Originally posted by Ushgarak
"Not Guilty" means innocent, as opposed to the long defunct (though not in Scotland) term "Not Proven."It is a total exoneration and means you can never be tried on those charges again, on the idea that the Court of Law has determined you did not do it.
Your last statement is not true. NOT GUILTY means the prosecution was not able to prove beyond resonable doubt that you are guilty. True, you cannot be retried for the same charges, but it does not mean total and complete innocence. If your statement was true, civil trials would not be allowed as it was proven that you did not commit the crime.
I gonna talk "feelings" now... 😐
I feel so weird about this whole thing. As a black man, I feel good when another (all be it, a much lighter and unnaturally shaded) black man finds any kind of justice in the legal system. However, MJ has built such a case for his own freakiness that it's hard to believe him.
I feel bad that his parents screwed him up real good, but is that justification for his extreme freakiness. It certainly isn't justification for molestation or improper actions with kids.
I'm pissed at him for having all that money and resource, and still managing to get in trouble (other than IRS).
If he still feels arrogant and self-righteous enough to have sleepovers with children, I think he should get the electric chair on the grounds of stupidity and general principal.
I'm a fan and think he's a genius. But I also know (like everyone else does) that he's deeply disturbed. Do I want him running around free. I just don't know.
I don't envy the jury at all. I might have locked him up.
Originally posted by Oswald Kenobi
And your argument collapses. If the average person is on trial, he has the right to a jury of his peers. And there is no one on earth with the right to pick 12 morally and intellectually superior people to serve on a jury.
And how are any members of the jury MJ's peers?
Originally posted by Oswald Kenobi
Have you ever served on a jury? If so, why did you not disqualify yourself, because you're just as "average" as anybody else.
I have been called to jury duty but was not chosen because, I believe, I was trained to be a police officer. Unfortuneatly for me an injury ended my career before it began, and the defense passed on me to sit on the jury.
Originally posted by Oswald Kenobi
Hmmm... and your posts trying to subtley imply that I am ignorant and living in a fantasy world shows great character. Childish behavior? I am stating my opinion of the tone of your posts. I don't have a problem with you, I have a problem with your pompous comments.
I stated that it must be great to live in a world where you actually believe that all is as it appears to be and that people in power do not make mistakes. You believe you live in such a world. You say that I implied you were ignorant, take it as you wish, you however took upon youself to call me pompous. see the difference?
Well, I guess opinions are like assholess.......
Originally posted by KharmaDog
And how are any members of the jury MJ's peers?
They are men and women who have no personal knowledge of him. In a trial like this, you aren't going to find true peers.
I have been called to jury duty but was not chosen because, I believe, I was trained to be a police officer. Unfortuneatly for me an injury ended my career before it began, and the defense passed on me to sit on the jury.
And you feel that being a police officer puts you on a higher level than a construction worker or a data entry clerk?
I stated that it must be great to live in a world where you actually believe that all is as it appears to be and that people in power do not make mistakes. You believe you live in such a world. You say that I implied you were ignorant, take it as you wish, you however took upon youself to call me pompous. see the difference?
And your intention was to be mocking. You're a liar if you say no. That's being pompous. No, I don't believe that people in power are infallible. You say I believe I live in such a world, but you don't even know me. Once again, you're being pompous.
Originally posted by Oswald Kenobi
Your last statement is not true. NOT GUILTY means the prosecution was not able to prove beyond resonable doubt that you are guilty. True, you cannot be retried for the same charges, but it does not mean total and complete innocence. If your statement was true, civil trials would not be allowed as it was proven that you did not commit the crime.
Actually, my statement is 100% true. Not guilty means innocent, That is its legal definition. As I say, it is in contrast to Not Proven,
A civil case can still be taken because that works on a different system, Even so, this is a glaring anomaly.
Sorry, but this is a basic fact. 'Not Guilty' means just thatr, You are not guilty- you did not do it. That is how the criminal justice system in the western world works.
Thanks.
The word "innocent" is being misused. "Innocent" cannot and should not be substituted for "not guilty."
For example, suppose that a victim of rape is so terrified by the event that she cannot identify the defendant as her attacker. Tests prove that the defendant was the rapist but, for some reason, those tests cannot be admitted at trial. At trial the defendant presents an alibi defense that the jury believes. The jury may return a verdict of not guilty although the defendant did in fact commit the crime. Certainly, we do not think of the defendant as innocent. However we know that these tests that prove him beyond reasonable doubt that he is the rapist, failed to make it into the prosecutions book cause of some reason such as a late filement or cause they were lost.
Thats why courts dont use the term Innocent.
and why on earth has this recurring problem of being quoted, with all due respect Ush, i feel that your contribution does not take apart my post.
Originally posted by KharmaDog
That's a very childish post, I don't ever recall saying that my opinion is the only one that matters, or that I am above you all. Don't resort to such childish behaviour, it shows little character, if you have a problem with me, PM me.
Please Big Evil don't post stuff like that.
No it is not. Courts find people innocent. Not guilty MEANS innocent.
Any point you make about possible misue or corruption is entirely irrelevant! LEGALLY SPEAKING, a person found not guilty of a crime has had his innocence declared.
Just because a mistake has been made, this legal judgment does not alter.
Originally posted by Oswald Kenobi
And you feel that being a police officer puts you on a higher level than a construction worker or a data entry clerk?
Actually if you read the post correctly, you would have seen that I said that my career ended before it began, meaning that I am not a police officer. And I did not say being a police officer would put me on a higher level than anyone else. Don't put words in my mouth. I believe that the defense did not want me on the jury because of the training and knowledge that I had as a result of going through the process to become an officer would not be benificial to his case.
"And your intention was to be mocking. You're a liar if you say no. That's being pompous. No, I don't believe that people in power are infallible. You say I believe I live in such a world, but you don't even know me. Once again, you're being pompous. "
Yes I mock, sometimes I joke even. No I don't know you, but you don't know me and yet still cast aspersions. So what's your point. And I think you mean that I am being arrogant as opposed to being pompous, except that last comment, that might come off a bit pompous.😉
"Then why do you feel your opinion is worth more than someone else's? And don't say "where did I say that?" Your comments speak volumes."
Everyone has opinions, and yes, some opinions are more valuable than others. Would you ask a crack whore about finacial investments?