Iceman (full potential) vs. Superman

Originally posted by Superherovandal
hello not only are his outsides invulnerable and super-strong but his insides are just as potent. So why would the ice affect him?

Because water and air is allowed within his biomatrix, and Iceman can use Supes own body chemistry against him to kill him. He can attack Supes from within his protection. His biomatrix doesn't protect from posession or psionics, and it doesn't cause his body not to metabolize water, air, or food, so Iceman is one of a few characters that though thay are weaker than Supes, has a tactical edge against him.

my question exactly....about him being invulnerable inside and out that is. the man's cells are indestructable, i really cant get my head around superman getting a heat attack from ice. it it was super strentgh ice or something then maybe. its justy like you said about normal ppls Cenrtal Nervous System making them shudder if its too cold. supermans his heightened to a magnanimous level dude. the only this would work is if superman has been sunbathing in a red sun for three days

yeah but you still forget his entire body is super-strong. You act like SUpes needs food and water to live. If he did he would be incapable of becoming Superman Prime. I wonder how much food and water he would be getting up there? He only does that because if he never ate people would get suspicious plus it is a force of habit.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
yeah but you still forget his entire body is super-strong. You act like SUpes needs food and water to live. If he did he would be incapable of becoming Superman Prime. I wonder how much food and water he would be getting up there? He only does that because if he never ate people would get suspicious plus it is a force of habit.

That's all well and good, but it doesn't change the fact that his body DOES metabolize it, which means that his biomatrix allows it to enter into his body chemistry and cells. Whether or not he needs to eat or drink doesn't change the fact his biomatrix forcefield allows him to do it and metabolize it.

His biomatrix is not impenetrable.

The simple fact it allows light, sound, and psionics through proves that. Let alone air, food, water, etc. And I'm sure their are Kryptonian diseases as well that he'd be vulnerable to.

That avenue of attack is open for someone who can exploit it, it's just that there are very few that could. Only other person I could think of off the top of my head would be The Atom.

your immune system does not protect you from water. Or air, for that matter. Your immune system only protects you from pathogens and rogue cells. Basically, living things and semi-living organics like viruses. Not H20.

For the same reason, your immune system no matter how advanced wont protect you from heavy metal poisoning, swallowing acid, etc.

Yeah but he is super strong inside and outside too. His body is totally different from our own we don't know what would happen to Iceman for all we know he might be digested into atoms. And atoms aren't containing any molecular capabilities. Besides Atom couldn't do anything inside there. He would be stuck. Like I told you he is invulnerable and superstrong inside and out.

And he is obviously powerful enough to protect himself from poisonous gases in the AIR. When he blows them out there is no way to stop one or two from staying there.

Originally posted by shaolin9976
This is really no contest.

Iceman could use all his powers and he will still lose to Superman, just using 5% of his.

Easy fight:0)

Originally posted by illadelph12
Funny, I always thought cholesterol levels and diet effected blood viscosity. I never new you immune system could not only detect, but break down an air bubble in your bloodstream. I bet Derrick Thomas's doctors wish they had given him an aspirin to strengthen his "immune system"...

I think you are confused Manjaro.

The "immune system" defends against foreign invaders and impurities, yes, but it would not defend against ice crystals or air bubbles forming in the body. Maybe the "nervous system" would by causing the body to shiver and increase body temperature to counteract the sudden temperature differential (for ice crystals), but a T cell sent by the immune system is not going to show up with a heater and melt the ice, it wouldn't do a thing at all, actually, water isn't a foreign intruder within the bloodstream. When you suffer from hypothermia, the "immune system" isn't what causes your body to shake and shiver.

Bobby could strike before Supes "immune system" or "nervous system" could react. Just enter his body, move to his heart or brain within Supes own body fluids or both simultaneously, flash freeze;

Game Over.

Also, on a sidenote (regarding aspirin and other pills boosting your immune system), there are studies that show it actually does the opposite, in particular taking pills like penicilin. What it does is inhibit your immune system from forming within itself all of the antibodies necessary to address the threat so that in the future your body doesn't have the proper defense within itself to defend against impurities, as well as the impurities becoming resistant to the antibiotics, which means you'd need to either take stronger, more expensive antibiotics and make the pharmaceutical companies very happy, or allow the impurity to run its course in your body and allow your body to create the needed antibodies and destroy the impurity, as well as store the new antibody compound in your cellular membranes for future use.

Well to answer the first part. When you get hypothermia no immune system doesn't help but what does? Homeostasis(big word to say that it's your body's automatic response to regulate itself back to norm)
You don't think that based on what we already know from Supes that his response won't be as quick if not much quicker than a human?
SO icicles forming in the guy's bloodstream? Yes it will regulate itself and won't allow his blood to freeze over.
Air bubbles? There were no mention of that in your scenario.
Second-Whether these studies are new or in practice. Many doctors still prescribe aspirin because it acts as a blood thinner and by reducing the viscosity of the blood you aid it by not allowing clots to develop.
Bobby could strike Supe before his nervous system reacts?
Highly doubtful. Synapses fire at a rate comparable to that of the speed of thought which is interconnected by the way. You think Bobby will act quicker than the speed of thought? I sure as hell don't believe that.

Originally posted by FieryBalrog
your immune system does not protect you from water. Or air, for that matter. Your immune system only protects you from pathogens and rogue cells. Basically, living things and semi-living organics like viruses. Not H20.

For the same reason, your immune system no matter how advanced wont protect you from heavy metal poisoning, swallowing acid, etc.

I gotta disagree with you on that a little.
When you get lead poisoning, although you still get sick, without the immune you just would die. It appears that the immune ain't doing nothing but really it is,it'sjust that it's not enough.
Again people, stop comparing Supes's physiology to humans.
Basically we just don't know jack about kryptonian medecine.
How can we argue something when on the flip side of the coin, we don't have any info. One thing for sure is everything in Supe's body functions are vastly different from humans, so arguing what happens to us, is null in void when comparing to Supes.

dude its not like its iceman vs me or you, this is superman we're talking about here, where in the superman encylopedia it says that all his natural abilites are increased a thousand fold compared to average humans, you know what that means? a thousand times more equipped at dealing with foreign substances. at the end of the day bobby would still be water you cant possibly tell me that a little bit of water with no magical or kryptonite properties is gonna harm him. i would be more accepting if somebody had said that iceman tries to control his moisture on a molecular level, key word being try. but to say that he'll turn into water and wreak havoc in is blood stream is ridiculous.

and another thing, if bobby is gonna be plain old water he would still be governed by the laws of physics. meaning that when you ingest water it doesnt go directly to your bloodstream it goes to your stomach and then absorbed in your intestines then redistributed in your bladder, and fecal matter. even if bobby wants to go to his lungs what do you think is gonna happen? just like when someone is drowning or you choke on some kind of liquid, once it gets in your air passage you gag and cough it right back out. thats one of your body's natural reactions, and since superman is the kind of guy that can blow a hurricane bobby's water molecules would probably end up on the other side of the planet if he tried some dumb shit like that

ok in uncannyxmen.net its says this:
In the Age of Apocalypse, it was not Xavier but Magneto who founded and trained the X-Men, Bobby being among the first mutants he located. Magneto pushed the boy much harder than Xavier would have, making the youngster drop his humorous attitude and tap into his full potential. Iceman could alter his shape while in his frozen form, and merge with any body of water, moisture or ice, and re-emerge from it at some other points even miles away, within the matter of seconds. When Bobby’s ice-form was damaged or shattered, he could easily pull himself back together. On top of that, he was able to take people along by a process referred to as moisture molecular inversion, but it was rather unpleasant for the passenger.

why couldnt he do the same to Superman? if he can take anyone and make them into "water vapor" why not portions of a person.....

also if you go here
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=340145&perpage=20&highlight=Iceman+Powers+and+Abilities&pagenumber=3
its a description on a scientific level of Bobbys powers that I found somewere a long time ago....it talks about how Bobby in essence just doesnt "create" ice....he slows the motion of molecules and can stop them if need be, thats how he freezes things.....so what if instead of making the area around Supes "cold" or just hitting him with ice, he actually stopped the motion of Supermans molecules?? i mean he may be denser, but he still composed of molecules and atoms right?? and he could do this all from the air were superman couldnt hit him...

heres a pic of aoa iceman talking about how unpleasent mouisture inversion is for otheres

Originally posted by Blair Wind
ok in uncannyxmen.net its says this:
In the Age of Apocalypse, it was not Xavier but Magneto who founded and trained the X-Men, Bobby being among the first mutants he located. Magneto pushed the boy much harder than Xavier would have, making the youngster drop his humorous attitude and tap into his full potential. Iceman could alter his shape while in his frozen form, and merge with any body of water, moisture or ice, and re-emerge from it at some other points even miles away, within the matter of seconds. When Bobby’s ice-form was damaged or shattered, he could easily pull himself back together. On top of that, he was able to take people along by a process referred to as moisture molecular inversion, but it was rather unpleasant for the passenger.

why couldnt he do the same to Superman? if he can take anyone and make them into "water vapor" why not portions of a person.....

also if you go here
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=340145&perpage=20&highlight=Iceman+Powers+and+Abilities&pagenumber=3
its a description on a scientific level of Bobbys powers that I found somewere a long time ago....it talks about how Bobby in essence just doesnt "create" ice....he slows the motion of molecules and can stop them if need be, thats how he freezes things.....so what if instead of making the area around Supes "cold" or just hitting him with ice, he actually stopped the motion of Supermans molecules?? i mean he may be denser, but he still composed of molecules and atoms right?? and he could do this all from the air were superman couldnt hit him...

heres a pic of aoa iceman talking about how unpleasent mouisture inversion is for otheres

Hmm...

Nice B.W.

Also, for the other counters, once Iceman enters Supes body, he doesn't have to stay in the same portion of water/mist he entered in, he can become one with all of the fluids in Supes body and move around just as freely as they do by tranfering his consciousness into them, which means he can move into Supes cells just as water does, bypassing his biomatrix. All he has to do is get inside of Supes body and he has multiple options of killing Supes, and Supes wouldn't even know he was there.

Again how the hell can we compare that to an alien?
These feats that Bobby can do are towards humans/mutants where there make up are pretty much the same but you are talking about a Kryptonian. I mean how hard is to to understand. It's comparing apples and oranges. Do you think Bobby could do that to an eternal, titan, inhuman or a celestrial, kree, shiar or other countless races?
We just don't know cuz it's never been done and those feats are pertaining to humans/mutants. I mean were seriously beating a dead horse here people. C'mon already!!!

Originally posted by LordFear
Again how the hell can we compare that to an alien?
These feats that Bobby can do are towards humans/mutants where there make up are pretty much the same but you are talking about a Kryptonian. I mean how hard is to to understand. It's comparing apples and oranges. Do you think Bobby could do that to an eternal, titan, inhuman or a celestrial, kree, shiar or other countless races?
We just don't know cuz it's never been done and those feats are pertaining to humans/mutants. I mean were seriously beating a dead horse here people. C'mon already!!!

Are you talking the inversion angle or the inhabiting the body fluids and attacking from within angle L.F.?

Either way, it's not a matter of his physiology, it's a matter of his body composition.

The "inversion" (stopping the motion of atoms) should work regardless of what species Superman is because his body is still composed of atoms and molecules, it would simply be a matter of Iceman bypassing his biomatrix to do it, which he could do by inhabiting the moisture of Supes own body, then stopping the motion of Supes atoms from the fluid in his cells.

The "attack and freeze his brain/heart/both simultaneously from within" attack should also work if Iceman can bypass Supes biomatrix by inhabiting Supes body fluids. I don't think his body could react before Bobby acts, no matter how fast his brain impulse fires. He can't react until the stimuli becomes present and by then he's already dead from a simultaneous stroke and heart attack.

Bobby could also steal all the moisture from Supes body and use it to create a new body for himself by inhabiting it and drawing it out of him at a cellular level. That would kill him also.

Hello we don't even know if Iceman can pass his bioaura which i doubt.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
Hello we don't even know if Iceman can pass his bioaura which i doubt.

Yes, we do:

Superman breathes air and drinks water, and his body metabolizes them both, which means that Bobby has a way inside of Superman's biomatrix by inhabiting the moisture Supes naturally intakes, then attacking when he gets inside.

Then why is he not affected by poison gas?

Originally posted by illadelph12
Yes, we do:

Superman breathes air and drinks water, and his body metabolizes them both, which means that Bobby has a way inside of Superman's biomatrix by inhabiting the moisture Supes naturally intakes, then attacking when he gets inside.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
Then why is he not affected by poison gas?