water vapor is in X-men Forever which features Juggs, Jean, Mystique, toad, and prosh, and marvel directery isnt always the best source....if you want, in my opinion and my opinion only, a better source on a scientific level on his powers go here: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=340145&perpage=20&highlight=Iceman+Powers+and+Abilities&pagenumber=3
but still how the heck is he gonna turn supermans head into water vapors if he is invulnerbale. supes invulnerabilty doesnt stem exclusively from his aura. his skin , bone, and muscle tissue is still thousands of times denser than normal humans. thats why he can run really fast by pure locomotion. becuase his body can handle the exertion, meaning phhysical activities doesnt have anything to do with his aura. so bobby can turn into water til the cows come home. he'll be nothing more than A/C in superman's lungs
the only way that invading his insides can even be plausible is if he turns into water itself instead of the vapors cuz in the outsiders, jinx turned the oxygen in black lightening's daughter's lungs into water and drowned her from the inside and she was an invulnerable chick, but then again superman can expel air from his lungs in a ridiculously powerful manner so that probably wouldnt work either..i think maybe someone should come up with another way cuz none of this is working
Originally posted by manjaro
the only way that invading his insides can even be plausible is if he turns into water itself instead of the vapors cuz in the outsiders, jinx turned the oxygen in black lightening's daughter's lungs into water and drowned her from the inside and she was an invulnerable chick, but then again superman can expel air from his lungs in a ridiculously powerful manner so that probably wouldnt work either..i think maybe someone should come up with another way cuz none of this is working
Once Bobby got inside he could inhabit Supes own natural body fluids, he wouldn't have to stay in vapor form. Then he could wreak havoc on Supes cardiovascular system. I'm sure ice crystals and bubbles in Supes blood stream would cause a stroke, or the blood in his heart freezing would cause severe heart failure.
Supes would have no way of knowing because he's not telepathic.
Originally posted by illadelph12
Exactly.Which is why Bobby would kill Superman. His body metabolizes water. Bobby can become water. His immune system cannot distinguish between regular water and water with a disembodied mutant consciouness, they are both the exact same substance. Supes body does not defend against water, and Bobby's consciousness does not have substance and would not register as a foreign intruder or organism.
Again I think you are missing the point.
Once he BEGINS to disrupt things because that's the whole point isn't it?
To incapacitate Supes, THEN his immune will react and respond.
That's what an immune system does, dude.
Up to the point Bobby begins to tamper with him from within, Supes' body will discern and now that this isn't normal water vapors. It won't know that it's Bobby but it will know that something is trying to harm it and defend itself. Plain and simple.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Not bloody likely, Hydrogen and Oxygen are too small for photon's to react to in the same way. We can only really "see" these things by observing their interaction with other particles. And there would be more in the air than just iceman's particles. . .How can he do that?
Photons???
dude that's like particles at a subatomic level.
A molecule of water is composed of atoms, right.
Amolecule is much larger than an atom.
That's freakin' basic chemistry. Look it up and prove me different.
I am not talking about photons. Totally different thing.
I haven't mentioned anything about light particles.
I beleived he could do that because he was once in Star Labs analyzing a piece of alien meteor that was found but no one could analyze it properly because there property were unknown. They called Clark to checck it out and come to find out that there were subatomic microorganisms living on the meteor that later starting poisoning the air.
I assumed from that that he could but if he can't than fine my fault.
But if the guy can turn normal coal into diamonds, is that such a far fetched notion after all?
Originally posted by LordFear
Again I think you are missing the point.
Once he BEGINS to disrupt things because that's the whole point isn't it?
To incapacitate Supes, THEN his immune will react and respond.
That's what an immune system does, dude.
Up to the point Bobby begins to tamper with him from within, Supes' body will discern and now that this isn't normal water vapors. It won't know that it's Bobby but it will know that something is trying to harm it and defend itself. Plain and simple.
And what, pray tell, would his immune system do?
Purge his body of all fluids and send Superman into shock?
Iceman's consciousness would be one with Supes own body fluids, I highly doubt that his immune system would be able to do anything at all. His "immune system" would not work against psionic invasion, Bobby is not a foreign organism (bacteria/virus) invading his body. The immune system would really have no stimuli to react to, water and air are normal components of Superman's metabolism, Bobby would simply give this portion of Supes body composition sentience. When the miniscule ice crystals form in his blood stream or the blood in his heart freezes, there would be nothing his "immune system" could do about it. It wouldn't even be triggered. When a person has an anurism, the "immune system" doesn't stop the blood clot or air bubble in the bloodstream from damaging the brain, does it.
Originally posted by illadelph12
And what, pray tell, would his immune system do?Purge his body of all fluids and send Superman into shock?
Iceman's consciousness would be one with Supes own body fluids, I highly doubt that his immune system would be able to do anything at all. His "immune system" would not work against psionic invasion, Bobby is not a foreign organism (bacteria/virus) invading his body. The immune system would really have no stimuli to react to, water and air are normal components of Superman's metabolism, Bobby would simply give this portion of Supes body composition sentience. When the miniscule ice crystals form in his blood stream or the blood in his heart freezes, there would be nothing his "immune system" could do about it. It wouldn't even be triggered. When a person has an anurism, the "immune system" doesn't stop the blood clot or air bubble in the bloodstream from damaging the brain, does it.
First off. When he creates those little icy crystals you keep referring to, that's when his immune realizes that something is wrong and sends out antibodies(boy, you serious? You never heard of what the immune response is about?) to fight it off. Those little things called white blood cells or lymphocytes or Tcells or N-killers(really for cancer patients).
He is not attacking Bobby, fine I agree with you but it will fight whatever Bobby's conscienceness is trying to do to Supes body.
Second thing.Buddy when someone get's an aneurism, guess what?YES your body's immune kicks up and produces antibodies to fight it off but it's not always a sure fire thing. Why do you think doctors tell you to take an aspirin or baby aspirin once a day or every other day?Because the ingredients in it(salt derivitive) helps your immune when it produces antibodies. Oh and one more thing. Our bodies produce blood clots continuously every minute of the day. You know the reason why we don't all keel over and die? Bingo!!!Your immune system working 24/7 fighting them off hoping to prevent one of them to block your heart or brain.
i belive thats what antibodies are for. its basic principle. if youre being injured your body naturally reacts to try to help out. the moment bobby messes with a blood vessel. providing that he's even strong enuff to do it, you know since every cell in supermans body is charged with the solar energy that makes his aura, his body's natural defenses will kick in. the same way when Steel and Ray palmer went inside superman they were fine until they started bouncing around and then little superman shaped antibodies immediately attacked them.
remember in JLA when the white Martians staged thier attack by burning off the O2 in the atmosphere? it was superman who noticed with his microscopic vision that the O2 molecules in the environment is less than what they should be compared to hydrogen. and it wasnt something he discovered by accident the guy just constantly pays attention to every detail. the main thing to learn from that is he knows what differnt molecules look like so bobby could turn into whatever he wants superman is gonna notice.
just like magneto can tell when ppl are trying to sneak up in him or teleporting by sensing distortions in the EM spectrum in his vicinty, or the flashes can tell when ppl are near by sensing vibrations. superman has that same sensing ability(not the magneto one...that was just an example) its due to his heightend senses. eg. in Green Arrow when HAl as parallax decided to bring him back to life, he re created Arrow's body from a microscopic particle that was stuck on superman's costume(if you remember when he blew up in that plane supes was right there) hal made a comment to the effect that even though he would have more than likey washed his costume since then a microscopic piece of him was still there....anyway the point im trying to make is superman and batman was on a roof talking then all of a sudden superman commented that he felt something removed from him. batman was like what? and clark said that something microscopic just left his body.
lesson here, he felt something that small. so that put together with his abilties to see, and feel molecules plus sense vibrations bobby couldnt enter his system without him knowing it. also he is called iceman after all, so unless he's gonna decrease his atoms to room temp. im sure supes would feel him in some way or another....like i said A/C in lungs, and thats about it
Originally posted by LordFear
First off. When he creates those little icy crystals you keep referring to, that's when his immune realizes that something is wrong and sends out antibodies(boy, you serious? You never heard of what the immune response is about?) to fight it off. Those little things called white blood cells or lymphocytes or Tcells or N-killers(really for cancer patients).
He is not attacking Bobby, fine I agree with you but it will fight whatever Bobby's conscienceness is trying to do to Supes body.
Second thing.Buddy when someone get's an aneurism, guess what?YES your body's immune kicks up and produces antibodies to fight it off but it's not always a sure fire thing. Why do you think doctors tell you to take an aspirin or baby aspirin once a day or every other day?Because the ingredients in it(salt derivitive) helps your immune when it produces antibodies. Oh and one more thing. Our bodies produce blood clots continuously every minute of the day. You know the reason why we don't all keel over and die? Bingo!!!Your immune system working 24/7 fighting them off hoping to prevent one of them to block your heart or brain.
Funny, I always thought cholesterol levels and diet effected blood viscosity. I never new you immune system could not only detect, but break down an air bubble in your bloodstream. I bet Derrick Thomas's doctors wish they had given him an aspirin to strengthen his "immune system"...
I think you are confused Manjaro.
The "immune system" defends against foreign invaders and impurities, yes, but it would not defend against ice crystals or air bubbles forming in the body. Maybe the "nervous system" would by causing the body to shiver and increase body temperature to counteract the sudden temperature differential (for ice crystals), but a T cell sent by the immune system is not going to show up with a heater and melt the ice, it wouldn't do a thing at all, actually, water isn't a foreign intruder within the bloodstream. When you suffer from hypothermia, the "immune system" isn't what causes your body to shake and shiver.
Bobby could strike before Supes "immune system" or "nervous system" could react. Just enter his body, move to his heart or brain within Supes own body fluids or both simultaneously, flash freeze;
Game Over.
Also, on a sidenote (regarding aspirin and other pills boosting your immune system), there are studies that show it actually does the opposite, in particular taking pills like penicilin. What it does is inhibit your immune system from forming within itself all of the antibodies necessary to address the threat so that in the future your body doesn't have the proper defense within itself to defend against impurities, as well as the impurities becoming resistant to the antibiotics, which means you'd need to either take stronger, more expensive antibiotics and make the pharmaceutical companies very happy, or allow the impurity to run its course in your body and allow your body to create the needed antibodies and destroy the impurity, as well as store the new antibody compound in your cellular membranes for future use.