hmmm well after reading everything that both have put down it does seem that The Source does = TOAA. The Phoenix Force went INTO THE SOURCE from what i have read on here in a crossover. it does then seem from that TOAA is a abstract of The Presence. TOAA means The One Above All which to me seems that would fit with The Source because it is The One Above All in the DC/Marvel Multiverse. also Syncho has said The Source looks like a yellow rock human, and The Living Tribunal is a yellowish humanoid being as well so does anyone else think that is strange?(not saying The Source is The Living Tribunal if some ppl may think that is what im saying, just saying The Source/TOAA could have made The Living Tribunal in his likeness), it is also said, All things are linked through the Source, especially living things, and since Phoenix Force does create living things for TOAA and is its greatest aspect in the Multiverse that is another reason i would say for now TOAA = The Source. and from what i have read also seeing that Phoenix went into The Source and Lucifer ignored The Source it would seem Lucifer could win against Phoenix Force. in DC/Vertigo it says nobody is above Lucy or Michael but The Presence and that would have to include them being above Phoenix Force. also TOAA hasn't ever been seen but do u think they could have been pointing it out that TOAA is The Source in the crossover?? i think they probably was. Do you both think that it could be true Synchro, GS???
Originally posted by kevdude
hmmm well after reading everything that both have put down it does seem that The Source does = TOAA. The Phoenix Force went INTO THE SOURCE from what i have read on here in a crossover. it does then seem from that TOAA is a abstract of The Presence. TOAA means The One Above All which to me seems that would fit with The Source because it is The One Above All in the DC/Marvel Multiverse. also Syncho has said The Source looks like a yellow rock human, and The Living Tribunal is a yellowish humanoid being as well so does anyone else think that is strange?(not saying The Source is The Living Tribunal if some ppl may think that is what im saying, just saying The Source/TOAA could have made The Living Tribunal in his likeness), it is also said, All things are linked through the Source, especially living things, and since Phoenix Force does create living things for TOAA and is its greatest aspect in the Multiverse that is another reason i would say for now TOAA = The Source. and from what i have read also seeing that Phoenix went into The Source and Lucifer ignored The Source it would seem Lucifer could win against Phoenix Force. in DC/Vertigo it says nobody is above Lucy or Michael but The Presence and that would have to include them being above Phoenix Force. also TOAA hasn't ever been seen but do u think they could have been pointing it out that TOAA is The Source in the crossover?? i think they probably was. Do you both think that it could be true Synchro, GS???
I think not. Since when is the Source a yellow being?
He's what I've gathered from your post:
- Source=TOAA
- TOAA is abstract of the Presence
- Source=looks like yellow rock human
- LT=yellow
- Maybe Source=LT
...so it goes Presence>TOAA=Source=LT<TOAA
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Here's my opinion...
Presence = TOAA
- Source = aspect of Presence
- Infinity Being (IG saga) = aspect of TOAA???
- PF = aspect of TOAA???
However, Lucifer has proven to be above the Source. LT imo is above TOAA's aspects as well. LT has more than any other being proven to be second only to TOAA (IG, Infinity Watch #1, IW, The End).
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""You only cleared this up now? You couldve said it to me a long time ago. We wouldve saved a lot of space. And who wouldn’t interpret it as “One with all that is=Created everything” if your keep bringing up “Phoenix is one with eveything” in our every discussion about whether or not Phoenix created everything?
And about your “comic references”, Ive already picked out the flaws in it. Check them out for confirmation.
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I couldve said it a long time ago? I did. It was one of the first things i said. I told you what was said in the comics about phoenix creating everything. Her being one with everything is just something i talked about more. Synchy knowing what you know now go and look back at my references all of them contain all you need to know about phoenix. I forgot i wasnt dealing with someone clued up on Marvel so i assumed you had some prior knowledge when i was picking the quotes, however the comics ive refernced suffice in providing all the info you need in finding out that phoenix is responsible for creation and is one with everything singlehandedly.
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""No. Michael STARTS creation by providing the very first matter. And Lucifer finishes creation by shaping that matter into… well… everything. So by linking that up, the brothers together not just starts creation, but creates everything in existence.
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It becomes creation when Lucifer has finished shaping the matter Michael provided. Michael doesnt start creation, he starts working on creation which Lucifer then turns into the finished product. From that point onwards creation is started. By linking it up the brothers jointly start creation and jointly make everything in existence. With the absence of one of them, the other could neither get creation started or be responsible for the creation of everything.
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""Ive already exlained to you everything as to why Lucifer is one with his multiverse. Lucifer has enacted his name on everything in existence which in turn making him one with it. Ive supported that by bringing up Michael enacting Yahweh’s name into every atom of existence to keep the DC Multiverse by collapsing.
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Lets get this straight Synchy. All you've done is convey your misunderstanding of what was going on in the Lucifer comics. Ive explained to you what was really happening when Lucifer was enacting his name. You have yet to show me where Lucifer enacted his name on everything in existence. So far you showed me a quote which says Lucifer enacted his name which he did in said quote by making suns. As ive said before whether he went on to make other stuff afterwards is irrelevant. That quote was supposed to be the evidence and in that respect it failed. Showing me how Michael enacted Yahwehs name into every atom of the Dc multiverse to keep it from collapsing is not evidence that Lucifer enacting his name means he's putting essence into his multivese for the same effect. Youre not stupid you know what the words mean literally and as an english literature student i can tell you theres no hidden meaning or play on words which supports your claims at all. Its just not the case. Deal with it. Before you reply to just this paragraph read on because im about to tell you why.
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""And your only rebuttal for that is: Yahweh means to bring to existence, to give life so its only fitting for him to enact his name and be one with it, while Lucifer cant be doing the same because the meaning of his name is different than Yahweh.
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Again you misunderstood Synchy. Until you've proven to me through a scan or a quote that says/shows Lucifer puts his essence into every atom of the multiverse or one that similarly shows he's one with it in a similar way to how Presence and Phoenix are with theirs then im saying he cant. I am NOT saying he cant just because the meaning of his name is inappropriate. What i said before was that by enacting his name he is NOT becoming one with his multiverse that feat is not inherent to his name as it is with Presences. Therefore enacting his name isnt going to do the same thing as it did with Presence. If he is the life force of his multiverse which gives everthing life, which sustains everything then show me, however if that is the case then he did not do it by enacting his name. Do you understand now?
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""Seriously GS, that’s not enough. Because if were just gonna base it on the meaning of there names, then Lucifer’s Multiverse wouldn’t have been created in the first place because the meaning of the names Lucifer and Michael does not mean “to bring existence, to give lfe”
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Ive explained this above. Enacting ones name doesnt result in the same thing universally. For Prsence it means to give life to. In that quote you showed me for Lucifer it referred to him creating stars which brought light obviously. Im not saying they cant create life, im saying that they dont achieve it by enacting their names. Therefore you were wrong and you still have a point to prove. Try and make sure you understand something properly before you start writing parargraph upon paragraph criticising it. Dont respond so impulsively. Do that and you'll save yourself a lot of time and effort. Youre the only one out of those ive spoken to who interpreted it so completely wrong.
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""Plus Ive always brought up the fact that a Multiverse/Universe will collapse if there’s no essence running through it to keep it alive. This is supported by the fact that the DC Multiverse was collapsing when The Presence, whose essence runs through everything in DC, left. So, someone wouldve been holding Lucifer’s Multiverse to keep it from collapsing. And seeing that its not The Presence’s Multiverse, then who would be more fitting to do that than Lucifer?
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You have said yourself that Lucifer was given by Prsence his will while Michael was granted his demiurgic power. Do you not what demiurgic means Synchy? It is to do with creation, it gives life to creation, it is of the creator. Lucifer does not wield such energies so how pray tell would he be the life force which sustains and is one with all of his creation, like Phoenix is with marvels multiverse or Presence is with his? The original multiverse in DC was given life by the demiurgic energies of Michael, the creators energies and essence. This matter was then shaped by Lucifer with his god given will. When the the multiverse was collapsing with the absence of the Prsence it was again Michael who saved it by using his demiurgic powers, the essence of the presence to save it.
You say that Lucifer created his own multiverse by killing Michael. This released his demiurgic energies. Lucifer obtained the matter which was infused with these energies and then he shaped it again with his god given will. By your own words Lucifer doesnt have demiurgic ( of the creator, life giving) powers he was given gods will. You have yet to show any sufficient evidence that states or shows Lucifer being the life sustaining force of his or any multiverse or that he is one with it all, that he permeates it. His role has always been to shape matter after it was given life by MIchael. If Lucifer could impart his essence into a multiverse and sustain and become one with it then why didnt he stop the DC multiverse from collapsing? Why was it Michael, why is the role of life giver always Michael? From all of the evidence you've provided it seems to me that it is Michaels demiurgic energies which sustain Lucifers multiverse. Lucifer is more of a shaper not a life giver/sustainer. That was his god given role. Until you prove to me that this is not the case then that is how it seems to me and virtually all of the people on here i have spoken to. That is how it is going to be taken. However im open to convincing. Whenever youre ready.
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""And how can you explain to me the bubble-things that formed Lucifer when he was creating the gates? The bubbles-things were separating from him and going elsewhere when he was creating the gates.
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Do you want to post a scan of this then. This is far from sufficient evidence. That could just be artistic interpretation. It hardly proves or even really supports that Lucifers eseence is one with all his multiverse or that he is the life force which sustains it. That has never been his role before. It was always Michael. Youre obviously a Lucifer fan and you so want it to be true but all the evidence you've presented you've misinterpreted, even my evidence you've misinterpreted and ive had to spell it out for you. I really think you should go back and have another read of those Lucifer comics cos i really think you've got it wrong. All of your evidence really does suggest that.
When you have new evidence or scans then please present themid be happy to crtique them. However if youre going to argue over the validity of your current "evidence" then i really wouldnt bother its tremendously flawed i've picked it apart several times and have explained it to you.
Originally posted by Superherovandal
I still would say that LT is above Phoenix. Lucifer and Micheal could beat Phoenix. Noone never ever said she was above LT.
Get this straight SV. Xmen Forever talked of how the abstracts were scared because the evolution of humaity would result in beings that surpassed and would in turn replace the abstracts. LT included. Read the book. Jean was the first to reach that ultimate potential. Quentin Quire who evolved about a year and a half ago in New Xmen died well physically at least. Jean then found that he had evolved into a phoenix just like her. The Phoenix is the ultimate mutation Xmen Forever was talking about. That is why Stranger wanted to use Jean to put himself above all of the other abstracts. Eternity said to Jean that he and the other abstracts accepted their fate and there would be no intervention. Everyone will eventually evolve into a phoenix and be a part of creation. As one of the abstracts shown to be due to get replaced LT is below Jean as Phoenix of the white crown. Read my previous post a page back it goes into more detail along with references. Sorry SV thats just how it is.
GS to make it more simple of what i said here:
The Source = TOAA (since nobody has ever seen TOAA in marvel but we have seen The Phoenix Force going INTO The Source in a crossover pointing out that TOAA is The Source.
The Living Tribunal does not = TOAA/The Source, i said TOAA could have made LT in his likeness. Lately The Source has developed a living incarnation in Takion (which Takion is also yellowish).
The Presence is God the Father and TOAA/The Source is 1 of Gods abstracts helping keeping all living things alive. The Source is Above everything and watching everything in the DC/Marvel Multiverse.
And since Lucifer Morningstar has been seen ignoring The Source, I would say he is also above The Phoenix Force.
Originally posted by kevdude
GS to make it more simple of what i said here:
The Source = TOAA (since nobody has ever seen TOAA in marvel but we have seen The Phoenix Force going INTO The Source in a crossover pointing out that TOAA is The Source.
The Living Tribunal does not = TOAA/The Source, i said TOAA could have made LT in his likeness. Lately The Source has developed a living incarnation in Takion (which Takion is also yellowish).
The Presence is God the Father and TOAA/The Source is Gods Will keeping all living things alive. The Source is Above everything and watching everything in the DC/Marvel Multiverse.And since Lucifer Morningstar has been seen ignoring The Source, I would say he is also above The Phoenix Force.
TOAA = God
if anybody is (marvel)= Source it whould be PF
Originally posted by GalacticStorm I couldve said it a long time ago? I did. It was one of the first things i said. I told you what was said in the comics about phoenix creating everything. Her being one with everything is just something i talked about more. Synchy knowing what you know now go and look back at my references all of them contain all you need to know about phoenix. I forgot i wasnt dealing with someone clued up on Marvel so i assumed you had some prior knowledge when i was picking the quotes, however the comics ive refernced suffice in providing all the info you need in finding out that phoenix is responsible for creation and is one with everything singlehandedly.
Again, Ive countered all the references you gave me. Your references doesnt prove that Phoenix created everything.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm It becomes creation when Lucifer has finished shaping the matter Michael provided. Michael doesnt start creation, he starts working on creation which Lucifer then turns into the finished product. From that point onwards creation is started. By linking it up the brothers jointly start creation and jointly make everything in existence. With the absence of one of them, the other could neither get creation started or be responsible for the creation of everything.
What the hell is so hard to understand here? Michael STARTS creation by providing matter, thats it. Thats starting creation just like Phoenix starting creation by creating life. They just have different methods in starting it. Lucifer FINISHES it by shaping the matter into everything(including the concepts which Michael can also do courtesy of Lucifer #15). If you link this up, both created the WHOLE creation together(which Phoenix cant do by her own). But creation will not START if Michael is not around to provide the first matter, get it?
Originally posted by GalacticStorm Lets get this straight Synchy. All you've done is convey your misunderstanding of what was going on in the Lucifer comics. Ive explained to you what was really happening when Lucifer was enacting his name. You have yet to show me where Lucifer enacted his name on everything in existence. So far you showed me a quote which says Lucifer enacted his name which he did in said quote by making suns. As ive said before whether he went on to make other stuff afterwards is irrelevant. That quote was supposed to be the evidence and in that respect it failed. Showing me how Michael enacted Yahwehs name into every atom of the Dc multiverse to keep it from collapsing is not evidence that Lucifer enacting his name means he's putting essence into his multivese for the same effect. Youre not stupid you know what the words mean literally and as an english literature student i can tell you theres no hidden meaning or play on words which supports your claims at all. Its just not the case. Deal with it. Before you reply to just this paragraph read on because im about to tell you why.
Why dont you tell that to Mike Carey then(author of Lucifer). Because of your blind love of Phoenix you refuse to believe something that is already written. Mike Carey wrote that Lucifer enacted his name when he created his Multiverse. And in the issue where Michael wrote Yahweh's name in the DC Multiverse, Mike Carey wrote the same thing. That is a FACT. Seriously, HOW is that not the same. C'mon Phoenix Fanboy.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm Again you misunderstood Synchy. Until you've proven to me through a scan or a quote that says/shows Lucifer puts his essence into every atom of the multiverse or one that similarly shows he's one with it in a similar way to how Presence and Phoenix are with theirs then im saying he cant. I am NOT saying he cant just because the meaning of his name is inappropriate. What i said before was that by enacting his name he is NOT becoming one with his multiverse that feat is not inherent to his name as it is with Presences. Therefore enacting his name isnt going to do the same thing as it did with Presence. If he is the life force of his multiverse which gives everthing life, which sustains everything then show me, however if that is the case then he did not do it by enacting his name. Do you understand now?
Inherent to Presence's name? lol!!!, tell me how is it inherent to Presence's/Yahweh's name when you yourself said that the name Yahweh means to cause be, to bring existence, to give life. That name doesnt mean anything about being one with everything. And yet you still say that being one with everything is inherent ONLY to Presence's name? What a shame.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm Ive explained this above. Enacting ones name doesnt result in the same thing universally. For Prsence it means to give life to. In that quote you showed me for Lucifer it referred to him creating stars which brought light obviously. Im not saying they cant create life, im saying that they dont achieve it by enacting their names. Therefore you were wrong and you still have a point to prove. Try and make sure you understand something properly before you start writing parargraph upon paragraph criticising it. Dont respond so impulsively. Do that and you'll save yourself a lot of time and effort. Youre the only one out of those ive spoken to who interpreted it so completely wrong.
No. Lucifer doesnt need to enact his name to create life. He created his version of Adam and Eve without enacting his name, he created his version of Earth without enacting his name, he created everything without enacting his name. As Ive said over and over again, Lucifer enacted his name so that he could be ONE with his multiverse, not to create it.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm You have said yourself that Lucifer was given by Prsence his will while Michael was granted his demiurgic power. Do you not what demiurgic means Synchy? It is to do with creation, it gives life to creation, it is of the creator. Lucifer does not wield such energies so how pray tell would he be the life force which sustains and is one with all of his creation, like Phoenix is with marvels multiverse or Presence is with his? The original multiverse in DC was given life by the demiurgic energies of Michael, the creators energies and essence. This matter was then shaped by Lucifer with his god given will. When the the multiverse was collapsing with the absence of the Prsence it was again Michael who saved it by using his demiurgic powers, the essence of the presence to save it.You say that Lucifer created his own multiverse by killing Michael. This released his demiurgic energies. Lucifer obtained the matter which was infused with these energies and then he shaped it again with his god given will. By your own words Lucifer doesnt have demiurgic ( of the creator, life giving) powers he was given gods will. You have yet to show any sufficient evidence that states or shows Lucifer being the life sustaining force of his or any multiverse or that he is one with it all, that he permeates it. His role has always been to shape matter after it was given life by MIchael. If Lucifer could impart his essence into a multiverse and sustain and become one with it then why didnt he stop the DC multiverse from collapsing? Why was it Michael, why is the role of life giver always Michael? From all of the evidence you've provided it seems to me that it is Michaels demiurgic energies which sustain Lucifers multiverse. Lucifer is more of a shaper not a life giver/sustainer. That was his god given role. Until you prove to me that this is not the case then that is how it seems to me and virtually all of the people on here i have spoken to. That is how it is going to be taken. However im open to convincing. Whenever youre ready.
Think thoroughly what you just said and you'll find out the flaws in your post. First, you logic of Michael being the one sustaining Lucifer's Multiverse is wrong. Ask yourself, if Michael is the one who sustains life to Lucifer's Multiverse, then why isnt Lucifer's Multiverse collapsing? I mean Michael only stepped on Lucifer's Multiverse 2 times(one when Lucifer killed him and created his Multiverse and the other was when he warned Lucifer about The Presence's rule of "only 1 multi should exist"😉 in the WHOLE Lucifer Comic Book. He never went in it ever again. So again ask yourself how would a multiverse be sustained when the one who is sustaining it is RARELY seen in that multiverse? Michael has always been at The Presence's Multiverse and doesnt plan on leaving it.
Technically, yes, Michael is the giver of life(matter), but by no means does he sustain it.
Heck I dont even need to refute your flawed logic. I couldve just lied and say that you were right. Because even if Michael has the ability to sustain life and be one with everything while Lucifer doesnt, it still wouldnt mean anything because theyre still equal in power and will always be equal.
So ultimately, even if Phoenix has the ability to sustain life and be one with everything while Lucifer doesnt, it still doesnt mean that she's stronger than him.
Its a win-win situation for me GS.
And Lucifer was in his Multiverse when DC was collapsing. Thats the reason why he wasnt the one who wrote Yahweh's name into DC. Heck would Lucifer even bother to do that even if he was there? Remember that Lucifer has a deep grudge against The Presence, most likely he would just let it collapse and go back to his multiverse. He wouldnt be more happier than that.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm Do you want to post a scan of this then. This is far from sufficient evidence. That could just be artistic interpretation. It hardly proves or even really supports that Lucifers eseence is one with all his multiverse or that he is the life force which sustains it. That has never been his role before. It was always Michael. Youre obviously a Lucifer fan and you so want it to be true but all the evidence you've presented you've misinterpreted, even my evidence you've misinterpreted and ive had to spell it out for you. I really think you should go back and have another read of those Lucifer comics cos i really think you've got it wrong. All of your evidence really does suggest that.When you have new evidence or scans then please present themid be happy to crtique them. However if youre going to argue over the validity of your current "evidence" then i really wouldnt bother its tremendously flawed i've picked it apart several times and have explained it to you.
Ive already pointed out the flaws on your "Michael sustains life and is one with everything because of his demiurgic powers, while Lucifer doesnt" logic.
And the bubble things, go check Lucifer #20.
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""Again, Ive countered all the references you gave me. Your references doesnt prove that Phoenix created everything.
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At the end of the day all you need to do is check out the Xmen Forever mini to see that phoenix is responsible for making, maintaining and theeventual destruction of all of creation. Phoenix then begins the process all over again.
In F4 this year (i'll get back to you on the exact issue but it came out this year and its only July now) It stated that phoenix was responsible for the creation of the multiverse and the abstracts. That is very much everything. We've already established that we disagree over what is greater out of phoenix creating concepts in the multiverse who have the ability to manifest a physical form or lucifer just creating the concepts. Either way phoenix created those concepts just the same, so they along with all the multiverse is pretty much creation Synchy.
Plus theres the classic Xmen quotes where she calls the stars and planets her "children"
Ive already proved that Phoenix is one with everything so unless youre in denial i dont need to reiterate that to you as well i hope. Thats it. end of.
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""What the hell is so hard to understand here? Michael STARTS creation by providing matter, thats it. Thats starting creation just like Phoenix starting creation by creating life. They just have different methods in starting it. Lucifer FINISHES it by shaping the matter into everything(including the concepts which Michael can also do courtesy of Lucifer #15). If you link this up, both created the WHOLE creation together(which Phoenix cant do by her own). But creation will not START if Michael is not around to provide the first matter, get it?
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Michael doesnt start creation because creation is more than just matter. Michael contributes to the starting of creation. Lucifer shaping that matter into life and the multiverse starts creation. You see the difference? Neither of them individually can start creation its a joint effort.
Synchy i am not going to repeat myself. Phoenix is the primal force of creation responsible for the creation of all that is in marvel. All the physical, the concepts and so on. We've agreed to disagree on what feat is greater out of Phoenix and Lucifers creation of concepts. At the end of the day they both create concepts. Phoenixes concepts can just become physical if they wish. They are just variations of the same thing. If it was Lucifer who had created concepts that could give themselves physical bodies then you would be arguing the other way around. Be adult about this Synchy and lets move on. As is the case with both cases if neither Phoenix or Lucifer created those concepts then they wouldnt be present in their multiverses. End of.
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""Because of your blind love of Phoenix you refuse to believe something that is already written. Mike Carey wrote that Lucifer enacted his name when he created his Multiverse.
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Listen to what you're saying boy. Enacting your name while creating the multiverse is very very different to enacting your name to create the multiverse or enacting your name in order to become on with it. Unless you've got a scan or a quote which states that Lucifer achieved either of those things through enacting his name (which i doubt very much because it wouldnt make sense.) then ive dealt with this already. Lucifer did enact his name you've proven that with your quote its just that what that resulted in isnt what you hoped it did. I had to tell just what it entailed after you misinterpreted it and tried to post it as evidence for Lucifer becoming one with his multiverse and sustaining it with his life force(despite not even having such life giving powers by your own admission) just because during the making of the main mverse the Presences name was enacted which resulted in it being given life. Im sorry but whats so hard to understand. I know youre not stupid you know what the words mean. In your quote The Lightbringer enacted his name by creating stars. Simple as. Its really not debatable. If he enacted his name with different results then show me a scan or alternative quote along with issue number and we''l talk. Until then you're wrong and i think you realise that underneath it all.
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""And in the issue where Michael wrote Yahweh's name in the DC Multiverse, Mike Carey wrote the same thing. That is a FACT. Seriously, HOW is that not the same.
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But whats your point? Its true in both cases. During the creation of their two multiverses they enacted their names. Im not disagreeing with that Synchy. However what these enactions resulted in was different for both of them. Lucifers (LightBringer, LightBearer, MorningStar) enaction resulted in stars being made out of the matter Michael provided for him. Yahwehs( to bring into existence, to give life to, to cause to be) resulted in the multiverse being given life. Lucifer doesnt have life giving/sustaining powers he was given gods will. It isnt within his god given abilities to do so. That is why it was Michael (who was given such life giving abilities ) that provided the demiurgic (of the creator/god, to do with the making of creation) matter for both the main and Lucifers own multiverse.
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""Inherent to Presence's name? lol!!!, tell me how is it inherent to Presence's/Yahweh's name when you yourself said that the name Yahweh means to cause be, to bring existence, to give life. That name doesnt mean anything about being one with everything. And yet you still say that being one with everything is inherent ONLY to Presence's name? What a shame.
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Ok let me sort this out once and for all. Listen up Synchy cos i dont wanna hear this nonsense again. I'll state what i mean clear as day. The act of enacting Presences name isnt what made Presence one with the his multiverse its the fact that Michael while using his demiurgic powers (of GOD, to do with the making of creation) enacted Yahwehs name on every atom of the multiverse. That embedded Presences essence to the multiverse at that sub-atomic level. The enacting isnt what made Presence one with the multiverse it was that. The enacting of Yahweh gave life to the matter after Michael had used his power at that sub-atomic level. Michael is the life giver. Just by using his demiurgic powers on the matter he created, the matter Lucifer would later shape into a multiverse Michael enacted Yahwehs name because he gave life to it. The demiurgic energies are Yahwehs essence that is what it means. Glad we've got that cleared up. I should have spelled it out from the beginning. I'll know for next time.