F4 vs. Superman

Originally posted by DrDoom
Reed was able to build the machine so fast because he had already known that he could SWITCH powers within the four FF members, but he couldn't take them away.

FF don't need prep? When Superman could kill 3/4 of them outright? He's faster than thought. Do you know what that means?

He would blitz Johnny before he could say "Flame On!!", he could KO Sue before she could even think of putting up a bubble, and he could freeze/melt Reed before he even knew what hit him. Grimm would last about 3 minutes or 10 seconds, depending if Supes wanted to throw him into space--or just pound the crap out of him.

He's no stranger to invisible combatants (White Martians anyone?), and it's not like anyone in the FF doesn't need to breathe--he'd just use his hearing to pick up their heartbeat/breathing. Then he'd take 'em out--even if he was blinded he could still use his hearing to guide him.

IW forcefield holding Superman? Mebbe for a few seconds, then IW would have to let him free from the strain. Then she'd get crushed.

Supes wins 8-9/10. they only get 30 mins. and that isn't nearly enough.

Also, that's pretty cheesy saying Reed would use his time machine to get a week of prep --the topic creator gave them 30 mins and 30 minutes only.

Superman Speed blitzing an entire team of good guys is about as likely as Sue causing an anurism in his brain. The FF have fought tougher adversaries than Superman....even as individuals.

U have to admit Superman is not much more of a threat than Thor. Then u could even stretch him out to being as big a threat as the Silver Surfer (I dont think he is anywhere close to him though). Regardless, thats not all that impressive for the FF. How many memebers of the FF have taken on Anihilus in the past? Anihilus raped Thor and had to be kicked out of Asgard by Odin. Or how about Cosmic Doom? The Thing has fought every strong guy in Marvel, including the Destroyer who is superior to Supes and Thor(most would argue that the Thing had the upper hand against the destroyer, its not about sheer strength).

If Superman can always jus speed blitz someone into the Sun then the JLA wouldnt be getting beat by deathstroke.

Wrong.F4 aren't strong enough to beat Sperman.

Originally posted by Wynndar
If Superman can always jus speed blitz someone into the Sun then the JLA wouldnt be getting beat by deathstroke.

The JLA sans most of their strongest members. Only Flash, Zee, and Kyle posed a real threat to Slade. If it was the current JLA it would've gone down a lot differently. He still would've won though, cuz he's good with prep.

Anyways...noone in comics is written to their full potential all of the time. It would be boring if Flash just pummeled everyone he faced at light speed. They wouldn't be able to hit him, and it would start to get stupid. Same for Superman and his blitzes. Or SS/Gladiator and their light speed. Hulk/Herc/Wonderman/etc. should just grab hold of every enemy that doesn't have flight powers and fling them into space, it would work but it would be boring after the 50th time. See what I'm getting at?

obviously...but that wasnt what i was debating. I was trying to emphasize how lame an argument it is to say SM can just speed blitz...conversely one could just say IW gives him an anurism.

I also pointed out how u had downplayed each member of the FF seeing that each of them has individually duelled more powerful opponents than SM and survived, sometimes even won.

How is it lame to say that when he would be outnumbered 4 to 1 he would use one of his powers to the max? He CAN do it--unlike Sue giving him an aneurysm.

Downplayed? What is Reed going to do to him? Try to wrap him up? He'd end up fried/frozen/in space before he knew it.
What is Johnny going to do? His flames can't hurt Superman, he's not as fast as Superman, and he's not even really durable--two punches from Supes and he's down.
Grimm can go a round or two with him--but that's it. He can't even touch Superman if Supes doesn't want him to.

Sue can hold her own for a bit, but we've all seen what happens when too much force is exerted on her field--she either has to back down or pass out from the strain.

well ur entitled to ur opinion for sure...But the torch doesnt need to just flame him to death and there is no evidence SM could withstand his hottest flame. The torch could beat SM the same way he beat Graviton.

Reed is more resilient and resourceful than u make him out to be. With the combination of his powers and tech he has taken on tougher than SM. And if he is fighting to the death as u r depicting SM, then he would be playing much like he did as the Dark Raider, a character who was worse than Dr Doom, and who would anihilate SM. Ur right, the Thing could go a round with him, just like he has gone with the Destroyer, Hulk, Occulus, Silver Surfer, Terrax, Gladiator, etc....a round is all he needs...the FF fight as a team. And like i said, Sue would have no trouble with someone like SM, she could easily blind him and trap him with a field. SM cannot blitz the FF unless he is sneaking up on them and attacking like u r depicting...whats keeping the FF from blitzing SM? or how can SM blitz a team he cant see? Or what if the FF create an illusion for him to blitz? SM is in trouble then huh?

Invisible GIRL passes out...IW holds it til it shatters as in the case of Doom with a watcher's amplified cosmic power...SM isnt 1/100th as powerful as that incarnation of Doom, he isnt breaking sh!t.

Originally posted by Wynndar
But the torch doesnt need to just flame him to death and there is no evidence SM could withstand his hottest flame.

Supes can spend literally thousands of years in the sun.

Without any harm.

No heat is gonna burn him.

It might HURT him - the first time he faced Bizarro, Bizarro used heat vision on him and it really caused him pain.

But it didn't physically injure him.

No-one in the F4 could hurt Supes.

Not if he didn't want them to.

Superman, the Fantastic 4 are horrible. No body on their team can compete with Superman.

The Fantastic Four are nothing compared to Superman.They'll be like bugs annoying him.

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
🙄 Supes isn't real, but you hate him so much🙄

Keep the faith 🤘

enjoy watching sentry crack up

Whirly 😇

The reason Sentry hates Superman is because Sentry is a clone of Superman you think Clones like the people they were created from? Sh-- I would.

Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
Supes can spend literally thousands of years in the sun.

Without any harm.

No heat is gonna burn him.

It might HURT him - the first time he faced Bizarro, Bizarro used heat vision on him and it really caused him pain.

But it didn't physically injure him.

No-one in the F4 could hurt Supes.

Not if he didn't want them to.

I thought Bizarro had fire breath.

yup as much as i hate superman he wins this

Originally posted by Dizzle
Damn... I really need to get to know those better. So far, I got no swearing, bloodlust, and my newfound "general knowledge" powers down...

Anyhoo, the 30 minutes to 2 weeks is pretty retarded, if I do say so myself.

Superman destroys them in a straight up fight.

Weird as this may sound the F4 actually would possibly fair better in this fight than the one against Wonder Woman (and before ppl start screaming) its' only because he does have the kryptonite weakness and the ever so exploitable magic weakness as Diana has none the still die horrible, horrible deaths.

Scenario: Johnny flames on and goes straight for supes and is *****slapped and his neck is broken.
Reed attempts to stretch and is frozen via super breath and the supes picks up thing and smashes him.
Thing is then punched a few times with super speed then falls unconscious.
Sue utilizing this time has turned invisible and already put up a force field unfortunately a few meteor blasting attacks at super speed tire her out and then using X-ray vision supes finds her and kills her with heat vision and then leaves.
With the FF dead Dr.Doom comes out and says FINALLY! and then takes the young and now orphaned Franklin Richards under his arm and teaches him the the ways of the Doom. Franklin say in about 10-15 years later comes back to kill supes.

Superman should EASILY win this fight. No one here can stop Superman from delivering a near light speed slap to the face as soon as the bell rings.

They won't even know what happened. Fight shouldn't reach 1 second.

I've seen this point missed in so many threads, I don't know where to begin, so I'm just starting here...

Forget magic, forget siphoning solar energy, forget even kryptonite. Superman, as much as I admire the character, has one more major weakness, and it is among the most common forces in the universe, easy enough to generate. It is only because of bad writing that we don't see it used more often in comics (eg, in OWAW, tell me Braniac or Imperiex couldn't think of this--I know in the past Luthor has, many, many times)...

Red sunlight. Period. Next.

Originally posted by Mindship
I've seen this point missed in so many threads, I don't know where to begin, so I'm just starting here...

Forget magic, forget siphoning solar energy, forget even kryptonite. Superman, as much as I admire the character, has one more major weakness, and it is among the most common forces in the universe, easy enough to generate. It is only because of bad writing that we don't see it used more often in comics (eg, in OWAW, tell me Braniac or Imperiex couldn't think of this--I know in the past Luthor has, many, many times)...

Red sunlight. Period. Next.

Also, who is going to be fast enough to use it before catching a light speed punch that would be ko or even death for these characters?

And is Reed going to know Supermans weakness and build a red sun generator in his 30 min prep time?

sue storm givin supes a( )( )flash (hes a sucker for chics hehe) would be the distraction they need for reed to slip ben the kryptonite gauntlet and sukcer punch him while hes hypnotised by sues ( )( )s then after weakened beaten knocked out torchie nova blasts him out of existence. Guess that works LOL

Originally posted by Juntai
Except he defeated Zod under a red sun.

Also, who is going to be fast enough to use it before catching a light speed punch that would be ko or even death for these characters?

And is Reed going to know Supermans weakness and build a red sun generator in his 30 min prep time?

Don't get me wrong; the red sun weakness - how it is/isn't used - bother me in its inconsistency.

Doesn't Zod also lose his powers under a red sun (I could be outta date with this, I don't know)?

It doesnt matter how fast Superman moves if his opponent is already radiating red sun radiation. And again, Luthor has used it many times to good effect. Why not Braniac or Imperiex, the latter (at least) who is no slouch in the speed department.

This I would agree with: with no prior knowledge, Reed wouldn't know.

Again, I like Supes, he's my #2 favorite. And the red sun weakness is a logical, believable weakness. I just don't like when the option is conveniently ignored simply for a story's sake.