Originally posted by darthgoober
PIS can happen any number of times under any number of writers because it's PLOT INDUCED STUPIDITY. It happens in almost every issue of Flash, when Flash doesn't beat the villain in the first panel. If PIS is on, then Supes doesn't have a chance because he was a victim of it more than just about anyone else. If we're using PIS then Superman WON'T be using his speed or strength at maximum efficiency and Surfers. Why? For the sake of the plot, and to make the fight look good. SvFL is what your talking about, and while Superman did develope powers on the fly all the time, unless he used each individual power multiple times, it qualifies. It has nothing to do with my liking it or not that's forum rules. So as I said earlier- Surfer 6/10.
Actually forum rules states both characters fighting at their best, and SUpes at his best is what you call PIS supes, like it or not it wasnt PIS, and calling Flash PIS? Now you just sound like your biased against DC, face it PC Supes outclasses SS in every category.
PC Supes 10/10 FTW
Unless of course you want to start using scans and on panel feats, because Supes would completely stomp surfer in every category, speed, strength, power, etc.
If so start posting and we'll go by scans, then again you might just complain and call it all PIS.
Originally posted by bigbran
You said post ret con beyonder was the cannon one.
Well Post-Retcon Beyonder is the cannon version of him, all of his pre-retconned feats and showings were retconned and said to have all been illusions created by himself.
It doesn't mean I don't like Pre-retcon beyonder though.
Originally posted by Jesse7
Actually forum rules states both characters fighting at their best, and SUpes at his best is what you call PIS supes, like it or not it wasnt PIS, and calling Flash PIS? Now you just sound like your biased against DC, face it PC Supes outclasses SS in every category.PC Supes 10/10 FTW
Unless of course you want to start using scans and on panel feats, because Supes would completely stomp surfer in every category, speed, strength, power, etc.
If so start posting and we'll go by scans, then again you might just complain and call it all PIS.
OK, I think you misunderstood about what I said about Flash. I'm not calling of Flash's abilities PIS. The PIS I was referring to was that even though the Flash could justifiably take out most of his villain in the first panel via 1000 light speed punches, he doesn't. The reason that he doesn't is because they wouldn't sell many comics if he did that. To my knowledge, everyone on the forum agrees with that. It wasn't a knock against the Flash, it's the truth. Everyone is confusing PIS with SvFL. PIS is when the character is shown BELOW their abilities to make the fight closer than it should be. SvFL is when the character does something that is either BEYOND their standard capabilities or is only seen once or is only used once or twice. Having the books hero be the victim of PIS is actually a compliment, because the hero could and SHOULD have done better, their abilities just weren't used to the fullest by the writers. I have no problem with the feats of strength and speed that PC Supes did consistently, no matter how outrageous they are. It's things like his sneezing and destroying a galaxy(which to my knowledge only happened once), or the powers he developed on the fly and never used again, which should be thrown out by the forum rules. And I only used Flash as an example because he is probably the second biggest VICTIM of PIS behind Superman, I have nothing against DC.
Originally posted by darthgoober
OK, I think you misunderstood about what I said about Flash. I'm not calling of Flash's abilities PIS. The PIS I was referring to was that even though the Flash could justifiably take out most of his villain in the first panel via 1000 light speed punches, he doesn't. The reason that he doesn't is because they wouldn't sell many comics if he did that. To my knowledge, everyone on the forum agrees with that. It wasn't a knock against the Flash, it's the truth. Everyone is confusing PIS with SvFL. PIS is when the character is shown BELOW their abilities to make the fight closer than it should be. SvFL is when the character does something that is either BEYOND their standard capabilities or is only seen once or is only used once or twice. Having the books hero be the victim of PIS is actually a compliment, because the hero could and SHOULD have done better, their abilities just weren't used to the fullest by the writers. I have no problem with the feats of strength and speed that PC Supes did consistently, no matter how outrageous they are. It's things like his sneezing and destroying a galaxy(which to my knowledge only happened once), or the powers he developed on the fly and never used again, which should be thrown out by the forum rules. And I only used Flash as an example because he is probably the second biggest VICTIM of PIS behind Superman, I have nothing against DC.
Basically what you just said has killed your own argument against Superman, you said that Flash can hit a person 1000 times in the first panel and beat any of his enemies, but they wouldnt do that because it wouldnt sell any comics right?
Regardless of that Flash can still do that and has before, so its within his power set, on these forums characters use their abilities to their fullest (thats why its a debate).
If you want to count all of that as PIS and take it out, then Surfer cant speed blitz anyone because if he could speed blitz some one in the first panel it wouldnt sell books! If surfer could immediately just radiate the radiation or energy his enemies are weak to then it wouldnt sell books, thus surfer cant do it! (sarcasm)
See what Im saying here? Sure you can complain about anyone you want I don't care, but what you need to understand is that just because you dont like some thing or because you call it PIS doesnt mean its not going to be used in a debate.
Supes 10/10
Originally posted by Jesse7Actually when someone has a weakness, surfer exploits it. he has threatened Gladiator that, he could take him out in a flash because he knows how resistent, and what glads is weak to.
Basically what you just said has killed your own argument against Superman, you said that Flash can hit a person 1000 times in the first panel and beat any of his enemies, but they wouldnt do that because it wouldnt sell any comics right?Regardless of that Flash can still do that and has before, so its within his power set, on these forums characters use their abilities to their fullest (thats why its a debate).
If you want to count all of that as PIS and take it out, then Surfer cant speed blitz anyone because if he could speed blitz some one in the first panel it wouldnt sell books! If surfer could immediately just radiate the radiation or energy his enemies are weak to then it wouldnt sell books, thus surfer cant do it! (sarcasm)
See what Im saying here? Sure you can complain about anyone you want I don't care, but what you need to understand is that just because you dont like some thing or because you call it PIS doesnt mean its not going to be used in a debate.
Supes 10/10
Originally posted by bigbran
Actually when someone has a weakness, surfer exploits it. he has threatened Gladiator that, he could take him out in a flash because he knows how resistent, and what glads is weak to.
And Supes has punched people through time and sealed them off in another Universe/Dimension by rubbing his hands together or by vibrating his molecules. <--BFR is a counted as a win on these forums
Supes has altered the future with his punches, supes has traveled trillions of times the speed of light in under a fraction of a second (this exact number was stated in narration).
^SS has never traveled anywhere near that fast, the fastest SS has traveled was 300x the speed of light.
Originally posted by Jesse7No surfer has traveled way faster than that. Half a million light years, in less than a minute. or something along those lines.
And Supes has punched people through time and sealed them off in another Universe/Dimension by rubbing his hands together or by vibrating his molecules. <--BFR is a counted as a win on these forumsSupes has altered the future with his punches, supes has traveled trillions of times the speed of light in under a fraction of a second (this exact number was stated in narration).
^SS has never traveled anywhere near that fast, the fastest SS has traveled was 300x the speed of light.
Originally posted by Jesse7Ive tried to show you the scan before, and you said you couldn't read it.
Yeah uh huh, show me the scan that says it was exactly half a million light years in LESS then a minute, because the example of Supes traveling at 300 trillion times the speed of light is the exact narration.
Originally posted by Jesse7No he did it fast, he needed to get there, and he knew something had started, so unless it ended really long, he would have got there in hours.
I see that it says half a million light years, but no where does it say how long it took, for all we know it could have taken minutes or an hour.
Originally posted by Jesse7
Basically what you just said has killed your own argument against Superman, you said that Flash can hit a person 1000 times in the first panel and beat any of his enemies, but they wouldnt do that because it wouldnt sell any comics right?Regardless of that Flash can still do that and has before, so its within his power set, on these forums characters use their abilities to their fullest (thats why its a debate).
If you want to count all of that as PIS and take it out, then Surfer cant speed blitz anyone because if he could speed blitz some one in the first panel it wouldnt sell books! If surfer could immediately just radiate the radiation or energy his enemies are weak to then it wouldnt sell books, thus surfer cant do it! (sarcasm)
See what Im saying here? Sure you can complain about anyone you want I don't care, but what you need to understand is that just because you dont like some thing or because you call it PIS doesnt mean its not going to be used in a debate.
Supes 10/10
You say that Superman can blitz Surfer, fine. Show me some instances of Surfer being on the recieving end of a blitz by somene and I'll consider it a viable possibility. But until I see it happen, I'm not convinced that he could.
Originally posted by Jesse7
lol then their is no convincing you, Supes has traveled 300 trillion times the speed of light (that actual number stated in the narration) and you dont think he could speed blitz SS?Its no use to argue with you then, you call everything PC supes does PIS (which it is not) so theirs no point.
Now since your the one saying that Superman can blitz Surfer it's up to you to prove that. I'm not questioning Superman's speed, I'm questioning if it would be enough to blitz the Surfer. Since you say it is, it's up to you to prove that.
Ok Jesse, I just realized where the confusion regarding PIS came into play. In your intial post, you said that I might consider Supes high ended feats as PIS, and I stated using the term too for some dumbass reason or another. However, these are not PIS. PIS is an instance when a character doesn't preform as well as he should, not when a character does something that is more than he is capable. However PIS is not allowed in forum battles because it makes the character look less powerful than they really are. I'm sorry that I got upset about your not understanding that since I contributed to the initial confusion.
Now, that being said, I believe many of PC Supes that he gets on the fly powers ARE covered under SvFL, because powers that are almost never seen(meaning, more than once or twice) fall under that heading. So if he developed a power for one issue and then never used it again, it doesn't count. By the same token, he can't develope an anti-surfer eye blast just for the purposes of this fight. That's not my rule, that's the forum rule, and it's every bit as valid as the rule that states that the characters will fight to the best of their ability. Superman is bound by the rules to use only his standard abilities.