her master had a complete disregard for sith teachings and he definitley wouldn't spend his time teaching them to her, and if she spent all her time onboard the ravager before she met the exile then that would be the only person who could teach her anything, and except for his hunger ability he didn't know jack all. as for her time with the exile, ultimatley her force abilities were the same as the exiles if you go by the game, and he didn't know jack all about the sith either, even kreia tells him he's not sith, the only chance he'd have to learn of sith teachings would be from kreia, which he didn't as a fact or from the academy on korriban, and look how dirt poor those force users turned out, Revan slaughtered them all without breaking a sweat and that's after killing two sith masters who were comparable to jedi masters from yoda's time, not all of them but at least some and two tentarak by himself one of which would easily destroy a jedi, even a master, 2 tombs full of droids, ajunta palls spirit, a bunch of animals, whatever they're called,uthars old master and a cave full of shyrack as well as sith students and that was at less then a third of his power so anything he could have learned from there is utter crap, visas even more so.

Oh great...Ajunta Palls spirit ? Jacen did own Marka Ragnos spirit. So Jacen > Revan ?
And yes. I know Kreia said the Exile is no "real" Sith. She just said that the "real sith are beyond the outer rim". So she herself is no real Sith, Malak was not, Revan was not, Sion was not, Nihilus was not. They all were children compared to the "real" Sith Lords. And see what they have done and compare that to people like Naga Sadow or Ragnos.

As for the best yoda to go by, it's Tpm,aotc,or rots as anything earlier wouldn't have as much force knowledge which is the only reason yoda's as fast and acrobatic as he is, So lets say that they're equally fast and that Revan's lightsaber technique is practically flawless which it is as is yoda's,even if yoda can block everything Revan could throw at him, which chances are he can't then that leaves yoda with his size advantage and revan with his battle pre-cog, Revan would know exactly yoda was going to be before yoda even thought of going there, down to the milimeter which means,

A.He'd always be one step ahead of him
B. Any advantage yoda gains from his size, is pretty much useless as Revan knows the exact place he will be at all times.

And I tell you the third time. Yoda doesn't gain advantages from his size. Revan gains disadvantages because of that. That is a small difference. Revan would have to fight with 15-20 % of his offensive abilities / 50 % of his speed / 50 % of his strength / while Yoda would be able to fight with 100 % of what he has. That is the point here. Assuming they both fight with lightsabers that have an equal length Yoda would even have a greater range when he stays on the ground.

I also seriously doubt that a jedi master using a form that has been used countless times throughout history, with a known flaw, despite how difficult it would be to exploit against someone who mastered it like yoda, against someone who uses his own form that after he dies is never seen again and is practically flawless, as there would be no reason for him to take any weak aspects from his extensive knowledge of the forms and tulak hords holocron.so chances are Revan has an equal or better lightsaber technique.

There is no unlimited amount of techniques to use. The use of agressive techniques will always result in defence weaknesses (example form IV). When you rely on defensive fighting you would have a lack of offensive abilities (form III).

Revan could have used a blend of that forms (most likely the thing Tulak Hord did). Still that wouldn't give him a flawless style because there is nothing that is flawless. For example you can't do an form IV or form V attack out of an form III defensive pattern.

-On vandar, he's supposed to be equally powerful to yoda, or just a slight bit less though I can't find an exact quote, and Revan was the best force user during his time, but truthfully I don't know enough about vandar to compare him to yoda.

Yoda is the most powerful Jedi Master in the history of the order. I'd say that Vandar is younger than Yoda (maybe something like Yaddle in age).

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Oh great...Ajunta Palls spirit ? Jacen did own Marka Ragnos spirit. So Jacen > Revan ?
And yes. I know Kreia said the Exile is no "real" Sith. She just said that the "real sith are beyond the outer rim". So she herself is no real Sith, Malak was not, Revan was not, Sion was not, Nihilus was not. They all were children compared to the "real" Sith Lords. And see what they have done and compare that to people like Naga Sadow or Ragnos.

You are right, Ajunta pall his spirit wasn't all that great unless of course he like Exar ate an entire race before dying 😛 Still Pall wasn't weak.

And I tell you the third time. Yoda doesn't gain advantages from his size. Revan gains disadvantages because of that. That is a small difference. Revan would have to fight with 15-20 % of his offensive abilities / 50 % of his speed / 50 % of his strength / while Yoda would be able to fight with 100 % of what he has. That is the point here. Assuming they both fight with lightsabers that have an equal length Yoda would even have a greater range when he stays on the ground.

Yoda has a smaller lightsaber however and when he stays on the ground he is weaker. The jumping thing helps him but like we have already seen in fights they can still be blocked and he will still have to block attacks. And that is from lightsaber fighters who are not as good as Revan is. Yoda his size would not make it impossible for Revan he could still hit Yoda and block Yoda his attacks.

There is no unlimited amount of techniques to use. The use of agressive techniques will always result in defence weaknesses (example form IV). When you rely on defensive fighting you would have a lack of offensive abilities (form III).

Revan could have used a blend of that forms (most likely the thing Tulak Hord did). Still that wouldn't give him a flawless style because there is nothing that is flawless. For example you can't do an form IV or form V attack out of an form III defensive pattern.

Of course it isn't perfect, the thing is however if its his own form nobody else would know about it and it would give you an advantage when fightning somebody. If he didn't have his own form he would have made adjustments to the one he used so it would still be hard for Yoda to see it.

Yoda is the most powerful Jedi Master in the history of the order. I'd say that Vandar is younger than Yoda (maybe something like Yaddle in age).

Yeah Yoda is probably more powerful, still that doesn't really matter what matters is that Revan has experience fighting against somebody like Yoda. Maybe not somebody of Yoda his skill but he would at least know what to expect.

first off, in KotOR II, it states that Kavar was the greatest tacticitan the jedi ever had. This brings up two interesting things, one being that Revan was still considered a jedi in the Mandalorian wars, so Kavar could have been greater than him (which I doubt), but either way, Kavar was somewhat close, which means that Revan was not head and shoulders above everyone else. He may be the greatest ever, but he still has rivals.

Also if you are saying that Revan is the heart of the force since Kreia says so, you should also believe that the Exile is stronger than Revan. I just beat the game, and Kreia tells me that I am the strongest she has ever trained, remember she also trained Revan. Now you may be saying that she said this to make the Exile feel good, get him to work harder etc. But she probably did the same thing with 'the heart of the force' thing as well. Tell the Exile that Revan is so much stronger to get him to work harder, doesn't it sound like something she would do?

And Frobo, the jedi did keep sith holocrons in the temple, yes it makes no sense, but you cannot argue with several books and starwars.com. The jedi temple had sith holocrons, probably just available to jedi masters, but they had them. Fact, accept it

By the way Frobo, what on earth happened to you to hurt you so bad?

Originally posted by Darth Plagues
First of all we have misunderestimated Darth Sidious. He is a powerful Sith...And Revan, well he is powerful too, but think about it. Most of you say he is powerful, because of the amount of people he has killed. Look at it like this.

Your on the street and this dude comes picking on you and then tries to hit you. Okay so you defend yourslef and in the end you win. So more pop up trying to beat you up, but you take those guys down as well. Now that we beat up a gang of people we have some arogance on our selves...so we go challenge a ninja. We die...the end. My point is...killing alot of people does not really give you an advantage, because everybody fights differently.

Nobody in Darth Revan's time fought like Yoda. Like, before someone tried to compare Vrooks form, which is the same as Yoda's and was trying to say plenty of people that used that form died. Yes, they did, but did they have the speed of Yoda? Did they fight like Yoda? No they didn't.

People keep defending Darth Revan by saying he could see Yoda entire attack pattern, before it even happened. That is just overly estimated claim. People that are defending Darth Revan in this matter have nothing more than a video game and quotes from people on that game. The rest is just a made of basis. We don't even know what form Darth Revan uses. And I highly doubt that he created his own form. Go watch that cutscene with Revan and Bastila again...you are suggesting he has his own form, because the way he twirls his lightsaber. That is not a very good reason.

-many people in revans time used attaru, and revan was better then them all, he also trained with vandar who was pretty much a yoda wannabe and he was much more powerful, vrook had master speed,vandar had master speed and he was more powerful then both of them, and the pre-cog thing is a fact, that's what the greatest of the echani could do and revans ability exceeds that of the greatest echani by far. Revan for sure studied and used aspects from tulak hords holocron which means he either,

A.uses tulaks form who is the greatest duelist ever, he was considered the greatest sith duelist and other than maybe NJO luke no ones saber form came close.
B. He took aspects from that as well as what he knew about the forms and created his own nearly style.

Either way it's that much better than attaru, also nai fohl all that yoda's size would achieve for him would be to maybe tire down Revan, but I seriously doubt that and could you please re explain where attacking an opponent makes your strikes less fast or less powerful, never mind that any disadvantages Revan might possibly have would be outweighed by the fact he'd always be at minimum one step ahead of yoda thanks to his pre-cog which would give him many advantages as well as tire down yoda.

As for the forms, you just said it offensive forms have defensive weaknesses and defensive forms have offensive weaknesses, but Revan would either use tulaks form which is superior to all known forms, or his own for reasons stated above, both of which will still have minor weaknesses but they'd still be far superior to any of the 7 forms.

Lord darkstar: Good points, I didn't know about the holocrons, it just defied common sense to me, but it doesn't really matter compared to the millions revan had at his disposal as well as the written teachings, the stuff from the tombs and the jedi archive on dantooine as crappy as it probably was.

he exile wasn't as powerful as revan, maybe kotor Revan but certainly nothing more, The most powerful we know of the exile becoming was at the end of sith lords wheras Revan had all that knowledge he'd gathered which like trippled his power if not more.

As for your statement about kavar the only thing I've seen about him is that he was a famous jedi guardian and that mandalore thought he'd be the one to lead the jedi to war which is why he thought they'd win.
p.s I hurt my wrist playing tackle football, I play triple A so the guy I was tackling was a beast and taking him down was no small task, especially on my own.

Nai fohl: I forgot to discuss some of your earlier points so here it goes,

-Connection with the force does not come with age, or even with experience it's partly based of your natural connection to the force and partly based on your knowledge of the force, we both differ in opinion about who has more knowledge and no matter how much proof I throw at you or vice-versa chances are it won't change and as for natural connection lets just call them equal even if Revan is,"The heart of the force" yoda is very well connected, which means equal speed.

Also Revan could throw much more energy at yoda at once then sidious with his full power, I know sidious is great but he's no revan and that critical level nearly overwhelmed yoda, now saying that they're fighting in a plain room, Revan continually throwing these critical levels if not overpowering levels of force energy at yoda would eventually kill or seriously injure him, sidious was full of energy at the end of that fight wheras yoda was panting and running away, don't you think that if he could have beat sidious and ended the sith threat right there he would have? Also if sidious would be tired out by yoda's size don't you think he'd be showing a bit more exertion? not only that but sidious was also able to easily parry yoda's attacks now consider what Revan could do.

Finally I'm just wondering, if Revan used his force supression ability that emporarily cuts those affected by it off from the force then wouldn't that temporarily nullify yoda's force defense? IT's irrelevant as revan could use unblockable attacks but ti's still food for thought, mmm...food.

I don't think Kreia was right in saying some attacks are unblockable, I mean she's wise and all but biased to the darkside. I think the light always has a counter for the dark.

You keep arguing that Revan's pre cog will keep him ahead of Yoda but admitted other Jedi knew pre-cog. Yoda probably knew pre-cog as well, therefore Revan's ability to know Yoda's moves is pretty much useless.

As for Revan's skill with a lightsaber, Wikipedia says Hord was one of the best and that others that compare are Darth Tyranus and NJO Luke and that Mace may have found Hord's holocron and studied it. If you say Hord's the best Sith duelist (better than Revan) and that Tyranus compared to Hord's skill, Yoda was kicking Dooku's A$$ with the lightsaber in AOTC in his old age on one leg. So if Yoda's in his prime with two healthy legs and can fend off one of the best Sith duelist he could probably best Revan because he was beating Dooku without much trouble, who supposedly could be compared to Tulak Hord.

-kreia was right for that, that's why no one was able to block nhilus's ability.

-yoda doesn't have pre-cog there's no evidence or references to him having pre-cog anywhere.

-dooku is not comparable to hord, he has been called the greatest sith duelist ever, better then dooku by far, dooku was a great swordsman but kreia says that as for lightsaber comabt everyone was like a child compared to hord, now considering how many insanely powerful sith there were before tulaks time tulak is a hundred times the swordsman dooku is, if revan, kreia and the exile are considered as mere children compared to him and they would all wipe the floor with dooku imagine how good tulak was, if you could find evidence proving that a jedi except for NJO luke could come close then I'd like to see it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulak_Hord#Hord.2C_Tulak

This page will take you to where it says Dooku compared to Hord. Its up to you if you choose to believe it.

Frobo, about Revan possibly using Tulaks form, that is impossible. Sure he had his holocron, but he only had one year to study from it before he went off to fight the sith empire, I don't care who yor are, you simply cannot master a form in one year, even if you say Revan still studied it when he was fighting the sith, so say 5 years, you simply cannot master the best form of all time in 5 years.

For Kavar, I was just replaying KotOR II, and I came upon this quote by the jedi with the weird name, I think others say it as well. I got him to say this by asking why he went into hiding, he said something like this, "It was Kavar's plan, he was always the greatest tactician among us, having seen more battle than the rest of us..."

About many people in Revans time using Ataru, that is unknown, and unlikely. Why is it unlikely, well, this was a time of great war, jedi would have used form II for battling the sith, and form III for battling the troopers. This is also somewhat shown in KotOR II, when you know forms I, II and III, but have to learn the others from jedi masters. This leads me to think that the forms you already knew, those that came back to you, were the most often used.

Wasn't Kriea way before Dooku? Anakin had to grab his arms and slice them off to win. Dooku is a powerful duelist who even stood up to Yoda in single melee combat. Sidious knew he would lose so he distance himself. And Revan might not have been a great duelist. It was a video game.

yes Kreia was way before Dooku, around 4000 years

See. Dooku is a master of an old lightsaber form that is unmatched with any Jedi...except Anakin as seen in ROTS.

Originally posted by Apex512
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulak_Hord#Hord.2C_Tulak

This page will take you to where it says Dooku compared to Hord. Its up to you if you choose to believe it.

-I've read that piece of info and if you take a serious look at it, it calls dooku a better swordsman than yoda as yoda isant listed as close in dueling skill...

- As for Revan studying tulaks form, there's two things about that,

A. He could have merely learned what was necessary to incorporate into his own unique fighting style.

B. Who knows how long he was off fighting the sith empire? for all we know it could have been 20 years, even if it was only 5, if it's the best form ever taught by the greatest duelist ever,(chances are) then it should be easy to pick up especially for someone like Revan who learned insanely fast, I'll go over the math again, If he can learn in weeks, lets say 3 what others can't learn in years, lets say 3 again then he can learn in 5 years what would take someone else 160 years to learn, if he was able to soak up all the knowledge possible from his sources which is what the game claims then he should be able to learn from one holocron in 5 years. And if you're going to say that Revan only mastered the initial training because he had gone through it before, thats simply untrue, he had no knowledge of the training it was only because he was so insanely strong in the force that he was able to do what he did and I beleive he mastered it the first time through as wikipedia says that on his first try he got his crystals to be perfectly in place like his second time, I know it's just speculation about the last part but who knows.

General zodiac: Kreia would still butcher dooku no doubt about that, she had knowledge of all 7 lightsaber forms and was so insanely powerful that she could have three lightsabers float in the air for her and kill the three most powerful jedi in the galaxy with a single hand motion, and Revan exceeded her in every way imaginable.

As for Revan not being a great duelist, sure he only killed thousand of jedi and sith thousands of madalorians and thousands of other solidiers as well as two dark lords of the sith when he was at less than a third of his power, including killing his apprentice the most powerful force user in the galaxy twice if not more, but hey I guess he isn't that great, look at the way yoda didn't kill dooku and didn't kill sidious (both of which had a fraction of revans power and a very small fraction at that.) the way he didn't win there sure shows him to be a better duelist, especially the way he ran from sidious. If your going to say it's just a game then I can easily say it's just a movie, where does that leave us? If yoda was smart he would've captured dooku even if it cost two jedi as it would save tens of thousands of other lives, and if he could have beat sidious he would have continued fighting or come back another day instead of letting him rule the galaxy for as long as he did, he could have saved countless lives if he finished the job, he knew this, so why didn't he? because he couldn't. now consider that Revan is much much much more powerful then sidious could ever dream of being.

Yoda wasn't in his prime during the movies, he was close to becoming one with the force. And in his old age he bested Dooku in combat and nearly beat Sidious which he could have done under different circumstances.

Yoda was wiser in his older age but not stronger than his younger self. He was more in tune with the force but its obvious he's not at his best because he limps, grunts when he walks, and he struggles in those fights not because his opponents are more powerful, but because he is not what he used to be.

Vandar is nothing like Yoda, so their of the same race, but they could have totally different forms. All humans don't have the same form. Mace fights totally different than most of the other human Jedi. Same with Yoda and Vandar, we don't know for sure that Vandar used ataru which is mainly how Yoda done all his acrobatics.

Yoda kills him easily, yoda is probally the 2nd best jedi of all time, 1st being Luke.

Originally posted by Lord Darkstar
first off, in KotOR II, it states that Kavar was the greatest tacticitan the jedi ever had. This brings up two interesting things, one being that Revan was still considered a jedi in the Mandalorian wars, so Kavar could have been greater than him (which I doubt), but either way, Kavar was somewhat close, which means that Revan was not head and shoulders above everyone else. He may be the greatest ever, but he still has rivals.

Also if you are saying that Revan is the heart of the force since Kreia says so, you should also believe that the Exile is stronger than Revan. I just beat the game, and Kreia tells me that I am the strongest she has ever trained, remember she also trained Revan. Now you may be saying that she said this to make the Exile feel good, get him to work harder etc. But she probably did the same thing with 'the heart of the force' thing as well. Tell the Exile that Revan is so much stronger to get him to work harder, doesn't it sound like something she would do?

And Frobo, the jedi did keep sith holocrons in the temple, yes it makes no sense, but you cannot argue with several books and starwars.com. The jedi temple had sith holocrons, probably just available to jedi masters, but they had them. Fact, accept it

By the way Frobo, what on earth happened to you to hurt you so bad?

Kavar wasn't nearly the tactician Revan was, nor was he nearly as powerful. As for your Exile being stronger than Revan, she knew Revan back when he was her apprentice. She hasn't met him since his power increased exponentially.

And sure, the Jedi probably had some Sith holocrons, but nothing like what Lord Revan had. A planet's worth and the valley of the dark lords, not to mention his Jedi temple, all three of these were destroyed as well.

Revan is O-V-E-R-A-T-E-D i read up on all the facts their is nothing special about him. on top of that revan was not a sith. neither was malak and a hole bunch'a other guys. they were dark jedi!Yoda is only second to one person LUKE!

Originally posted by Apex512
Yoda wasn't in his prime during the movies, he was close to becoming one with the force. And in his old age he bested Dooku in combat and nearly beat Sidious which he could have done under different circumstances.

Yoda was wiser in his older age but not stronger than his younger self. He was more in tune with the force but its obvious he's not at his best because he limps, grunts when he walks, and he struggles in those fights not because his opponents are more powerful, but because he is not what he used to be.

Vandar is nothing like Yoda, so their of the same race, but they could have totally different forms. All humans don't have the same form. Mace fights totally different than most of the other human Jedi. Same with Yoda and Vandar, we don't know for sure that Vandar used ataru which is mainly how Yoda done all his acrobatics.

Yoda had to be in his prime during the movies as the only way he's able to do what he can is that he's extremely powerful with the force, take away years and you're taking away his force knowledge which means he'll get beaten by revans force powers easier, he'll have a much more difficult time doing his accrobatics or being as fast as he was as he won't be able to draw on the force as much as he was, so he'll be slower, less agile, less acrobatic, have less strength as he draws on the force for strength and more succeptible to force based attacks, even a younger yoda in his natural state wouldn't be as fit as Revan in his natural state, we're talking 50 year old apprentice swamp thing compared to a 30 year old in top condition in his prime... not much of a comparision and that's the farthest back we can go for yoda's jedi expereince as far as natural state is concerned he'll be pretty slow at 100,200 etc. especially compared to Revan.

JediMasterLuke5: Welcome dude, it's nice to have another person posting, however if you're going to post please post reasons behind your opinion or else certain spiteful senior members will cuss you out pretty good, just a bit of advice man.

about vandar, it's not the style that revan would need practice against as thousands of jedi including vrook used attaru during revans time, it's that he would have experience fighting someone yoda's size so he would know what to do against small opponents. Good post apex and sweet pic.

That being said,
This topic is pretty much dead unless nai fohl can somehow come back and continue it for a bit otherwise, it's over. (imperial march plays in background)

Originally posted by Darth Plagues
Very good point Fishy, but we also must keep in mind we don't know how Revan really defeated these people. It could have been with ease, but we know he must have ran into difficulty at one point. It wouldn't be an intresting story just to watch someone smoke everybody with ease. I mean we are going by a video game, in which has given everybody different results. Now if KOTOR was made into a novel, cartoon, etc. We could see how Darth Revan/Revan really fought.

Same with Vandar...we never saw him fight...we don't know that he fights like Yoda, its a good theory, but however keep in mind not every human Jedi fights the same either. He could have used other forms and techniques.

We know Revan smoked them all unfortunatley, he was a master at killing jedi to the point where even in his weakened state he could easily fight through a star forge full of them then defeat the most powerful sith lord in the galaxy while he was drawing on the star forge, the truth is that we don't have much to go by other then that people say he was a master at killing and turning jedi doing so with ease, we know that he very easily defeated two tentarak at once at a third of his power tentarak who could destroy even a jedi master. Truth be told in the end we have all the kotor force users he easily destroyed, and quotes saying how great he was and how he'd perfected killing jedi so much so that he actually created an assasin droid and taught it enough non-force related techniques to make it able to assasinate any jedi, and that's just for non force users, he was a master jedi killer beyond any other jedi killer in history, unfortunatley all we have to support this is some quotes from a game and some stuff he did mainly how easy he did it.

Originally posted by Darth Plagues
First of all we have misunderestimated Darth Sidious. He is a powerful Sith...And Revan, well he is powerful too, but think about it. Most of you say he is powerful, because of the amount of people he has killed. Look at it like this.

Your on the street and this dude comes picking on you and then tries to hit you. Okay so you defend yourslef and in the end you win. So more pop up trying to beat you up, but you take those guys down as well. Now that we beat up a gang of people we have some arogance on our selves...so we go challenge a ninja. We die...the end. My point is...killing alot of people does not really give you an advantage, because everybody fights differently.

Nobody in Darth Revan's time fought like Yoda. Like, before someone tried to compare Vrooks form, which is the same as Yoda's and was trying to say plenty of people that used that form died. Yes, they did, but did they have the speed of Yoda? Did they fight like Yoda? No they didn't.

People keep defending Darth Revan by saying he could see Yoda entire attack pattern, before it even happened. That is just overly estimated claim. People that are defending Darth Revan in this matter have nothing more than a video game and quotes from people on that game. The rest is just a made of basis. We don't even know what form Darth Revan uses. And I highly doubt that he created his own form. Go watch that cutscene with Revan and Bastila again...you are suggesting he has his own form, because the way he twirls his lightsaber. That is not a very good reason.

Sigh* you're still making that up eh? You don't read any other posts do you? Now I bet pussy here won't even respond to my post, anyone want to bet on it? Here's plenty of FACTS on Lord Revan.

Revan has the highest level of Battle precog, has the Will power to resist the Dark side of an entire planet that no one else (not even Kreia) could resist, controlled a star, is perhaps the greatest tactician ever, has enormously high potential, plunders all the knowledge he could from the Jedi temples, he plundered tombs, relics, artifacts, and knowledge from a planet sized Sith storehouse of knowledge, learned dozens of ways to kill or turn Jedi/Sith, fights for 6 years straight as the leader of one of the main forces in the two different wars against powerful opponents, killing Mandalore and the strongest Echani, and was considered by Kreia (Revan's mentor who could kill three Jedi council members at the same time with one use of the Force) to be the heart of the Force.

Then he loses all that power and becomes a Jedi again, he plunders Korriban, including the tombs of four very powerful dark lords, gaining their artifacts, learning from Tulak's holocron, killing two tarentateks at the same time by himself when just one could easily kill a Jedi, he killed everyone in a Sith academy that he started, he killed the best bounty hunter at that time, a Sith Lord, he killed hundreds of dark Jedi and assassin droids, defeated and killed his apprentice Darth Malak at least twice in a row, and became even stronger than he was during his first reign (first paragraph).

Then he recovers all his memories and knowledge from Malachor V, the Jedi temples, etc. increasing his power greatly from the second paragraph, before he goes to fight the ancient Sith empire single handedly.

Now, stop falsely saying that we make up this stuff even though you think Ragnos can create anything with his imagination, yet he got whooped by Jaden, and was basically proven to be weaker than Exar Kun, and Ragnos hasn't done anything, let alone blow up a star with sith magic or control one or anything like that.

Again, I bet plagues won't respond to this post because I've shown he makes up whatever he wants about anyone and falsely says we make up all this stuff about Lord Revan.