Originally posted by LDHZenkaiIt does say thru h20 molecules. Just not in the scan you are referring to. Also I can affect Thermal energy thru h2o molecules in the air.
where is it stated that superman doesn't have water in his body? and the writer said iceman affects thermal energy. He never said it was through water molecules. That wouldn't make sense either way.
Originally posted by LDHZenkai
Hasn't superman been dehydrated by atomic bombs before or something like that? How did they dehydrate him if he doesn't have water in him? And he stated on panel that he could feel his blood freezing.....so either way whatever is in his body can be frozen according to superman himself.
I've never seen that. Although that is contradicted by the fact that Superman doesn't need water to live. Lastly, consuming water isn't the same as being made of water. Break the chemical bonds to form new chemicals remember.
Originally posted by h1a8
I've never seen that. Although that is contradicted by the fact that Superman doesn't need water to live. Lastly, consuming water isn't the same as being made of water. Break the chemical bonds to form new chemicals remember.
And sorry but this is incorrect. He does not need to drink H20 as in "consume" water to survive as long as he is not cut off from his power source...
There is a difference in not needing to consume something and not needing it to live..
For example there are animals that make there own vitamin C. They do not need to consume it but they do need it to live..
Lastly it would not be the next logical step to start out with the assumption that he uses a different liquid other than H2O for the purpose of not being a pile of dirt. As I have already listed facts for the reason that you failed to counter with a different theory other than we don't know.
Again theory>>>>>we don't know
You have also been shown on panel evidence that Iceman can control anything with a heat exchange involved..
Also stop stereotyping people and putting them into groups. Just because people state that Iceman would win via logic and you continue to ignore points like I have made does not mean they are pro Marvel or anything of the sort. It would be illogical to make that statement as it serves no purpose. I could say you are pro DC but I would not make such a statement because no one can know that for sure and I am not going to insult people on pure conjecture.
Well unless I didn't like you lol. But I have no reason to not like you. You are here just like me and everyone els defending your point of view and I respect that.
If anyone still did not understand this then maybe you will understand this point.
At absolute zero there is no movement no kinetic energy. At absolute zero nothing can pass threw an area with no kinetic energy. Not even a photon can pass threw it. If it was absolute zero "JUST" in the area superman was in he would be cut off from the sun.. He would be cut off from everything. And since he is cut off from the sun it would kill him at that temperature.. We are not even talking about Iceman freezing superman himself just the area around him. Full potential Iceman could do both instantly.
Originally posted by Makky
I don't really know, it sounds as if bobby cannot be defeated physically so I would assume the only option clark has is though T-VO. Sure clark could melt him but if bobby is a psionic being then anything short of T-VO wouldn't have a effect.
as for this maybe im not completely leaning towards one or the other in this fight honestly..Now as for this...
Originally posted by Makky So he can somehow directly influence kinetic energy and thermal energy, srry u guys gotta stop inventing ideas when its suited to ur characters. As it stands there isn't anything bobby can do to clark, and since there hasn't been any evidence to the contrary it will remain that way.
honestly i somewhat agree but cold = absence of heat which in turn =the kinetic energy being stripped from w/e your trying to kool making freezing merely absorbing heat so since ice man has been said to freeze things or flash freeze things that's all hes actually doing...and yes was said to create ice by use of water molecules that's simply because you can give or take heat from water at a fast rate...since the molecules in water are heat less they want to return to their normal state(water)so the ice itself begins to absorb the heat from your body. hence holding an ice cube in your hand makes your hand cold and the ice gets watery, but on such a larger scale like this their would be colder ice making it harder for the molecules to absorb the heat they need...so superman's body is like a solar reactor well depending on how much energy superman's body has Vs the amount of energy bobby could take....so what are the facts to be stated about how much energy superman stores normally and whats the amount of energy bobby can is known to take?.....soo after all that what is the warmest Clark remains at on a normal basis Vs How cold Iceman is on a regular basis?
Originally posted by VanloreWell we know that Superman doesn't need to consume h2o nor does he necessarily needs it to live.
And sorry but this is incorrect. He does not need to drink H20 as in "consume" water to survive as long as he is not cut off from his power source...There is a difference in not needing to consume something and not needing it to live..
I disagree. Non proven or verified theory doesn't have to be accepted as truth. It is all a matter of opinion and not fact.
Lastly it would not be the next logical step to start out with the assumption that he uses a different liquid other than H2O for the purpose of not being a pile of dirt. As I have already listed facts for the reason that you failed to counter with a different theory other than we don't know.Again theory>>>>>we don't know
Lies. The scan showed no evidence of this. One scan verified that Iceman indirectly controls heat gradients by cooling the surrounding air.
You have also been shown on panel evidence that Iceman can control anything with a heat exchange involved..
There is no logic in theory or speculation. True logic is based off deduction and fact.
Also stop stereotyping people and putting them into groups. Just because people state that Iceman would win via logic and you continue to ignore points like I have made does not mean they are pro Marvel or anything of the sort. It would be illogical to make that statement as it serves no purpose. I could say you are pro DC but I would not make such a statement because no one can know that for sure and I am not going to insult people on pure conjecture.
I speak the truth. Mostly posters on here are guilty of being either Marvel bias or D.C. bias. Just read through most of these threads and you can easily find who is Marvel bias and who is D.C. bias. If not then you are not very smart. You would also see that Marvel bias dominates D.C. bias.
Originally posted by Vanlore
If anyone still did not understand this then maybe you will understand this point.At absolute zero there is no movement no kinetic energy. At absolute zero nothing can pass threw an area with no kinetic energy. Not even a photon can pass threw it. If it was absolute zero "JUST" in the area superman was in he would be cut off from the sun.. He would be cut off from everything. And since he is cut off from the sun it would kill him at that temperature.. We are not even talking about Iceman freezing superman himself just the area around him. Full potential Iceman could do both instantly.
First of all Iceman can't do anything instantly. Second, Superman can be cut off from the Sun and still have his powers. It is over a long period of time without solar energy that his power wanes and not right away. Third, Full potential Iceman can't reach absolute zero nor is he proven to reach 2 kelvin without assistance.
Also know that Superman out of character can instantly disintegrate Bobby.
Originally posted by h1a8
First of all Iceman can't do anything instantly.
Thats false. He flash froze Vanisher and stopped him from teleporting. When he and other X-Men went to another time to fight Legion, Iceman flash froze him from the inside out. Those are just a couple of examples.
Originally posted by h1a8
Third, Full potential Iceman can't reach absolute zero nor is he proven to reach 2 kelvin without assistance.
You cant say that because we've never seen full potential Iceman attempt it and fail. Absolute zero is -273C and current Iceman got to -200 before Cable told him to stop. This was also with no assistance. It would be easier and faster for a full potential Iceman to achieve said temperatures.
Originally posted by h1a8
Also know that Superman out of character can instantly disintegrate Bobby.
Bobby has been disintegrated before and he just reformed.
Originally posted by h1a8
Well we know that Superman doesn't need to consume h2o nor does he necessarily needs it to live.
I have pointed out the distinction between needing something to live and needing to consume something in order to live. Your statement is pure ignorance because you blatantly ignore the logic of my statement with the word "necessarily".
Necessarily is a form of speculation. If we use that speculation based on the facts that we do know and deduct what we don't know, than in theory he does need H20 for not being a pile a dirt as I have already listed the Facts this theory is based on and yet you still fail to use facts for your dogma that he "necessarily" does not need it. Yes both are possible. One is based on facts "my theory" one is not a theory but a mere possible alternative (your statement.)
The facts I am basing my "theory" that supermans body makes or recycles H2O rather than a different substance for "moisture" is from his commonly understood weakness the times he has lost his powers. The fact that he is similar to us. The fact that his home planet was formerly a lush garden world. The fact that you have no theory to replace mine. If you have a better theory than by all means tell us about it. If you do not have a different theory than the next logical step would be to accept the current one. I could list many more facts for basis if you want??
Originally posted by h1a8
I disagree. Non proven or verified theory doesn't have to be accepted as truth. It is all a matter of opinion and not fact.
Umm... If it was proven or verified than it would not be a "THEORY" anymore it would be a fact... HELLO!!! Do you even know what a theory is? A theory is a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena.
So you do not accept our Gravitational Theory? lol... Wait you will probability confuse this so ill explain it for you.
Well, "Gravitational Theory" is our explanation of the phenomenon we know as 'gravity'.
It is a law of gravity that if you drop an object here, it will fall to the ground, but it is Gravitational Theory that explains how and why this occurs.
Gravity is a law, but we understand and explain it through a theory. It is both ; )
Ah just about all vs comics is based on some basis of speculation. So your saying no matter what logic tells us that you are not going to follow the logic of it because it is not a fact as in proven or maybe even the absolute truth. Well you should not be debating in any comic vs threads then.. The fact that you state this rule of your reasoning and then will defend superman in "every vs thread" would lead me to believe that you are as biased as you claim other people are that you don't even know.
Which I might add is purely "speculation" based from what you have read which would be a logical theory. And then say I am not smart because I wont insult people on the basis of theory derived by the facts of peoples statements.
But you yourself do not accept that reasoning as you state but then use it to argue that people are biased. Talk about a double standard. So only people that agree with you are able to form theory's such as who is biased and who is not or does superman make is own H20 or ignore that logic and accept the alternative suggested based on 0 facts. but anyone who disagrees with you via your own logic is not accepted because it is not fact or absolute truth. And yet you use less than theory to argue and instead just merely make suggestions and use them over logic. If you was doing this in a court of law to argue the intent of someone or motive they would laugh at you..
Originally posted by h1a8
Lies. The scan showed no evidence of this. One scan verified that Iceman indirectly controls heat gradients by cooling the surrounding air.
It clearly states he is bypassing everything els and freezing it via the direct source.. Now what is the direct source???......
Originally posted by h1a8
There is no logic in theory or speculation. True logic is based off deduction and fact.
HAHAHA!!!! There is NO logic in theory????? You are truly lost at this point and would need a full education at this point to bring you up to par. Did you know that fact and deduction are also means to form a theory?
Originally posted by h1a8 I speak the truth. Mostly posters on here are guilty of being either Marvel bias or D.C. bias. Just read through most of these threads and you can easily find who is Marvel bias and who is D.C. bias. If not then you are not very smart. You would also see that Marvel bias dominates D.C. bias. [/B]
By your quote above this one you just said that your last quote here is illogical..lol I'll let you think about that..
Also Iceman wins..
Originally posted by LDHZenkai
Hasn't superman been dehydrated by atomic bombs before or something like that? How did they dehydrate him if he doesn't have water in him? And he stated on panel that he could feel his blood freezing.....so either way whatever is in his body can be frozen according to superman himself.
Also this is a valid point. Arguing what fluid superman uses for moisture is Irrelevant in the first place. Since his blood has been shown to be effected via cold as an indirect source. While scans show Iceman is able to accomplish such feats by different means via direct source.
HUH, I cant believe you all are still arguing about fluids being in supermans blood when he has shown on panel THOUSANDS of times that he can bleed.
This is a stalemate because I cant see it happening on a level that would count superman out of the fight and I cant find any possible way of superman defeating iceman.
Originally posted by h1a8
First of all Iceman can't do anything instantly. Second, Superman can be cut off from the Sun and still have his powers. It is over a long period of time without solar energy that his power wanes and not right away. Third, Full potential Iceman can't reach absolute zero nor is he proven to reach 2 kelvin without assistance.Also know that Superman out of character can instantly disintegrate Bobby.
We should also note supes has already used his HV offensivly in extremly effective ways, thus melting Bobby wouldn't be a problem.
Originally posted by Makky
We should also note supes has already used his HV offensivly in extremly effective ways, thus melting Bobby wouldn't be a problem.
Read more on bobby before debating against him, that wont work on him. Theres nothing in superman power that is stopping bobby.
I dont know why people debate against you when you dont know what in the hell you're talking about.
Originally posted by carver9
HUH, I cant believe you all are still arguing about fluids being in supermans blood when he has shown on panel THOUSANDS of times that he can bleed.This is a stalemate because I cant see it happening on a level that would count superman out of the fight and I cant find any possible way of superman defeating iceman.
They are not arguing it is fluid rather the content of it.