Originally posted by Allankles
But he still only affects thermal energy, how does this eliminate H2O? He controls the reactions, not the substances reacting, this can be accomplished using H20 molecules absorbing the heat from the reactants.
I didnt go all the way back to where this particular instance was mentioned, but with this post, are you debating whether or not Bobby can eliminate all h2o from ones body?
I dont think it really matters, Bobby controlls thermal energy via H20 molecules. Supes is literally a sun reactor both internally and externally with complete psionic control over his own energy. This pretty much executes any potential"freezing"effect bobby would have on clark, bobby really doesn't have any other options in this fight.
Originally posted by snyper1982You missed the point.
I don't know that he can hurt him while he is ice, hence the word possibly. As far as an explosion not hurting him, well supes can cause a lot more damage than an explosion. It would not be in Bobby's best interest to take on Clark physically.
He was blown up while in human form and reformed into ice.
I have a question. It was stated several times over the years that Supes body is like a sun reactor or something similar to the wording. It has also been stated and just recently stated that he has full control over his energy. Full control over his energy meaning what? Can supes heat up his body if he were to get frozen in a case of ice? Id understand if he were to stand in the arctic and just warm up by absorbing the suns rays that hit him, but what if those sun rays never hit him? Im sure this has been brought up, but id like to know the answer.
Originally posted by h1a8
First you were a debater now you are a con artist. Iceman never reached absolute zero under his own power. I've seen the scan and know what you are talking about. You just need to be honest.Other scans has bobby even admit that he can only come within a spitting distance of absolute zero on a good day. I wonder what he can do on a bad day.
Also bobby can only manipulate h2o molecules. There is no proof that Superman even has any of those in his makeup.
Sigh, if you read my post right under the one you quoted which I made a quote of Blair that explained the situation and reasoning... 😱
Like this below... As I did not hide anything 🙄
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Blair Wind
I think clothes should suffice. It may seem small but it is still inanimate and full of cloth, texture, ect.
Heres the only scan I have available on the matter since Im not on my computer, and its not much. He is just referencing it on how he is going to get the group to Maine (the indirect reference being Moisture Inversion) :
http://img332.imageshack.us/my.php?...cemanaoa0wm.jpg
All other scans I have are of him doing it to himself only, though he did have clothes on...
The absolute zero event happened when Torchs wife is trapped and Iceman is helping save her. Torch is about to melt the trigger, but Iceman stops him after he noticed that theres a sensor that would detonate if the trigger is melted or removed.
Iceman decides to freeze the trigger to absolute zero to stop it. He mentions that he needs to freeze it to where all molecular motion stops. Although he did get help from Torch by absorbing the ambient heat, that was only to make the temp drop happen faster. No doubts Iceman could have done it alone. It just probably would have took longer. Enjoy.
http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mcp7432sa1.jpg
http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mcp7433el4.jpg
For point of reference, he has shut down chemical reactions to both the Black Bird and Sunfire
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Originally posted by shokosugi
OWNED!
gasps,.. Clever 🙄
Originally posted by LDHZenkai
Superman has no water in him! His blood is made up of diamonds! Plasma is 90% water guy. In all living creatures. So until DC says that's not true in their universe we'll just assume it is. And full potential iceman can reach lower temperatures than normal iceman. Which is what this thread is about. It's about him mastering his power. His power isn't turning cold. It's thermal manipulation and stopping molecular movement. At least that's what it is according to the guys who write his stories. But hey maybe you're right....i mean...we can take your word on it since no superman supporters have provided any scans showing that superman is resistant to cold...only ones where he said "i can feel my blood slowing" while he was being frozen with a single blast from a bald kid.
Great post LDHZenkai 👆
Yes anything can happen in comics but we dont jump logic and conclude something ludicrous like his blood is chocolate milk.. We still use logic to the most extent in can be used in debating.
Logic says if there is anything in his body that would harm a human than it would harm superman the times he lost his powers on earth... Or we could go with your he has chocolate milk for blood.. Do you see what I'm saying... You want to only apply logic when it suits you and ignore it when it does not...
If Clark uses water for moisture when he does not have his powers. The next logical step would be to assume when he has his powers his body retains his h20 or makes its own.. It would be illogical to start out with the assumption that its not h20 when he already uses it to hydrate himself...
Originally posted by Allankles
Iceman's abilities with regards to the Kinetic energy in molecules, is limited to reduction of energy, and even then only through manipulation of H2O molecules by reducing the thermal energy said molecules absorb.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Not true. He is limited to recuding energy but he isn't limited to water molecules.
Iceman has froze heat vision before I mean c'mon there is nothing superman is going to be able to do to stop Iceman..
Originally posted by VanloreI already disproved your notion of this yet you didn't address it. I said that drinking water doesn't necessarily mean one is made of water. It is possible that a being can break the chemical bonds of water or any other food they consume during digestion only to form a new chemical in which they are made out of.
Great post LDHZenkai 👆Yes anything can happen in comics but we dont jump logic and conclude something ludicrous like his blood is chocolate milk.. We still use logic to the most extent in can be used in debating.
Logic says if there is anything in his body that would harm a human than it would harm superman the times he lost his powers on earth... Or we could go with your he has chocolate milk for blood.. Do you see what I'm saying... You want to only apply logic when it suits you and ignore it when it does not...
If Clark uses water for moisture when he does not have his powers. The next logical step would be to assume when he has his powers his body retains his h20 or makes its own.. It would be illogical to start out with the assumption that its not h20 when he already uses it to hydrate himself...
Also it is possible for Clark's body to have a totally different composition than he does when he is powerless. So your logic isn't sound. Clark as Superman can be transformed to be made out of adamantium with blood being made out of iron nitrate and as powerless Clark his blood reduces to mere a ammonia compound.
So stop with your chocolate milk routine. No one is saying he is made out of chocolate milk. We are saying that he isn't necessarily made out of h2o molecules. He can be made out of any number of things. And since this is comics he can be made out of an infinite number of things (including the imaginary). Isn't adamantium an imaginary man made up substance? So Superman can be made out of xyzlipic for all we know. This is comics.
Iceman has froze heat vision before I mean c'mon there is nothing superman is going to be able to do to stop Iceman..
Iceman freezes the area surrounding the heat vision which means he is indirectly freezing the heat vision. Now it may be ludicrous even thinking about freezing heat vision. But this is comics and stuff like this is possible. It is also possible for heat vision to be made out of mass in comics (since it has large concussive properties). Thus maybe some made of some water vapor molecules huh?
Originally posted by LDHZenkaiThe bald kid was actually a New God, using New God tech to put Superman into a chrono stasis. Molecular suspension akin to what you just claim Iceman's power is. The 'freeze' is what happens of course, when molocules slow down. Superman fought it off the whole time, and snapped out of it rather easily.
Superman has no water in him! His blood is made up of diamonds! Plasma is 90% water guy. In all living creatures. So until DC says that's not true in their universe we'll just assume it is. And full potential iceman can reach lower temperatures than normal iceman. Which is what this thread is about. It's about him mastering his power. His power isn't turning cold. It's thermal manipulation and stopping molecular movement. At least that's what it is according to the guys who write his stories. But hey maybe you're right....i mean...we can take your word on it since no superman supporters have provided any scans showing that superman is resistant to cold...only ones where he said "i can feel my blood slowing" while he was being frozen with a single blast from a bald kid.
Cold doesn't stop Superman.
Molecular suspension doesn't stop Superman.
The burden of proof is on you, as I see it. Since it's fairly clear that Bobby's powers mostly don't help him here.
Best he'll do is slow Superman down.
Now, I'm not sure Superman has the normal means to stop Bobby either in a endless featureless arena, but in a normal setting, pretty much any normal setting. He'll find a way to deal with Bobby before the other way around.
Originally posted by h1a8
I already disproved your notion of this yet you didn't address it. I said that drinking water doesn't necessarily mean one is made of water. It is possible that a being can break the chemical bonds of water or any other food they consume during digestion only to form a new chemical in which they are made out of.Also it is possible for Clark's body to have a totally different composition than he does when he is powerless. So your logic isn't sound. Clark as Superman can be transformed to be made out of adamantium with blood being made out of iron nitrate and as powerless Clark his blood reduces to mere a ammonia compound.
So stop with your chocolate milk routine. No one is saying he is made out of chocolate milk. We are saying that he isn't necessarily made out of h2o molecules. He can be made out of any number of things. And since this is comics he can be made out of an infinite number of things (including the imaginary). Isn't adamantium an imaginary man made up substance? So Superman can be made out of xyzlipic for all we know. This is comics.
You never disproved anything..
Saying it could be this or that and its a comic does not disprove anything. All you said was poor speculation with no legs to stand on..
This is comics but we still use logic to debate. Your entire reason for saying he is using xyzlipic (chocolate milk) for hydration is no reason to assume it at all. You think this is the most logical next step? 🙄
You just said Clark does not need to drink water without his powers to stay hydrated. That is just plain wrong.. If your going to just throw it out there with no logical reason and say no he does not use h20 for hydration than you need to tell me what substance you are going to replace this with... wowzers its a comic is not a logical reason to say he does not use h20 for hydration. It is only a way to say yeah comics are not always logical but what you don't get is the debates are supposed to be reasoned with logic.
And you are the one who needs to stop with the chocolate milk routine because thats exactly what your doing.. You keep saying his blood could be made of iron nitrate (chocolate milk) or whatever. Just pull anything out of thin air and its made of (insert here).
See your missing the point. You keep saying it could be and yes I agree his blood could be made out of anything because comics don't always follow logic. But what your missing is WHAT reason would you have us believe that he uses something besides h2o to hydrate himself? Since a debate must come to a conclusion there are aspects of any comic book debate that requires speculation.
Me and you are BOTH speculating The difference is this...
. My speculation that Clark uses h20 for hydration is based from the fact that most life we know of and in the comics as well uses h2o to hydrate and also from the fact that when Clark has no powers he needs to drink water or he will die.. Thus when he has powers he must produce it himself or recycle it.
Your speculation has yet to provide a logical reason to assume he uses (insert instant kill Cleark with no powers) instead of h20. Give a logical reason that would override my obvious reason to assume that he uses h20.
And I don't mean your usual (its a comic book) because this is something we can use to justify anything. I gave you logical explanation for him using h20 so my speculation has legs to stand on.
Your speculation that he does not use h20 is only standing on this one statement (Its a comic book) Do you see the difference here?
Originally posted by VanloreNot sure the point of that part of the debate you guys are having... We're talking SUPERMAN, not powerless Clark here. SUPERMAN needs no food or water to survive. The sun provides pretty much everything he needs. It works as a catalyst to his powers, and then as the scan I posted way back in the thread suggests. His body begins to split atoms into PURE ENERGY that his being actually runs off of.
You just said Clark does not need to drink water without his powers to stay hydrated. That is just plain wrong.. If your going to just throw it out there with no logical reason and say no he does not use h20 for hydration than you need to tell me what substance you are going to replace this with... wowzers its a comic is not a logical reason to say he does not use h20 for hydration. It is only a way to say yeah comics are not always logical but what you don't get is the debates are supposed to be reasoned with logic.
It's pretty well established in continuity that he needs no food, water, or sleep, he only occasionally uses them as part of his mask to feel more human.
But what it really comes down to is this;
Originally posted by Juntai
The bald kid was actually a New God, using New God tech to put Superman into a chrono stasis. Molecular suspension akin to what you just claim Iceman's power is. The 'freeze' is what happens of course, when molocules slow down. Superman fought it off the whole time, and snapped out of it rather easily.Cold doesn't stop Superman.
Molecular suspension doesn't stop Superman.
The burden of proof is on you, as I see it. Since it's fairly clear that Bobby's powers mostly don't help him here.
Best he'll do is slow Superman down.
Now, I'm not sure Superman has the normal means to stop Bobby either in a endless featureless arena, but in a normal setting, pretty much any normal setting. He'll find a way to deal with Bobby before the other way around.
off the gun, superman could always pull something like this:
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/148/toxictospacemi4.jpg
Originally posted by TrackzWhich wouldn't do anything since Supes has no way of trapping Iceman's consciousness in the vortex.
off the gun, superman could always pull something like this:
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/148/toxictospacemi4.jpg
Originally posted by Allankles
true. The speed force deals with pure Kinetic energy (increasing it or decreasing it) it is a mystical force.Iceman's abilities with regards to the Kinetic energy in molecules, is limited to reduction of energy, and even then only through manipulation of H2O molecules by reducing the thermal energy said molecules absorb.
Supes has already dealt with such beings and shown an ability to willfully resist such kinetic manipulations.
100% False.
1. Iceman's ability to manipulate thermal temperatures do not depend on H20. Please try to prove this BS statement.
2. Superman has blood running through his veins like when he was bleeding all over the place vs Doomsday. If there is liquid in your veins, whether its H20, Chocolate Milk, Grape juice, Enfamil, or Piss...
Standard Iceman can freeze it solid.
Originally posted by horrorwolf
100% False.1. Iceman's ability to manipulate thermal temperatures do not depend on H20. Please try to prove this BS statement.
2. Superman has blood running through his veins like when he was bleeding all over the place vs Doomsday. If there is liquid in your veins, whether its H20, Chocolate Milk, Grape juice, Enfamil, or Piss...
Standard Iceman can freeze it solid.
So you have evidence to contradict canon sources books and such (like Marvel sites) which list his thermal abilities as depending on manipulation of water molecules? And Supes can resisted thermal energy reduction, he has a track record for this type of thing.
Originally posted by Allankles
So you have evidence to contradict canon sources books and such (like Marvel sites) which list his thermal abilities as depending on manipulation of water molecules? And Supes can resisted thermal energy reduction, he has a track record for this type of thing.
Dude, No one here doubts Superman is resitant to cold. The issue and the Point remains. Please prove:
Iceman "ONLY can freeze substances that contain H20 molecules"
and/or
"Iceman can't freeze SOME liquids" such as chocolate milk, etc.
