Revan simply wouldn't let yoda know he knes where he was going until he was already there or on his way there so that way he wouldn't lose an advantage like that, revealing your moves to an opponenet is a very un revan like thing to do he simply wouldn't make that mistake, as for being surprised, only by malak and that's because he wasn't using it to see what malak was doing he was using it to help him kill the jedi from the boarding party, I don't beleive it works like the force where it naturally happens, I think you have to choose to use it. Even so pre-cog just supplements Revans lightsaber skill it doesn't determine it it merely gives him advantages and/or gives disadvantages to his opponent.
about the nhilous thing, I thought it was something he learned from malachor not a natural gift, must've forgot my bad.
That noobs vote for yoda and vets vote for revan garbage isn't exactly true, nai and darkstar are both vets and they defended yoda masterfully and I'm a noob and I defended Revan, there were a couple of noobs on both sides, more on yodas but there were still some on both.
This is time where if it was a real debate we all shake hands and go home, we'll just keep throwing the same arguements back and forth at each other it's getting to the point where we could probably predict each others posts in great detail there's nothing left to say or argue about we've pretty much come to the point where we let this thread die, so all I'll say from now on unless people come up with more points are good job guys especially nai fohl you've done awesome.
Originally posted by Fishy
I would still like to see what either of them have to say about Revan controlling a star and beating somebody who controlled it (okay a little less but still controlled it) twice at only a third or so of his power
Oh well...Revan controlled the Star Forge which received its power from a star. He didn't control the star itself. The Star Forge (at least) is a big machine loaded with force powers - an ancient artifact. You need much power to control it. Now I have two general problems here:
A)
How could the Rakata use that thing ? I know they couldn't control it but still they produced things with it. See...the Star Forge is basically a semi-living entity that can manipulate the dark side. And therefore I would say it just searches for the most powerful beings around to control it. That takes me to my second problem:
B)
How to compare movie characters with game characters ? What could the game characters do what the movie characters can't ? Would Yoda be powerful enough to control the Star Forge...possible. Could Yoda or Mace do what Revan did. Killing Jedi ? Fighting Sith ? Resist the dark side of Malachor ? I don't know...
Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
Revan simply wouldn't let yoda know he knes where he was going until he was already there or on his way there so that way he wouldn't lose an advantage like that, revealing your moves to an opponenet is a very un revan like thing to do he simply wouldn't make that mistake, as for being surprised, only by malak and that's because he wasn't using it to see what malak was doing he was using it to help him kill the jedi from the boarding party, I don't beleive it works like the force where it naturally happens, I think you have to choose to use it. Even so pre-cog just supplements Revans lightsaber skill it doesn't determine it it merely gives him advantages and/or gives disadvantages to his opponent.
If Revan wants to hit Yoda he has to move. There is not question if he wants to reveal to Yoda if he knows what Yoda would do next. He has to move. And that would be the start of the chain action I talked about.
And that pre-cog thing is not 100 % accurate. It doesn't actualy even give you the ability to see the future. It's developed by your fighting experience. The more experience you have the better that ability is. It's like guessing what your opponent will do next. That is what the handmaiden tells you about it (I just played KOTOR 2 again to take a look at that thing). Revan could guess very good - still he is not perfect. He can be surprised like all the Echani masters he killed were surprised.
It would help him versus Yoda but he won't know where Yoda wants to go before Yoda knows. He can just guess it. It would be like saying "Oh. I know the fighting style the guy uses. I know what moves master Vandar would use and that guy obviously is the same species. I might guess what he wants to do next." No 100 % accuracy. And so I don't think Revan could easily handle Yoda in a lightsaber duel (throwing in the other points I mentioned).
Still that is just a suggestion...Revan still would be a great duelist.
My conclusion would be:
If Revan can destroy Yoda with his sheer force power (I doubt it) he might kill Yoda quite easily. When it comes to a lightsaber duel Yoda might be able to kill Revan.
Might...
You have brought up some good points about Yoda, but if what you say is true then Yoda can hardly be defeated by anybody. And of course Pre-cog isn't 100% accurate but it would give him an advantage. Just like Yoda has one, and you have to keep in mind that other people can also block Yoda his attacks or make Yoda block theirs. Add a faster person to that, more power, better reflexes and more experience and you might have somebody that can cut Yoda in half... Or not, if Yoda is trully as inmortal as you claim.
I would still like to know if anybody ever fought a Yoda species and won and who it was... Anyways about that other thing.
Oh well...Revan controlled the Star Forge which received its power from a star. He didn't control the star itself. The Star Forge (at least) is a big machine loaded with force powers - an ancient artifact. You need much power to control it. Now I have two general problems here:A)
How could the Rakata use that thing ? I know they couldn't control it but still they produced things with it. See...the Star Forge is basically a semi-living entity that can manipulate the dark side. And therefore I would say it just searches for the most powerful beings around to control it. That takes me to my second problem:
No, the Rakatan did control it... They did until they started to get weaker in the force. Thats when they couldn't control and use the Star Forge anymore, the Rakatan Civil War started and the virus started appearing. The Rakatan lost all their power when they weakened in the and they quickly collapsed because of it. When they lost their connection to the force they lost the entire star forge.
B)
How to compare movie characters with game characters ? What could the game characters do what the movie characters can't ? Would Yoda be powerful enough to control the Star Forge...possible. Could Yoda or Mace do what Revan did. Killing Jedi ? Fighting Sith ? Resist the dark side of Malachor ? I don't know...
Hmm no, Yoda couldn't control the Star Forge but thats because he's lightside. I don't know if he could otherwise... First guess is no, not as good as Revan but i'm not sure. Still the Star Forge was described as a tool of awesome power, even if it didn't have the full power of a star. It could still mass produce droids in seconds that could each easily kill a normal Jedi Master. Malak controlled that power when he was defeated by Revan. Full star or not, it remains impressive.
Based on what? Dude, this is Yoda we're talking about. I mean, he was the leader of the Jedi Council. He could have used the Star Forge, but he wouldn't want to. The lightside is just as good as the Dark side, it's just that it restricts certain things. Not to mention, Revan isn't that strong really. He was just special because he was mind-wiped and made into a Jedi instead of Sith.
Yoda couldn't control the Star Forge becuase he was light, no light sider could. The thing is a tool of the Dark Side. Unless you are Dark you can't use it. Its as simple as that.
And the head of the Jedi Council? Big deal... Kreia killed one of those with a single move of her hand, it wasn't that hard to do. Its a nice title but being the head of the Jedi does not make you inmortal. Revan probably controlled more Sith then Yoda controlled Jedi and that doesn't make him all powerful. Just smart because he could turn all those bastards to the other side. So how about a good reason
Yoda in the third movie was doing OK against Darth Sidious until they he fell to the ground and Sidious was crawling back up the sentator wheel thing i guess you could call it. Yoda did understand that he wouldn't be able to win, so he went into exile. how bout we match Revan and Darth Sidious. Who would Win? Obviously, Sidious. Now if Revan didn't have the star forge, he wouldn't have all those extra sith. This isn't about who has more forces. This is about who could kill the other in a duel. So if we get rid of the star forge, jedi council, and everything else, we're left with Yoda and Revan. It would be close, but Yoda has more experience and would know what Revan's form and strategy are. Therefore, he would most likely defeat Revan. I understand though if i am wrong.
Sidious killed his master, Darth Plagues. Darth Plagues could create life with the MediChlorians. Sidious was his apprentice. A master like that would have created an apprentice that knew the force, lightsaber fighting, and ......control of the force...... Now, how do you propose that Sidious doesn't know anything about the force if he killed three jedi members when they went to arrest him. I understand you will probably say those jedi were bad, but Mace wouldn't have brought Padawans or something to defeat a SITH LORD. He would have known that if there was a fight he would need Masters. Sidious for gods sakes was the best Sith Lord of all time
Boy, all these newbs think this is a popularity contest. Dude, you know Sidious lies a lot. Put two and two together, he was most likely lying. And ther'es no proof of that so it's useless. Perhaps you don't know how strong Lord Revan is so here' some info.
Revan has the highest level of Battle precog, has the Will power to resist the Dark side of an entire planet that no one else (not even Kreia) could resist, controlled a star, is perhaps the greatest tactician ever, has enormously high potential, plunders all the knowledge he could from the Jedi temples, he plundered tombs, relics, artifacts, and knowledge from a planet sized Sith storehouse of knowledge, learned dozens of ways to kill or turn Jedi/Sith, fights for 6 years straight as the leader of one of the main forces in the two different wars against powerful opponents, killing Mandalore and the strongest Echani, and was considered by Kreia (Revan's mentor who could kill three Jedi council members at the same time with one use of the Force) to be the heart of the Force.
Then he loses all that power and becomes a Jedi again, he plunders Korriban, including the tombs of four very powerful dark lords, gaining their artifacts, learning from Tulak's holocron, killing two tarentateks at the same time by himself when just one could easily kill a Jedi, he killed everyone in a Sith academy that he started, he killed the best bounty hunter at that time, a Sith Lord, he killed hundreds of dark Jedi and assassin droids, defeated and killed his apprentice Darth Malak at least twice in a row, and became even stronger than he was during his first reign (first paragraph).
Then he recovers all his memories and knowledge from Malachor V, the Jedi temples, etc. increasing his power greatly from the second paragraph, before he goes to fight the ancient Sith empire single handedly.