Pre-Crisis Superman Vs Silver Surfer

Started by Juntai10 pages
Juntai Divine Vengeance

Originally posted by darthgoober
Ok Jesse, I just realized where the confusion regarding PIS came into play. In your intial post, you said that I might consider Supes high ended feats as PIS, and I stated using the term too for some dumbass reason or another. However, these are not PIS. PIS is an instance when a character doesn't preform as well as he should, not when a character does something that is more than he is capable. However PIS is not allowed in forum battles because it makes the character look less powerful than they really are. I'm sorry that I got upset about your not understanding that since I contributed to the initial confusion.
Now, that being said, I believe many of PC Supes that he gets on the fly powers ARE covered under SvFL, because powers that are almost never seen(meaning, more than once or twice) fall under that heading. So if he developed a power for one issue and then never used it again, it doesn't count. By the same token, he can't develope an anti-surfer eye blast just for the purposes of this fight. That's not my rule, that's the forum rule, and it's every bit as valid as the rule that states that the characters will fight to the best of their ability. Superman is bound by the rules to use only his standard abilities.
300 million times lightspeed is a lot faster than Surfer. Needless to say, he can vibrate himself out of time with reality, join another reality, or move through time at will, all with far greater control and frequency than Surfer.

SvFL doesn't really cover PC Supes, it's more of Batman be unable to through a 6 feet of solid titanium, but then kicking Captain Marvel unconscious and knocking the magic out of him[a far tougher feat]. Or as the name suggests... Spiderman kicking around Firelord.

Most of Supes' 'invented powers' are just variations of his powers, or multiple of powers he had shown used in conjunction with another. Surfer would be at far more of a disadvantage than PC supes if we took away one time powers. He would just fly and shoot blasts mostly, lol.

newjak86 I am Beyond Power

Well lets look at SS I'm not sure on the entire feat but in a picosecond he has calculated the entire size weight abilities of an army or armarda something like that easily and He travels really fast really fast.

The point is like I said from the begining say what you will about PC Supes he was only a beast when he needed to be to win a match. The fact is every power he could produce and has SS can reproduce it and do more things.

If Supes tries to lure him to a sun SS could change the sun into a red sun. If Supes tried to T-VO SS, Silver Surfe removes Supes mind from body. If Superman wants to Vibrate Silver Surfer breaks the bonds holding his atoms together thus sprinkling Supes body across the universe. If Supes tries to Speedblitz him SS makes a K-Nite or red sun aura(He would know about them because of cosmic awarness) around himself. Supes puts him in another reality or time SS uses his powers to get back and then SS could do the same to Supes but instead teleports him into a Red Sun

There is no evidence that Superman will be leaps and bounds above him in this fight only the idea that PC Supes being PC Supes is alot faster with no real backing behind it.

Like I said I know what kind of beast PC Supes was but when it is hard to argue a quick victory other than the hope he can put him down in one punch faster than the guy with no real backing and the other guy has access to everyway inmaginable on how to beat you it is hard to argue the majority for them.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by newjak86
Well lets look at SS I'm not sure on the entire feat but in a picosecond he has calculated the entire size weight abilities of an army or armarda something like that easily and He travels really fast really fast.

The point is like I said from the begining say what you will about PC Supes he was only a beast when he needed to be to win a match. The fact is every power he could produce and has SS can reproduce it and do more things.

If Supes tries to lure him to a sun SS could change the sun into a red sun. If Supes tried to T-VO SS, Silver Surfe removes Supes mind from body. If Superman wants to Vibrate Silver Surfer breaks the bonds holding his atoms together thus sprinkling Supes body across the universe. If Supes tries to Speedblitz him SS makes a K-Nite or red sun aura(He would know about them because of cosmic awarness) around himself. Supes puts him in another reality or time SS uses his powers to get back and then SS could do the same to Supes but instead teleports him into a Red Sun

There is no evidence that Superman will be leaps and bounds above him in this fight only the idea that PC Supes being PC Supes is alot faster with no real backing behind it.

Like I said I know what kind of beast PC Supes was but when it is hard to argue a quick victory other than the hope he can put him down in one punch faster than the guy with no real backing and the other guy has access to everyway inmaginable on how to beat you it is hard to argue the majority for them.


Thank you. 🙂

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by Juntai
300 million times lightspeed is a lot faster than Surfer. Needless to say, he can vibrate himself out of time with reality, join another reality, or move through time at will, all with far greater control and frequency than Surfer.

SvFL doesn't really cover PC Supes, it's more of Batman be unable to through a 6 feet of solid titanium, but then kicking Captain Marvel unconscious and knocking the magic out of him[a far tougher feat]. Or as the name suggests... Spiderman kicking around Firelord.

Most of Supes' 'invented powers' are just variations of his powers, or multiple of powers he had shown used in conjunction with another. Surfer would be at far more of a disadvantage than PC supes if we took away one time powers. He would just fly and shoot blasts mostly, lol.


Yeah,I reread the rules, and I somehow missed the part about how the one use powers also had to be blatantly beyond their abilities. My bad. Anyway, I can even accept the one time use powers without to much problem, but I do have problem with him developing something new for the purposes of this fight, and that guy was acting like Supes could develop a Super-AntiSurfer eye blast, the way he was talking about him developing powers on the fly(which I'll admit he would do in a comic ). Also, that guy was trying to act like Superman didn't have a weakness to red sunlight or kryptonite, when they are established weaknesses(and if Superman did fight at full power like he said, I would say that does fall under the heading of blatantly beyond his abilities and bad writing, so that SHOULD be covered under SvFL).
But back to my point, does anyone have scans of an instance where Surfer was on the receiving end of a blitz? I for one can't think of one and I won't accept it as a possibility without evidence that it's a viable option.

Jesse7 Senior Member

Some one get the scans of the SS Vs Runner fight, the Runner speed blitzes SS several times in that fight.

Jesse7 Senior Member

Originally posted by newjak86
Well lets look at SS I'm not sure on the entire feat but in a picosecond he has calculated the entire size weight abilities of an army or armarda something like that easily and He travels really fast really fast.

The point is like I said from the begining say what you will about PC Supes he was only a beast when he needed to be to win a match. The fact is every power he could produce and has SS can reproduce it and do more things.

If Supes tries to lure him to a sun SS could change the sun into a red sun. If Supes tried to T-VO SS, Silver Surfe removes Supes mind from body. If Superman wants to Vibrate Silver Surfer breaks the bonds holding his atoms together thus sprinkling Supes body across the universe. If Supes tries to Speedblitz him SS makes a K-Nite or red sun aura(He would know about them because of cosmic awarness) around himself. Supes puts him in another reality or time SS uses his powers to get back and then SS could do the same to Supes but instead teleports him into a Red Sun

There is no evidence that Superman will be leaps and bounds above him in this fight only the idea that PC Supes being PC Supes is alot faster with no real backing behind it.

Like I said I know what kind of beast PC Supes was but when it is hard to argue a quick victory other than the hope he can put him down in one punch faster than the guy with no real backing and the other guy has access to everyway inmaginable on how to beat you it is hard to argue the majority for them.

You act as if Red sun radiation or Krypotnite actually ever defeated PC Supes, most of the time it affected him for a panel or two and then he overcame the weakness and became immune to it.

You say SS could beat Supes T-vo.......have you actually read supes comics in which he uses T-Vo on Abstract level being (I dunno what to call the guys level, he was clearly beyond sky father and RKT level) and defeated him with it? Are you going to call that PIS? Even if you do by forum rules its one of Supes powers and his feats when using it far surpass anything surfer has doen in that category.

Some one get the scans of the SS Vs Runner fight, the Runner speed blitzes SS several times in that fight.

RUNMAN SUICIDAL SANDBAR SURFER

Out of topic question: Could PC Supes return in time to save Krypton?

newjak86 I am Beyond Power

Originally posted by Jesse7
You act as if Red sun radiation or Krypotnite actually ever defeated PC Supes, most of the time it affected him for a panel or two and then he overcame the weakness and became immune to it.
You do realze if he gets weaker for a little time that is all SS needs to beat him by atomizing him. He could also drain Supes power source if he wanted. Just because these things haven't beaten him doesn't mean he hasn't been effected and weakened by them and as someone else said there is a first time for everything even PC Supes loosing.

You say SS could beat Supes T-vo.......have you actually read supes comics in which he uses T-Vo on Abstract level being (I dunno what to call the guys level, he was clearly beyond sky father and RKT level) and defeated him with it? Are you going to call that PIS? Even if you do by forum rules its one of Supes powers and his feats when using it far surpass anything surfer has doen in that category.
Exactly who was this Abstract level being that was beyond RKT. You just can't throw out those power levels saying it as such because you do realize Abstract level beings are beyond Galactus in power which in turn means supes should be able to beat DS if he wanted.

Some one get the scans of the SS Vs Runner fight, the Runner speed blitzes SS several times in that fight.
Wasn't you who said you shouldn't use people that are far Superior in power levels to the people being talked about.

Runner is a high level cosmic being that is literally supposed to be speed personified and is supposed to be able to be anywhere at anytime. Supes is no way in Runner's league.

Jesse7 Senior Member

Originally posted by newjak86
You do realze if he gets weaker for a little time that is all SS needs to beat him by atomizing him. He could also drain Supes power source if he wanted. Just because these things haven't beaten him doesn't mean he hasn't been effected and weakened by them and as someone else said there is a first time for everything even PC Supes loosing.

Exactly who was this Abstract level being that was beyond RKT. You just can't throw out those power levels saying it as such because you do realize Abstract level beings are beyond Galactus in power which in turn means supes should be able to beat DS if he wanted.

Wasn't you who said you shouldn't use people that are far Superior in power levels to the people being talked about.

Runner is a high level cosmic being that is literally supposed to be speed personified and is supposed to be able to be anywhere at anytime. Supes is no way in Runner's league.

Firstly, you say SS could defeat Supes by draining him, have you payed any attention to Supes entire history when has draining him every defeated him, espicially in the last 7 years.

Secondly, Im going to get the scans of this abstract being so you can see your self, and by the way Supes does beat DS as of recent. And also this holds no relevance to this debate because Darkseid dwarfs SS in every stat, and if you want to go by current DS then hes abstract level at the very least now that he has absorbed a portion of the infinite ALE, want to see scans of how powerful it is? Go to the PC Supes vs RKT thread I posted them there.

I am asked to provide an example of when SS has been speed blitzed, so I provide the example of when the Runner speed blitzed SS several times in the same fight, and now your saying I cant use it because hes above SS? What kind of logic is that, if anything that proves my argument further, the runner is faster then SS and was able to speed blitz him, PC Supes is faster then the runner thus he will be easily able to speed blitz SS.

Need I post the scans of PC Supes traveling 300 trillion times the speed of light, SS has never come close to this speed.

Or need I post the scans of PC Superboy who effortlessly traveled across universes in less then a fraction of asecond in a playful race with pc super girl no less?

Face it PC Supes out classes SS

newjak86 I am Beyond Power

Originally posted by Jesse7
Firstly, you say SS could defeat Supes by draining him, have you payed any attention to Supes entire history when has draining him every defeated him, espicially in the last 7 years.
Point he still is effected by it there is no debating that these things have and can effect him and that is all SS needs to beat him by atomizing him removing his mind from his body take your pick.

Secondly, Im going to get the scans of this abstract being so you can see your self, and by the way Supes does beat DS as of recent. And also this holds no relevance to this debate because Darkseid dwarfs SS in every stat, and if you want to go by current DS then hes abstract level at the very least now that he has absorbed a portion of the infinite ALE, want to see scans of how powerful it is? Go to the PC Supes vs RKT thread I posted them there.
Already checked it replied and you completely mistook what I said and DS dwarfs Supes in every stat as well

I am asked to provide an example of when SS has been speed blitzed, so I provide the example of when the Runner speed blitzed SS several times in the same fight, and now your saying I cant use it because hes above SS? What kind of logic is that, if anything that proves my argument further, the runner is faster then SS and was able to speed blitz him, PC Supes is faster then the runner thus he will be easily able to speed blitz SS.
No the Runner is leaps and bounds above anything in speed because the Runner is supposed to be the very essence of speed he is supposed to be able to be anywhere he wants at anytime he is so fast. So it isn't that you provided an instant it is that as you say you provided a poor one because the person like DS is above everyone in the match.

Jesse7 Senior Member

So he is affected, your logic is flawed by that i could say SS is still affected by brute force and punches, thus all it takes is that one momment for PC supes to punch surfer and he implodes, want to know why he would instantly die from one punch? Because Thanos and Thor are able to box and KO surfer in hand to hand combat, Thanos in particular KO'ed SS with nothing but punches and kicks. OR are you going to tell me Thanos is stronger then PC Supes? or that its all PIS?

DS does dwarf PC supes in physical stats, but hey thats all the more for my argument that DS is more powerful then you think, as I said PC Supes is far above anything SS can dream of, and DS is above Pc Supes, your point is moot the argument is SS vs pc supes.

The runner can be called the Speed force for all I care, what we go by is feats, and the runner wasnt this so called god of speed was he when Thanos completely schooled him.

Face it Pc Supes is faster then the Runner and SS combined, Pc Supes going cassualy at 300 trillion times the speed of light? Give me a break the runner and SS cant even compare to PC Supes

darthgoober Senior Member
Originally posted by Jesse7
Firstly, you say SS could defeat Supes by draining him, have you payed any attention to Supes entire history when has draining him every defeated him, espicially in the last 7 years.

First of all, how does ANYTHING Supes has done in the last 7 years, have any relevance to THIS fight, this is PC Superman.
Second, how many times in Surfers entire history has he actually lost a fight to a person without cosmic power just extraordinary strength and speed(Thanos and Thor dont's count because Thanos amps up his stats via cosmic power, and Thor uses his hammer which is Magical).

Jesse7 Senior Member

Many MANY times, Thor beat Surfer in h2h combat with no energy blast or magic twice, firstly when Surfer was tricked by Loki to attack Thor in asgard and secondly when Thor boxed and Ko'ed SS in the blood and reign arc I think.

Thanos has also KO'ed Surfer with nothing but punches and h2h fighting.

Ill find more examples.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by Jesse7
Many MANY times, Thor beat Surfer in h2h combat with no energy blast or magic twice, firstly when Surfer was tricked by Loki to attack Thor in asgard and secondly when Thor boxed and Ko'ed SS in the blood and reign arc I think.

Thanos has also KO'ed Surfer with nothing but punches and h2h fighting.

Ill find more examples.

Wait, so your go to say "Many MANY times, Thor beat Surfer in h2h combat with no energy blast or magic", and then you give two examples? Sorry but that ain't going to cut it. When were all these other times? Because unless I am mistaken, Surfer holds more wins over Thor than vise versa. It would also be nice if you could provide an example of it happening since Surfers recent power upgrade.
Regarding Thanos, he can amp up his stats with cosmic power(including strength) to unknown levels. That means that we don't know how strong he was when they were fighting. And as much as you hate to hear this, it also means that he could in fact be stronger than PC Superman, it's never been tested.
But none of this changes the fact that Surfer is capable of exploiting every weakness that Superman has. Now the fact that you say that on the forum he doesn't posses those weaknesses is irrelevant. Everyone else on this forum accepts kryptonite, red sunlight, and energy draining as weaknesses for Superman, even the fan-boys. And your inability to accept those because that would make Superman beatable, destroys your creditability in a debate such as this. The Superman that you described earlier couldn't be beaten by ANYONE. Not even Darkseid, Your bias on behalf of Superman is obvious to anyone reading your post, you make no effort to try to view things impartially, you just assume that Superman would win. Why? Because he's Superman and he's not allowed to lose. No evidence I, or anyone else showed you, would convince you so it's really pointless trying. Keep your delusions about your hero for all I care, because I'm not going to try to have a debate with someone who doesn't have any interest in figuring out who SHOULD win. Only ranting on about how great their hero is.

ExtraMision5555 SKELLETIL RESARCH

Pre chrisis supes & well written in the same sentence? oxymoron?

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Pre chrisis supes & well written in the same sentence? oxymoron?

Tell me about it.

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Bump.

psycho gundam The Nightmare of Solomon

smh

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

What? I can't bump a thread?
innocent

Endless Mike Sqirrel Girl fanboy

Supes blitzes him to death and beats him down easier than Thanos did