Iceman (full potential) vs. Superman

Originally posted by horrorwolf
Dude, No one here doubts Superman is resitant to cold. The issue and the Point remains. Please prove:

Iceman "ONLY can freeze substances that contain H20 molecules"

and/or

"Iceman can't freeze SOME liquids" such as chocolate milk, etc.

H20 is what he manipulates but he can reduce the thermal energy of other substances by reducing the energy the water molecules absorb.

The energy is transferred to H2O molecules for Bobby to affect. Doesn't mean he is limited to water, it just means he needs water to affect these energy reductions. That's what his power is about.

Originally posted by Mindset
Show me a canon source that says that.

Can't cause there's no such source.

Iceman's ability is manipulation of thermal energy through decrease.

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/2568/xmen2020011ef3.jpg

As stated here, his ability is direct control over heat. The icing effect over H20 is only a side effect he has mastered as there is H20 in earth's atmosphere. Bobby Drake has been able to effectively block both Sunfire and the Human Torch at close range through heat control - when insufficient H20 has been present.

Anyone who thinks he can ONLY control the temperature of water please post proof.

Originally posted by Mindset
You missed the point.

He was blown up while in human form and reformed into ice.

You got a scan of the instance so I can see exactly what you mean, in context? I am not doubting you, but you I would like to see exactly what you are talking about.

Originally posted by Allankles
H20 is what he manipulates but he can reduce the thermal energy of other substances by reducing the energy the water molecules absorb.

Someone's been watching too much Heroes or something.

Prove there has to be H20 present for his ability to decrease thermal energy to have effect.

The previous scan stated that he blocked the thrusters of the blackbird at SOURCE. The effect of icing is a side effect of his thermal negation and its effects on H20 molecules, not vice versa.

Originally posted by snyper1982
You got a scan of the instance so I can see exactly what you mean, in context? I am not doubting you, but you I would like to see exactly what you are talking about.

There really isn't much to get, he was blown up in human form and he reformed in Ice form. The point is the physical damage, which would kill any regular human, did not kill him.

Originally posted by Vanlore
Great post LDHZenkai 👆

Yes anything can happen in comics but we dont jump logic and conclude something ludicrous like his blood is chocolate milk.. We still use logic to the most extent in can be used in debating.

Logic says if there is anything in his body that would harm a human than it would harm superman the times he lost his powers on earth... Or we could go with your he has chocolate milk for blood.. Do you see what I'm saying... You want to only apply logic when it suits you and ignore it when it does not...

If Clark uses water for moisture when he does not have his powers. The next logical step would be to assume when he has his powers his body retains his h20 or makes its own.. It would be illogical to start out with the assumption that its not h20 when he already uses it to hydrate himself...

Iceman has froze heat vision before I mean c'mon there is nothing superman is going to be able to do to stop Iceman..

We don't know for certain that he even needs food or water when depowered. I have seen no concrete evidence that he does... I am willing to accept that he does need food and water, as soon as someone shows some evidence that he needs anything other than sunlight, even when depowered. If he does need food or water when he looses his powers, I think the more logical conclusion, is that his body undergoes a physical change, as he no longer needs any form of sustenance other than sunlight.

Originally posted by Mindset
Is there something you don't understand about him being a psionic being and that he can transfer to other bodies of water or water vapor?

Does his powers have a maximum range on them? Or can he just transfer his consciousness to any body of water in the universe?

Originally posted by Mindset
Show me a canon source that says that.

According to Marvel's very own website: http://www.marvel.com/universe/Iceman

Powers
Iceman is able to lower his external and internal body temperature without harm to himself, thereby radiating intense cold from his body. Iceman is able to reach -105 degrees Fahrenheit within a few seconds, and is immune to sub-zero temperatures around him.

In addition, Iceman can freeze any moisture in the air around him into unusually hard ice, and thereby form simple objects such as slides, ladders, shields, and bats. Iceman can also augment his ice form with extraneous moisture to enhance his strength and durability, and can reshape his body's ice form at will by using any available moisture from his surrounding environment. Similarly, Iceman can rebuild his ice form if any part of it is broken or if it is shattered completely without suffering any permanent damage.

Previously, Iceman was able to transform his body into solid ice and back to human form at will. For a time, however, his body was permanently transformed into solid ice as a result of a secondary mutation. After M-day, Iceman appeared to have lost his powers, returing to human form. However, this was revealed by Emma Frost as a mental block, and Iceman later regained his powers, along with the ability to change from human to ice form.

Iceman also possesses the potential to transport himself quickly over great distances through nearby flows of water by merging his body’s molecules with those of the stream.

Originally posted by snyper1982
We don't know for certain that he even needs food or water when depowered. I have seen no concrete evidence that he does... I am willing to accept that he does need food and water, as soon as someone shows some evidence that he needs anything other than sunlight, even when depowered. If he does need food or water when he looses his powers, I think the more logical conclusion, is that his body undergoes a physical change, as he no longer needs any form of sustenance other than sunlight.

Edit

Originally posted by snyper1982
According to Marvel's very own website: http://www.marvel.com/universe/Iceman

Powers
Iceman is able to lower his external and internal body temperature without harm to himself, thereby radiating intense cold from his body. Iceman is able to reach -105 degrees Fahrenheit within a few seconds, and is immune to sub-zero temperatures around him.

In addition, Iceman can freeze any moisture in the air around him into unusually hard ice, and thereby form simple objects such as slides, ladders, shields, and bats. Iceman can also augment his ice form with extraneous moisture to enhance his strength and durability, and can reshape his body's ice form at will by using any available moisture from his surrounding environment. Similarly, Iceman can rebuild his ice form if any part of it is broken or if it is shattered completely without suffering any permanent damage.

Previously, Iceman was able to transform his body into solid ice and back to human form at will. For a time, however, his body was permanently transformed into solid ice as a result of a secondary mutation. After M-day, Iceman appeared to have lost his powers, returing to human form. However, this was revealed by Emma Frost as a mental block, and Iceman later regained his powers, along with the ability to change from human to ice form.

Iceman also possesses the potential to transport himself quickly over great distances through nearby flows of water by merging his body’s molecules with those of the stream.

Originally posted by snyper1982
According to Marvel's very own website: http://www.marvel.com/universe/Iceman

Powers
Iceman is able to lower his external and internal body temperature without harm to himself, thereby radiating intense cold from his body. Iceman is able to reach -105 degrees Fahrenheit within a few seconds, and is immune to sub-zero temperatures around him.

In addition, Iceman can freeze any moisture in the air around him into unusually hard ice, and thereby form simple objects such as slides, ladders, shields, and bats. Iceman can also augment his ice form with extraneous moisture to enhance his strength and durability, and can reshape his body's ice form at will by using any available moisture from his surrounding environment. Similarly, Iceman can rebuild his ice form if any part of it is broken or if it is shattered completely without suffering any permanent damage.

Previously, Iceman was able to transform his body into solid ice and back to human form at will. For a time, however, his body was permanently transformed into solid ice as a result of a secondary mutation. After M-day, Iceman appeared to have lost his powers, returing to human form. However, this was revealed by Emma Frost as a mental block, and Iceman later regained his powers, along with the ability to change from human to ice form.

Iceman also possesses the potential to transport himself quickly over great distances through nearby flows of water by merging his body’s molecules with those of the stream.

All his thermal abilities stem from this capacity to manip H2O molecules. As the canon sources have always said.

That's not what it says.

Originally posted by horrorwolf
Someone's been watching too much Heroes or something.

Prove there has to be H20 present for his ability to decrease thermal energy to have effect.

The previous scan stated that he blocked the thrusters of the blackbird at SOURCE. The effect of icing is a side effect of his thermal negation and its effects on H20 molecules, not vice versa.

There is moisture there. The icing is Bobby using H2O molecules to remotely affect the thermal energy of certain systems. He's never done any kind of energy reduction without using H2O molecules for the absorption of thermal energy.

Originally posted by Mindset
That's not what it says.

I'm being specific. temperature is a function of thermal energy.

Originally posted by Allankles
There is moisture there. The icing is Bobby using H2O molecules to remotely affect the thermal energy of certain systems. He's never done any kind of energy reduction without using H2O molecules for the absorption of thermal energy.

Funny... Earth's real elementals were scared shitless of a pissed off Superman...

Clark effortlessly punked them...

Originally posted by Avlon
Funny... Earth's real elementals were scared shitless of a pissed off Superman...

Clark effortlessly punked them...

and clark didn't punk them....he just threatened to...which is different

he was prob shitting in his tights himself...luckily the elementals bought his bs

iceman can do nothin to superman