Originally posted by VanloreOnly facts are guaranteed. Without facts then no one has to accept the argument (no matter how logical it may sound) since there is no guarantee in the truth.
You never disproved anything..Saying it could be this or that and its a comic does not disprove anything. All you said was poor speculation with no legs to stand on..
This is comics but we still use logic to debate. Your entire reason for saying he is using xyzlipic (chocolate milk) for hydration is no reason to assume it at all. You think this is the most logical next step? 🙄
I never used speculation, you did. Me saying that he can be made of anything suggests that he can be made of h2o molecules or not of h2o molecules. We just don't know. So how is that speculation? I didn't take a stance at all.
What? I've never said that. I said that even though Clark may drink water without his powers he doesn't necessarily have to be made out of water. His body can simply break the h2o molecules down to non h2o molecules for storage in his being. And even with his powers the rules of his body can change. And why do you use the word hydration? This makes your logic unsound and you don't even see it. Any liquid can be used as hydration for an alien. So hydration isn't the word, but maybe fluid maintenance.
You just said Clark does not need to drink water without his powers to stay hydrated. That is just plain wrong.. If your going to just throw it out there with no logical reason and say no he does not use h20 for hydration than you need to tell me what substance you are going to replace this with... wowzers its a comic is not a logical reason to say he does not use h20 for hydration. It is only a way to say yeah comics are not always logical but what you don't get is the debates are supposed to be reasoned with logic.
Again, saying that it possibly can isn't the same as saying that it is. After all, you could be right and his being may contain h2o molecules. We just don't know. Only the writer, not us, has the power to say what he is made of.
And you are the one who needs to stop with the chocolate milk routine because thats exactly what your doing.. You keep saying his blood could be made of iron nitrate (chocolate milk) or whatever. Just pull anything out of thin air and its made of (insert here).
My reason is that he is an alien and since we don't know about aliens (never even seen them) then their makeup is fair game. It is totally unreasonable and unscientific for anyone to say that all aliens with a liquid blood has to be made of h2o molecules. This is applying Earthly rules of life to all life in the universe. Even from the movie Aliens the aliens consumed h2o molecules but their blood was some form of concentrated acid.
See your missing the point. You keep saying it could be and yes I agree his blood could be made out of anything because comics don't always follow logic. But what your missing is WHAT reason would you have us believe that he uses something besides h2o to hydrate himself? Since a debate must come to a conclusion there are aspects of any comic book debate that requires speculation.
I already covered this above. I don't know what he is made of and I'm not going to say what he is made of because I don't have that power, only the writer does. Thus I'm not the one speculating.
Me and you are BOTH speculating The difference is this.... My speculation that Clark uses h20 for hydration is based from the fact that most life we know of and in the comics as well uses h2o to hydrate and also from the fact that when Clark has no powers he needs to drink water or he will die.. Thus when he has powers he must produce it himself or recycle it.
Your speculation has yet to provide a logical reason to assume he uses (insert instant kill Cleark with no powers) instead of h20. Give a logical reason that would override my obvious reason to assume that he uses h20.
You used fallacious reasoning and don't even know it. You think that supporting an argument with any reason is giving your argument legs to stand on. This is not true. The reason has to be sound and yours isn't. Do you know that we humans and animals indeed break the chemical bonds of the food we eat only to form new chemicals? You are also applying your logic to only Earthly life and not to universal life. This is not sound.
And I don't mean your usual (its a comic book) because this is something we can use to justify anything. I gave you logical explanation for him using h20 so my speculation has legs to stand on.
Not only this is a comic book which doesn't have to completely conform to reality but this is about aliens which doesn't have to conform to the rules of Earthly life. So even if I concede the comic book argument then both my alien and writer has power arguments still stand.
Your speculation that he does not use h20 is only standing on this one statement (Its a comic book) Do you see the difference here?
Originally posted by horrorwolfThe comic panel states this. Now if you have proof that he doesn't then this would mean the comic is contradicting itself. And this wouldn't be the first time comics did this.
100% False.1. Iceman's ability to manipulate thermal temperatures do not depend on H20. Please try to prove this BS statement.
Originally posted by horrorwolf
Can't cause there's no such source.Iceman's ability is manipulation of thermal energy through decrease.
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/2568/xmen2020011ef3.jpg
As stated here, his ability is direct control over heat. The icing effect over H20 is only a side effect he has mastered as there is H20 in earth's atmosphere. Bobby Drake has been able to effectively block both Sunfire and the Human Torch at close range through heat control - when insufficient H20 has been present.
Anyone who thinks he can ONLY control the temperature of water please post proof.
One can do everything that scan says if they can control only h2o molecules. Thus he is doing it indirectly.
It seems that most of these debates is basically Marvel vs. D.C.
IMO, there is more bias on the Marvel side than the D.C. side. I have conceded countless times to the Marvel side and have even supported the Marvel side over the D.C. side at times. This proves I'm not as bias as most here. Even the all time great debaters on KMC have shown their bias many times. I won't give names though.
Its just funny how these debates are mostly Marvel vs. D.C. debates.
Originally posted by h1a8
One can do everything that scan says if they can control only h2o molecules. Thus he is doing it indirectly.
Wrong again. You keep trying to debate on panel evidence with pure conjecture. Now I know why debating simple concepts are so difficult here.
If H20 was required...he would have needed to form H20 molecules(ice/water) around the fire and close in on it. Which he didn't do.
It clearly stated that he blocked the thrusters of the blackbird at SOURCE: Meaning via thermal control, no ice or water was formed - he simply killed the fire itself via thermal control directly. He's done this to both Sunfire and the Human Torch as well.
Again, please offer some sort of proof that Iceman can't manipulate temperatures without the presence of water molecules.
Originally posted by h1a8
The comic panel states this. Now if you have proof that he doesn't then this would mean the comic is contradicting itself. And this wouldn't be the first time comics did this.
Thermokinesis: Iceman is a mutant with the superhuman ability to lower his external and internal body temperature, projecting intense coldness from his body. Like any normal human being's, the nerve centers for regulating the Iceman's body temperature are found in the part of the brain called the hypothalamus. However, the Iceman can mentally override his hypothalamus to allow his body temperature to be lowered by an unknown internal mechanism. This ability converts the latent thermal energies in and around his body into an unknown form of energy that is efficiently dissipated. A related mutation has rendered his body tissues unaffected by sub-zero temperatures. The Iceman can consciously, immediately lower his body temperature from its normal 98.6 Fahrenheit to that of -105.7 F within the span of a few tenths of a second.
As his body temperature falls, the surrounding moisture in the air that is in contact with him is similarly lowered.
Ice is a side effect of Drake's thermal control, not a catalyst.
Originally posted by h1a8
Only facts are guaranteed. Without facts then no one has to accept the argument (no matter how logical it may sound) since there is no guarantee in the truth.
The facts I am basing my "theory" that supermans body makes or recycles H2O rather than a different substance for "moisture" is from his commonly understood weakness the times he has lost his powers. The fact that he is similar to us. The fact that his home planet was formerly a lush garden world. The fact that you have no theory to replace mine. If you have a better theory than by all means tell us about it. If you do not have a different theory than the next logical step would be to accept the current one.
Originally posted by h1a8 I never used speculation, you did. Me saying that he can be made of anything suggests that he can be made of h2o molecules or not of h2o molecules. We just don't know. So how is that speculation? I didn't take a stance at all.[/B]
It is speculation because you don't know if he could be made of "anything". And it is an incorrect statement at that.
An example in this very post: (h1a8: Any liquid can be used as hydration for an alien.) Is this not speculation based on 0 facts? Your saying "any" alien can use for example liquid nitrogen for moisture or blood. How do you know that liquid nitrogen would not harm or kill some aliens? How about a liquid form of Kryptonite?
Originally posted by h1a8 What? I've never said that. I said that even though Clark may drink water without his powers he doesn't necessarily have to be made out of water. His body can simply break the h2o molecules down to non h2o molecules for storage in his being. And even with his powers the rules of his body can change. And why do you use the word hydration? This makes your logic unsound and you don't even see it. Any liquid can be used as hydration for an alien. So hydration isn't the word, but maybe fluid maintenance. [/B]
I think its safe to say that if clark did not have his powers he would need to drink water or he would die. What about the Kryptonians on there planet?
Ok so he is still utilizing H20. I never was arguing the method of how he would do this. Sorry I am not being clear with the "hydration". What I mean is if he has none in any form than he would be a pile of dirt. And with the facts I listed above it is logical to assume his body makes his own H2O or recycles it by some unknown process. Why take the stance that it is not H20? Maybe it has something to do with the fact that it is motivation to win a debate in a thread hmm?? If not make a list of facts like I did to "make" a actual theory.
Originally posted by h1a8 Again, saying that it possibly can isn't the same as saying that it is. After all, you could be right and his being may contain h2o molecules. We just don't know. Only the writer, not us, has the power to say what he is made of.[/B]
True but we also are able to use logic based on facts we do know to form a theory. And Theory>>>>>we dont know.
So I have a theory and you are making a observation of it and saying that we do not know this for a fact and that is fine. I never said it was a fact. I said it is the next logical conclusion.
Originally posted by h1a8 My reason is that he is an alien and since we don't know about aliens (never even seen them) then their makeup is fair game. It is totally unreasonable and unscientific for anyone to say that all aliens with a liquid blood has to be made of h2o molecules. This is applying Earthly rules of life to all life in the universe. Even from the movie Aliens the aliens consumed h2o molecules but their blood was some form of concentrated acid.[/B]
Ok you are getting confused in the process of making a logical assumptions.
Ok first of all, I never stated that all aliens liquid blood must be made of H2O molecules. I stated given what we do know of him and what we do know of the universe it is the next logical conclusion that he uses H20 for the purpose of not being a pile of dirt.
Ok the Aliens in the movie your talking about are still utilizing H20 as you stated. The process is irrelevant to this debate so I'm at this point not sure you understand what has been said up to this point.
Originally posted by h1a8 I already covered this above. I don't know what he is made of and I'm not going to say what he is made of because I don't have that power, only the writer does. Thus I'm not the one speculating.[/B]
So you lack the ability to form a hypothesis or theory using logic.... Well there is allot of things you will not be able to participate in or do. My heart goes out to you.
Originally posted by h1a8 You used fallacious reasoning and don't even know it. You think that supporting an argument with any reason is giving your argument legs to stand on. This is not true. The reason has to be sound and yours isn't. Do you know that we humans and animals indeed break the chemical bonds of the food we eat only to form new chemicals? You are also applying your logic to only Earthly life and not to universal life. This is not sound.[/B]
Explain what part is fallacious reasoning please. This is coming from you who flat out refuses to speculate and form a theory to replace mine because you say only the writer knows everything.. You know what, if you don't like my theory than why don't you come up with a better one ? You don't bring anything to the table....
Originally posted by h1a8 Not only this is a comic book which doesn't have to completely conform to reality but this is about aliens which doesn't have to conform to the rules of Earthly life. So even if I concede the comic book argument then both my alien and writer has power arguments still stand. [/B]
My theory is based from facts in the comics as well... Until you can replace my theory with a better one why should you be able to say that superman is not applicable to what would be most likely? ?
I challenge you to make your own theory then. Pick a substance and say it fills the spot where h20 comes in... Then use facts and post your theory on here so we can see it.
Originally posted by VanloreI challenge you to make your own theory then. Pick a substance and say it fills the spot where h20 comes in... Then use facts and post your theory on here so we can see it.
Truth be told. I can't accept Iceman beating Superman. I can't even accept him even harming Supes in the least. From the many years I've seen Superman, he's pretty much been immune to cold. Even 2k is like sunshine to him. I seriously doubt Iceman can even make objects reach that temp. Even in chrono stasis, under his will Superman's molecules resisted absolute stoppage (not slow down). Meaning, Superman's molecules resisted a force trying to stop their motion. Resisting absolute zero is one of the greatest feats I've ever seen. Absolute zero is a form of infinity which is not supposed to be theoretically reached. This is like one crossing from one end of the universe to the other end when there really is no end. Resisting an infinite force requires infinite force. And with that infinite force one can overpower any finite force with ease.
Originally posted by carver9
Isnt this from the same writer who has bullets>>>supermans speed. I cant believed you used that.You cant accept one part of the book and discredit the other.
I'm not sure what he is talking about since It's been so long since I read that comic but if his statement is true than his point is valid. You can't just pick and choose what you like and discredit another part.
Originally posted by manx422
u r TROLLING
Please explain to me how caver9 is trolling by pointing out a valid point? I mean if we are going to do this than there is some pretty good Iceman comics I would like to use in this manner. Just asking... 😎
