Iceman (full potential) vs. Superman

Originally posted by LDHZenkai
Uhm, someone already posted a panel where superman himself says he can feel his blood starting to slow....and that was just from a flash freeze by some bald headed kid. So obviously he doesn't operate perfectly. And in space he's getting bombarded by solar radiation that creates heat. the point is not the actual temperature anyway. It's the point that iceman can stop thermal energy, halting the cellular movement. And he wouldn't even need to stop supermans bloodflow for very long. A minute would be sufficient to cause brain damage. I am done replying to this thread though because the superman fans seem to ignore logic 🙁 I've only seen one post that actually made sense for superman winning: If he catches bobby in iceform or in human form and just knocks him out. If bobby starts out in gas form it's a whole different story.

I don't really see a reason an Omega Bobby would start this fight in a physical form knowingly.

Originally posted by LDHZenkai
Uhm, someone already posted a panel where superman himself says he can feel his blood starting to slow....and that was just from a flash freeze by some bald headed kid. So obviously he doesn't operate perfectly. And in space he's getting bombarded by solar radiation that creates heat. the point is not the actual temperature anyway. It's the point that iceman can stop thermal energy, halting the cellular movement. And he wouldn't even need to stop supermans bloodflow for very long. A minute would be sufficient to cause brain damage. I am done replying to this thread though because the superman fans seem to ignore logic 🙁 I've only seen one post that actually made sense for superman winning: If he catches bobby in iceform or in human form and just knocks him out. If bobby starts out in gas form it's a whole different story.

superman has been in deep space, objects are always bombarded by solar radiation, in deep space it's the only thing that keeps you slightly above absolute zero.

Originally posted by horrorwolf
I don't really see a reason an Omega Bobby would start this fight in a physical form knowingly.

Originally posted by Trackz
the fact superman has shown that he can blast himself with internal heat vision, iceman would effectively tire himself out trying to do this and would succumb to exhaustion.

Thats actually the point I was getting at. Its a battle for who has better control over temperature.

Bobby (via his control over thermal energy itself), or Superman trying to counter Bobby (by generating heat via cellular vibrations).

Originally posted by LDHZenkai
Neither do I. If it's Full Potential Iceman being in his gaseous form is his full potential. So if we ignore the OP's scenario then sure superman could win real quick. If we go by it superman can't knock out gas, heat vision it, see it smell it, or anything. He would have no way of hurting water molecules that share a conciousness on a psyonic level. The end.

Originally posted by Trackz
iceman would effectively tire himself out trying to do this and would succumb to exhaustion.

Originally posted by Trackz
superman can always spiral around, drawing the gas together then send it into space. he has done so before with an explosion.

Originally posted by horrorwolf
Thats actually the point I was getting at. Its a battle for who has better control over temperature.

Bobby (via his control over thermal energy itself), or Superman trying to counter Bobby (by generating heat via cellular vibrations).

Originally posted by Trackz
superman can always spiral around, drawing the gas together then send it into space. he has done so before with an explosion.

Originally posted by LDHZenkai
It's not a gas you can see. It's the water that's in the air. He would need to suck up all the water vapor on earth to do it. And i don't think his lungs are big enough.

When Superman and Flash were trying to see who could generate more kinetic energy, Flash not only proved better at it, but actually was able to steal some of the kinetic energy that Superman produced to do so. Its a fact that Flash has better control over Speed even though Speed and kinetic energy is one of Superman's specialties.

When it comes to Superman and Iceman, Its no doubt featwise that Regular Iceman is far superior at controlling both thermal and kinetic energy. Superman can manipulate heat via HV and cellular vibrations, but that is nothing compared to what Iceman is capable of via thermal energy manipulation.

And we are talking about a Full Potential Omega version of Iceman?

There is no doubt that Superman gets frozen and statued at absolute 0 here, It's only a battle for who can maintain it on a cellular level.

Originally posted by horrorwolf
When Superman and Flash were trying to see who could generate more kinetic energy, Flash not only proved better at it, but actually was able to steal some of the kinetic energy that Superman produced to do so. Its a fact that Flash has better control over Speed even though Speed and kinetic energy is one of Superman's specialties.

When it comes to Superman and Iceman, Its no doubt featwise that Regular Iceman is far superior at controlling both thermal and kinetic energy. Superman can manipulate heat via HV and cellular vibrations, but that is nothing compared to what Iceman is capable of via thermal energy manipulation.

And we are talking about a Full Potential Omega version of Iceman?

There is no doubt that Superman gets frozen and statued at absolute 0 here, It's only a battle for who can maintain it on a cellular level.

Originally posted by LDHZenkai
Neither do I. If it's Full Potential Iceman being in his gaseous form is his full potential. So if we ignore the OP's scenario then sure superman could win real quick. If we go by it superman can't knock out gas, heat vision it, see it smell it, or anything. He would have no way of hurting water molecules that share a conciousness on a psyonic level. The end.

Being in Iceform would not harm him either. He cant get knocked out, just cracked/broken. He has no internal organs (ie: brain) to knock against his skull to produce a knockout. Just stating.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Being in Iceform would not harm him either. He cant get knocked out, just cracked/broken. He has no internal organs (ie: brain) to knock against his skull to produce a knockout. Just stating.

Good point.

Originally posted by horrorwolf
I might add, that Flash has greater molecular control than Superman does, and he has "stolen" the speed from Superman several times...outside of Superman's ability to counter.

If Flash has better control over Supermans own cellular kinetic energy than Superman himself does, I'd bet a FP Iceman would > Superman in kinetic temperature control over Superman's own cells too. Superman has very poor feats generating kinetic heat outside of his HV, when you compare them to the levels of control that even a non-Omega Bobby has clearly shown.

The question is still how long Bobby could maintain this...as after freezing Supes to abs zero, he still has to fight Superman's kinetic ability to counter the freezing effect....so he would have to be able to maintain that state for a sufficient amount of time.

I don't think you can really compare the Flash's control over the Speed Force, to Bobby's control over temperature. To the best of my knowledge, there is no analogue to the speed force in regards to temperature.

Originally posted by LDHZenkai
Neither do I. If it's Full Potential Iceman being in his gaseous form is his full potential. So if we ignore the OP's scenario then sure superman could win real quick. If we go by it superman can't knock out gas, heat vision it, see it smell it, or anything. He would have no way of hurting water molecules that share a conciousness on a psyonic level. The end.

Human form is Bobby's typical form(as far as I know, I admit to being fairly ignorant of Bobby, especially Omega Bobby). The OP just said full potential, as in fighting to the absolute best of his abilities. If he said he get's prep time, I would agree, but it didn't say anything about prep. If I am mistaken, that is cool, but we really need a clarification from the OP about what he meant by full potential.

I guess we can agree though, if Bobby starts in Human form, it is a stomp in favor of Clark?

Regardless. This is a hard one, I want to Superman to win, but I just see no way for him to hurt Bobby unless he is in Human or possibly Ice form. On the flip side, I just don't know if Bobby can freeze Clark or not. Superman has shrugged off absolute zero blasts and such before. I just don't know. I guess it all comes down to what you want to believe... I am not inclined to lean either way really as I can't say for certain whether or not Bobby's attacks can affect Clark, and if they can, to what degree. If Bobby can affect Clark, I think it would take him quite a while to actually get him cold enough to stop Clark. Kryptonians are after all one of the most versatile, and resilient of all races in comics, and Clark, is the ruler against which all other Kryptonians are measured. What I am trying to say is it could be a hell of a fight if written properly.

Originally posted by snyper1982
but I just see no way for him to hurt Bobby unless he is in Human or possibly Ice form.

Originally posted by horrorwolf
When Superman and Flash were trying to see who could generate more kinetic energy, Flash not only proved better at it, but actually was able to steal some of the kinetic energy that Superman produced to do so. Its a fact that Flash has better control over Speed even though Speed and kinetic energy is one of Superman's specialties.

When it comes to Superman and Iceman, Its no doubt featwise that Regular Iceman is far superior at controlling both thermal and kinetic energy. Superman can manipulate heat via HV and cellular vibrations, but that is nothing compared to what Iceman is capable of via thermal energy manipulation.

And we are talking about a Full Potential Omega version of Iceman?

There is no doubt that Superman gets frozen and statued at absolute 0 here, It's only a battle for who can maintain it on a cellular level.

Again, there is really no analogue to the speed force in regards to temperature.

Originally posted by Mindset
Bobby has been blown up while in human form and been alright, how do you propose Supes hurts him while he is sentient ice?

and he's also nearly been killed as well (X-Men #189-190) 😉

Originally posted by carver9
I dont know why people are comparing flash to superman anyway. Flash admitted he was fighting at light speed in this fight and superman was a statue the entire time him and zoom were fighting.

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/8030/13qo5.jpg

Supes travelled FTL in Infinite Crisis when he flew all the way to the Kryptonian galaxy in his fight with SBP. I believe he moved from the central galaxy all the way several galaxies apart to Rao.

He used an infinite mass punch recently and willfully maintained the necessary speed to achieve this. He moved lightspeed to escape a double black hole. There was an instance in JLA where he flew back and forth between the Sun and Saturn moving over 100 times FTL.

In for tomorrow he moved from Vega to Earth in seconds after he'd had an engagement with some alien invasion force. He's always travelling across galaxies, if many of his writers didn't believe he was FTL he wouldn't be achieving said feats, he'd need a telerporter or a ship.

Also Supes has mentioned that he controls his speed while in atmosphere to avoid damaging the planet and living things.