IMO, the only one who can truly compete with Lord Revan is NJO Luke and the only one who can truly compete with NJO Luke is Lord Revan.
Others would be close like Exar Kun, Yoda, the Exile, etc. and others like Ragnos and Tulak we know nothing about except opinions. We've never seen them fight, use any techniques, etc. so they can't really be judged for their power.
A well it's been a good debate, nai fohl and darkstar have come up with some really good defenses for yoda and it's been close but it's come down to the point where we're just exchanging the same points over and over again to the point where it just gets annoying and repetetive, If someone comes up with something new feel free to post it but other then that it's just going to be the same old arguements all over again so we might as well let it die unless someone can come up with something new or amazing for either side.
yes I agree, it has been a good debate, with excellent points brought up by both sides (well done Emperor Revan and Frobo for defending Revan, if I forgot someone, I am sorry). I agree with what Frobo said just above this, wait until something new comes out, then we will know more and make a better decision.
ps. Emperor Revan, what are you talking about, Exar, Revan and Luke are all about the same. Plus in the Exar vs Yoda thread, Exar beat Yoda after one page, here its gone on for 20 with no winner decided, I think that if anything, Exar is stronger than Revan 😉, well I think that will be the next debate. So I'm off, thanks to all who posted here, it was fun🙂
Originally posted by DarthSidiouss
Revan is O-V-E-R-A-T-E-D i read up on all the facts their is nothing special about him. on top of that revan was not a sith. neither was malak and a hole bunch'a other guys. they were dark jedi!Yoda is only second to one person LUKE!
Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
For yoda's species, who knows there's nothing on his species so it's a guess at best , even then we can't really tell.
Well...Yaddle (same species as Yoda) is considered to be quite "young" for her species when she had reached the age of 477 years in TPM. (Statement taken from the database of starwars.com)
As for tulak, he's considered on wikipedia to probably be the greatest swordsman ever, so anything he'd have to teach would be pretty good, and it would make sense for revan to make his own style as that's why he would learn from the other forms otherwise he wouldn't waste his time he'd use only tulaks holocron, he learned from the forms so he could use strong aspects from as many sources as possible to improve his style.
Wikipedia only has access to the same sources the fans have access to. So that statement might be just taken from KOTOR 2 where Kreia said that he is probably the greatest Sith duelist ever. Still we have no evidence that he is actually better than people like Mace or Yoda (since they are no Sith) and we have no evidence that he is better than the Sith that followed him.
If revan knows exactly where yoda will be at all time with his pre cog won't he be confident enough to put his full ability behind his strokes as he'd know that he was going to make contact, never mind that any disadvantages gained from size can be supplemented by advantages gained by pre-cog.
This has nothing to do with confidence since it's no lack of confidence just lack of ability. Just see it like that. You have pre-cog on the one handside and lightning fast reflexes on the other handside. Making it look like that:
-Yoda wants to jump behind Revan
-Revan knows that Yoda wants to jump behind him
-Yoda sees that Revan moves as if he knows Yodas next move
-Yoda changes the direction of his move
-Revan knows that again
-Yoda changes direction of his move again
and so on...
the tombs on korriban and stuff were sealed off with debris, from the fighting.
Do you thing that people won't be able to get into the tombs by using the force ?
the teachings of malachor were known only to Revan,kreia and the new sith assasins of the exiles time, and the exile destroyed malachor so no one could learn from it in the future as for before that, As for before that with the exception of revan no one who came to malachor resisted the darkside they all fell so none of it's knowledge would be there only, korriban was sith exclusive, the teachings with the exception of what revan looted for his personal use were all written in stone probably on the wall and such so I verymuch doubt that a jedi would be able to make it into a tomb of an ancient sith lord, past all the booby traps and loads of sith and then copy down all of this info all written in the ancient sith dialect and bring it back to strengthen the jedi without being killed by,sith,traps,or the spirtit of these sith lords.
The Sith did fight with the Jedi from (at least) 3,000 BBY to 1,000 BBY (Battle of Ruusan) so whatever they might have used against the Jedi the Jedi in ROTS times could know about. And there were still people that posessed the knowledge of Malachor and Korriban AFTER KOTOR times...surviving Sith assasins, Dark Jedi, later Sith that travelled to Korriban (Sidious did so)...and so on...
As for attaru, vrook and kavar both knew it and it's more then likely that vandar knew it as well, and revan could kill them all, but that's irrelevant, I'm just saying chances are on more then one occaison he's fought an attaru user, qui-gon used it so did obi and anakin so it shows that it wasn't just for tiny jedi.
Yes. Sure. Every Jedi knows every form that's not the question. The question is if they used it against Revan, if it's their "usual" fighting style and if some of them mastered it. What the masters show against the Exile for example is not very impressive. And I would doubt that many Jedi would use Ataru vs a lightsaber fighter like Revan. Most likely they would use Makashi (form II).
Obi-Wan changed his style when he saw his master dying (form IV to form III) and Anakin never used that form (he was form V user). And still it was FAR more useful for Yoda than it was for Qui-Gon or Obi-Wan (at least both got their ass kicked by Maul...while Yoda with the same form nearly killed Dooku and Sidious without even being close to get killed in a lightsaber duel).
A.some of revans offensive force techniques can't be blocked.
That is simply not right. The only ability we have such a statement about is the special ability of Nihilus. Revan is not Nihilus. And Kreia is not Yoda.
B.Revan could throw so much much energy at Yoda he'd be overwhelmed, sidious nearly did it and he's far weaker then lord revan.
As I said: The sheer amount of power Sidious used revaged his body. How should Revan be able to throw more power at Yoda ? I think many people underestimate Sidious here - or they do overrate Revan. I know that Revan was powerful - but Sidious could channel more force power than there was in his body.
And I agree that this discussion is basically senseless now. I just wanted to add a few things. Still a nice debate with excellent points brought up by both sides.
One more thing... A lot of people here claim Revan is overestimated.... Right, looking at the surface it does seem like that. But one of the most impressive things we have ever seen. One of the things almost always used in arguments is the power to destroy a star if somebody could do it.
Keep in mind that Revan killed a very powerful Dark Lord who controlled the power of a star and chanelled its power along with the Dark Side powers of others into him twice at the very least. Then he controlled the same star and the factory better then anybody else and when he left and others tried to do the same they all got absorbed into the power of the Star Forge. Absorbed just died becuase of it their very power drained from them.
A lot of people seem to forget that, just wanted to add it. Because I think it speeks greatly for Revan and I don't even remember it being debated here.
-The confidence thing is a huge factor, the reason you put less speed behind strikes at a smaller target is because you're unsure that you will hit said target, if you know that you will hit said target you are more than capable of putting more speed and strength behind your hits making the size of your opponent irrelevant.
-As for pre-cog, we've pretty much already established that Revan's equally fast and or agile and if he's able to see what yoda wants do do before yoda wants to do it...
-Revan knows yoda will try and flip over him
-Yoda then thinks of flipping over him and attempts to do so as revan isn't dumb enough to give away that he already knows, so yoda then flips over evans head and Revan already knowing this promptly draws and quarters him in mid air.
I seriously doubt Revan would reveal that he would know where yoda was going and give up an advantage like that, even if he does yoda wouldn't know that Revan would know his exact next motion well ahead of time so either way pre-cog is a big advantage.
There were no survivors from malachor, kreia used the exile to make sure there wouldn't be, and any sith wouldn't be smart enough to strengthen the jedi order with knowledge of their techniques, never mind that most of them if not all of them simply could not have learned as much as revan had now include that jedi are banned from visiting these darkside worlds and you don't have many sources to get this from.
A.Kreia said techniques plural not singular so she was not refering to just nhilious's ability but rather multiple techniques, never mind that revan may have very basic knowledge of nhiliou's technique as he studied from all malachor had to offer so he probably came across it at one point.
B.Yes it overwhelmed sidious, but Revan is that much more powerful then sidious, he could throw more power at yoda, probably much more power and repeatedly, just because the amount of power sidious used ravaged him doesn't mean it would overwhelm one such as revan.
A.Kreia said techniques plural not singular so she was not refering to just nhilious's ability but rather multiple techniques, never mind that revan may have very basic knowledge of nhiliou's technique as he studied from all malachor had to offer so he probably came across it at one point.
Absolute bullshits, the techniques Nihilus used could not be learned by anybody. Kreia says so herself. Revan did not control these techniques otherwise he would have used them in Kotor. He couldn't have forgotten about them either because you can just use them or you can't use them. Its that simple.
Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
-As for pre-cog, we've pretty much already established that Revan's equally fast and or agile and if he's able to see what yoda wants do do before yoda wants to do it...-Revan knows yoda will try and flip over him
-Yoda then thinks of flipping over him and attempts to do so as revan isn't dumb enough to give away that he already knows, so yoda then flips over evans head and Revan already knowing this promptly draws and quarters him in mid air.
Revan HAS to move to do so. Yoda would see that and he can change the direction of his jumps even when he is already in the air. In this case you would end up with Yoda jumping around, Revan turning around and none of them would be able to attack the other.
And still Revan can be surprised...Malak did it, the Jedi did it and that makes me think Yoda could possibly do it too.
There were no survivors from malachor, kreia used the exile to make sure there wouldn't be, and any sith wouldn't be smart enough to strengthen the jedi order with knowledge of their techniques, never mind that most of them if not all of them simply could not have learned as much as revan had now include that jedi are banned from visiting these darkside worlds and you don't have many sources to get this from.
There could still be people alive that survived Malachor...of course they would all be "dark siders". And the Jedi could learn about things that were used against them.
A.Kreia said techniques plural not singular so she was not refering to just nhilious's ability but rather multiple techniques, never mind that revan may have very basic knowledge of nhiliou's technique as he studied from all malachor had to offer so he probably came across it at one point.
Nihilus technique is nothing that you can learn. Kreia says that in KOTOR 2 when the Exile asks about Nihilus power.
@Fishy:
Good point. But still we can't be sure if other people couldn't have done that too. We don't know how the Star Forge works. We don't know how much power it takes to survive or control it. Hell...that thing could even posess a kind of "own will" (AI ? dark side force power) to deceide who is allowed to use it.
I don't think so..
The Rakatan always used it but failed to use it when they lost their connection to the force they could no longer control them it just killed them. Bastilla says the same in Kotor 2 after Malak died and Revan left the Star Forge couldn't be used anymore it fell. A useless creation nothing anymore. It needed somebody powerful to make it work. Somebody really powerful.
Revan did still control a star there better then anybody else we know off. Okay we don't know how powerful the Sith were that remained after Revan left. But they were at the very least all more powerful then Bastila. And some probably by a lot. Maybe comparable to the Jedi like Kit, Obi and shit like that. Not the best but still quite good. (this is just a guess, but something that seems possible enough to me)
Originally posted by Lord Darkstar
yes I agree, it has been a good debate, with excellent points brought up by both sides (well done Emperor Revan and Frobo for defending Revan, if I forgot someone, I am sorry). I agree with what Frobo said just above this, wait until something new comes out, then we will know more and make a better decision.ps. Emperor Revan, what are you talking about, Exar, Revan and Luke are all about the same. Plus in the Exar vs Yoda thread, Exar beat Yoda after one page, here its gone on for 20 with no winner decided, I think that if anything, Exar is stronger than Revan 😉, well I think that will be the next debate. So I'm off, thanks to all who posted here, it was fun🙂
Exar isn't, Exar lost badly to Lord Revan. the first poll was something like 10 to 25 or so and the recent one was about 1 to 11 with Revan winnning both times. I admit he would be close, but I and others think he would fall short. Remember, the guy was arrogant. He was as full of himself as ROTS Anakin when he was a spirit.
As for the Exar vs. Yoda thing, no one really posted there much and I don't remember the poll, I will check it out. This fight here isn't much, just because it keeps going doesn't mean it's a good fight, Revan outshines Yoda in about everything and we have proven that. NJO Luke is said to be able to stomp Yoda and Revan is at the same level as NJO Luke basically.