Originally posted by Deus Ex
I like how he tried to argue that Goku was over a hundred mil in power level by the Freeza saga, despite my proof otherwise.Can we say "omfg fanboy"?
you didn't have proof.. you had more "hearsay evidence"..I asked you when, where, and whom supplied your "confirmed stats"..you didn't reply.. the fact that you think you're actually superior in some way because you chose to ignore the question is adbsurd..
think about it.... you said it yourself...
<<<"500 000 was his base...he has for Stages each doubles">>> and we know he was easily 1 million at level 2... at level 3 he would be at 2 million.. and at level 4 he would be at 4 million... (lowest estimate)....
goku had to be at four million to even present a challenge to frieza in his final form.... he was using KIOKEN TIMES 20... that would easily put him up to 80 million.... and frieza was still beating him like a red headed stepchild... and they continued to get stronger and stronger even after that...
sorry "bud" but you've just been defeated by your own innacurate and twisted logic... or "proof" or whatever you're calling it these days...
Originally posted by jinzinIf by twusted you mean valid in what actual logical reasonable, non-fanboys use sort of logic, then yes it's ver ytwisted.
you didn't have proof.. you had more "hearsay evidence"..I asked you when, where, and whom supplied your "confirmed stats"..you didn't reply.. the fact that you think you're actually superior in some way because you chose to ignore the question is adbsurd..think about it.... you said it yourself...
<<<"500 000 was his base...he has for Stages each doubles">>> and we know he was easily 1 million at level 2... at level 3 he would be at 2 million.. and at level 4 he would be at 4 million... (lowest estimate)....
goku had to be at four million to even present a challenge to frieza in his final form.... he was using KIOKEN TIMES 20... that would easily put him up to 80 million.... and frieza was still beating him like a red headed stepchild... and they continued to get stronger and stronger even after that...
sorry "bud" but you've just been defeated by your own innacurate and twisted logic... or "proof" or whatever you're calling it these days...
Seriously though, DBZ side has no evidence and yet they win?
Sounds a hell of a lot like Spiderman in the Spiderman vs Wolverine threads. They have no evidence, refute actual evidence with poor logic and claims of PIS, and STILL think they win. . . But you should know that since you're usually arguing on the side with actual evidence, not what you THINK the character should be. . unlike you are doing now.
Originally posted by jinzin
you didn't have proof.. you had more "hearsay evidence"..I asked you when, where, and whom supplied your "confirmed stats"..you didn't reply.. the fact that you think you're actually superior in some way because you chose to ignore the question is adbsurd..think about it.... you said it yourself...
<<<"500 000 was his base...he has for Stages each doubles">>> and we know he was easily 1 million at level 2... at level 3 he would be at 2 million.. and at level 4 he would be at 4 million... (lowest estimate)....
goku had to be at four million to even present a challenge to frieza in his final form.... he was using KIOKEN TIMES 20... that would easily put him up to 80 million.... and frieza was still beating him like a red headed stepchild... and they continued to get stronger and stronger even after that...
sorry "bud" but you've just been defeated by your own innacurate and twisted logic... or "proof" or whatever you're calling it these days...
And here's Goku struggling to push a moutain apart, which isn't enough to stop Superman.
http://anime.myfavoritegames.com/dragonball-z/Media/Video_Clips/DBZ-Video08.mov
And here's Vegeta trying to kill Goku with a spiky rock in the caves (not very durable 😕 ).
http://dragonballarena.gamesurf.it/english/media/clips/original_dbz.php
Supes wins. 😄
<<<”You're doing the same thing the spiderman fans are doing in the vs wolverine threads.”>>>
No I’m not 🙄… the spiderman fans claim that spiderman is capable of doing something (KOing logan/dodging everything) even after spiderman’s proven to be incapable of accomplishing said feat in spite of actually trying… I’ve provided you evidence for everything I’ve claimed and all you can combat it with is the misuse of the word hyperbole…
If anything, you seem to be debating more like a spiderman fan here, ignoring the fact that superman has been both hit and staggered by slower and weaker opponents than goku simply due to a few pictures of him moving fast…
<<<”Then put in the support beams ”>>>
I already have, it’s not my fault that you choose to ignore the evidence you don’t agree with.. what more can I do?
<<<”Hyperbole and hearsay are insufficient.”>>>
Then it’s a good thing I’m not using them.. I’m using feats as a basis and power levels as the “support beams” to further my arguments.. but as I said if you’re going to ignore how power levels work than there’s no use in debating with you on the matter since you’re ignoring what the dbz characters can do…
<<<“No, we've already had people try to lower supes down with out dated evidence that is counteracted by newer events.”>>>
Newer events? Okay.. superman got punched over cascades my a single doomsday animate… creatures that couldn’t even touch batman…
He got smacked around by the flaming skull from the axis of evil….
He got messed up by wonder woman.. all characters who wouldn’t even hold a candle to goku.. not even close… at all…..
<<<”Now why would I POSSIBLY think that?”>>> cause it’s true… a possessed batman with a 50 ton strength increase beat the crap out of him…
<<<“Outdated. ”>>>
Wrong again.. the 3 examples I just gave you were all from comics that have been on the shelves for the last couple of months now…
<<<“I'm sorry if he's at a level greater than you want him to be. Goku's the one that hasn't once shown to be up to where you say he is. ”>>>
He’s literally thousands upon thousands of times stronger than a guy who was able to level a planet with his finger tip… how so?
<<<”I'm affraid you wanting him to be lower doesn't make it true. How about instead of lowering Superman down from levels we've already shown him to be at, you show goku is at the levels you say he is. “>>>
It has nothing to do with how I want him to be.. the fact is he’s not as powerful as people are assuming him to be here… we’ve already shown how goku is as powerful as our claims provide.. you can’t seem to cope…
<<<“Oh so now it's pis because you don't like it?”>>>
Not really… perhaps PIS was the wrong word to use (not that I was evenmaking a statement but asking a question, but whatever) but I couldn’t think of another one….. how about exaggeration is that better?
<<<“THis coming from the man who tries to rationalize S vs FL? You just called the black hole feats pis.”>>>
No I didn’t… I asked a question…
<<<<“Contradicted your last statement.”>>>
What stament? It was a question get over it…
<<<“Your interpritation of supes, much like the spiderfans saying logan was begging for his life in any encounter with spiderman.”>>>
It has nothing to do with my interpretation but rather how he’s been presented… even recently.. sorry you don’t like it…
<<<”He holds back, Like the other superheros. If they didn't hold back Logan would have killed Peter.”>>>
You mean like how vegeta held back the destructive force of his power to keep the earth in one piece.. and you said I was using double standards.. pffft…
<<<<"No one is trying to lower superman." >>>>
How is this lowering? With every character you have to take the bad with the good.. superman does get hit by these guys.. and hurt by them.. and NONE of them are even close to goku’s speed and power…. Again.. sorry you don’t like it..
<<<“Like when Wolverine has low showings that are glorified?”>>> how about when goku is killed by a planet buster and it’s ignored that he was killed by the higher power level rather than the size of the explosion?
<<<<“You sound EXACTLY like a Spiderman fan now. ”>>>>
So are you the pot or the kettle now?
<<<“it's more reliable than guestimates based off of lack of empirical knowledge.”>>>
Anything times two equals twice the amount of the original number.. well I’ve never tried it to all the positive numbers therefore I can’t prove that it applies to every positive number…. see where that logic falters? By ignoring the system that dbz runs on your also ignoring what these characters can do…
<<<“Which might level off and not have as strong a power increase as you think it does.”>>>
For someone that wants so much empirical proof you are certainly making a bold assumption right here.. there’s never been any evidence to support this… or anything even close…
<<<”Wishful thinking.”>>>
No it’s not… it’s logical..
<<<<“Except for the fact that What you said about Superman is actually true about Goku, and not the other way around.
Goku can destroy solar systems right? Vegeta's stronger than Goku right?
How come they failed to do that when they tried? ”>>>
Simple.. they never tried.. that’s where your logic falters again… if they ever DID try to take out the solar system, and fail you might have a point.. but as it stands now, you’ve got nothing but a misunderstanding on your part of a certain event that’s already been explained for you… you just keep ignoring the explaination..
<<<“Which still has yet to be shown exactly how that works, cause it doesn't seem to work out very well when those numbers aren't being called off after Freiza. . .”>>>
It was shown perfectly how they work when the numbers were being used… how do they fail to work afterwards? I mean rather than using misinterpreted events..
<<<“No, that's reasoning over empirical knowledge, because you're discarding ther fact that that would be true of anything. the statue of liberty is as big as my thumb, until I get close to it. . . so that's opbviously not empirical knowledge.”>>>
It is though… That’s the thing.. you can walk up to the statue to see that it’s bigger… after a closer inspection… through reasoning you deduce that the statue didn’t grow as you got closer to it, but rather that it only APPEARED to be smaller than it truly is at a distance.. Furthermore through reasoning you deduce that the statue is the same size when you walk away from it… It doesn’t shrink... It only appears smaller...
The difference between that and the sun is that you can’t walk towards the sun to get a better inspection on it.. through reasoning you have to infer that the sun is larger than it appears… empirical knowledge doesn’t always work to support a truthful answer…
Originally posted by dvampire
And here's Goku struggling to push a moutain apart, which isn't enough to stop Superman.http://anime.myfavoritegames.com/dragonball-z/Media/Video_Clips/DBZ-Video08.mov
And here's Vegeta trying to kill Goku with a spiky rock in the caves (not very durable 😕 ).
http://dragonballarena.gamesurf.it/english/media/clips/original_dbz.php
Supes wins. 😄
first off who says he's struggling?
he looks pissed off and he seems to be doing that just fine... also the density of the kai planet is far greater than that of earth... hence the whole z sword/training nonsense
i could just as easily post a picture of superman "struggling" to stop a crane hook and huffing from it's weight..... guess that's not enough to hurt goku...
and with the whole vegeta rock thing.. again... even cell was able to stand and take a destructo disk full yeild.. if you seriously think rocks were about to do anything to these guys other than crumble you're far beyond our help.....
goku's not the smartest guy in the world... he could very well have blown the rocks apart with energy alone... so why didn't he? CIS on his part.. the same CIS that makes him afraid of thwe rocks in the first place.. it's like he forgot he's taken more without budging...hmmmm
Originally posted by Creshosk
If by twusted you mean valid in what actual logical reasonable, non-fanboys use sort of logic, then yes it's ver ytwisted.Seriously though, DBZ side has no evidence and yet they win?
Sounds a hell of a lot like Spiderman in the Spiderman vs Wolverine threads. They have no evidence, refute actual evidence with poor logic and claims of PIS, and STILL think they win. . . But you should know that since you're usually arguing on the side with actual evidence, not what you THINK the character should be. . unlike you are doing now.
valid? so tell me cresh what makes his estimates of power levels any more valid than mine.. especially since it's pretty damned apparent I'm mote knowledgeable about this stuff than himself?...
Originally posted by jinzin
first off who says he's struggling?he looks pissed off and he seems to be doing that just fine... also the density of the kai planet is far greater than that of earth... hence the whole z sword/training nonsense
i could just as easily post a picture of superman "struggling" to stop a crane hook and huffing from it's weight..... guess that's not enough to hurt goku...
and with the whole vegeta rock thing.. again... even cell was able to stand and take a destructo disk full yeild.. if you seriously think rocks were about to do anything to these guys other than crumble you're far beyond our help.....
goku's not the smartest guy in the world... he could very well have blown the rocks apart with energy alone... so why didn't he? CIS on his part.. the same CIS that makes him afraid of thwe rocks in the first place.. it's like he forgot he's taken more without budging...hmmmm
He could have blown it apart, but he wanted to prove his strength, which is far lower than Superman's. Krillin is weak compared to Cell, and that doesn't change the fact, that Vegeta was trying to finish Goku off by pushing him to a spiky rock. 🙂
Originally posted by jinzin
valid? so tell me cresh what makes his estimates of power levels any more valid than mine.. especially since it's pretty damned apparent I'm mote knowledgeable about this stuff than himself?...
I'm still waiting for proof too. 😕 You havn't proven that Goku is faster, stronger, more durable, or have the stamina to match Superman at all. 🙂
This is going to blow up again, I can feel it... Any second now.... 😐
Let me just point out that, just because Vegeta attempted it, doesn't mean that it would have worked....
I mean after all, a guy who could theoretically destroy planets being killed by getting impaled on a rock is ludicrous beyoond beleif, Common sense would have dictated that....
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
This is going to blow up again, I can feel it... Any second now.... 😐Let me just point out that, just because Vegeta attempted it, doesn't mean that it would have worked....
I mean after all, a guy who could theoretically destroy planets being killed by getting impaled on a rock is ludicrous beyoond beleif, Common sense would have dictated that....
Except Vegeta is one the smartest fighters in DBZ, I don't think he whould randomly try something if he didn't think it whould give him a win. That rock whould have impaled through Goku if Vegeta was sucessful. 😕 Blowing up a planet or not, doesn't prove his durability. 🙂
I am sorry there no reason to debate with either side...you are stubborn and do dismiss everything being said.....although the Superman side indeed does have more evidence.....anyways I am done with this...I am relatively sure there is no way we can copare the two....but since both sides are totally convinced that their Chapion would win I guess I will jsut leave you fanboys alone......
Originally posted by Bardock42
I am sorry there no reason to debate with either side...you are stubborn and do dismiss everything being said.....although the Superman side indeed does have more evidence.....anyways I am done with this...I am relatively sure there is no way we can copare the two....but since both sides are totally convinced that their Chapion would win I guess I will jsut leave you fanboys alone......
I coulf of told you that. Like I said before that I thouth it was a good match but then I hear one punch and Superman wins arguement and everything that he does thats god like they love but when goku does something they say cis...so it's not cis for superman but it is for goku.
Originally posted by dvampire
Except Vegeta is one the smartest fighters in DBZ, I don't think he whould randomly try something if he didn't think it whould give him a win. That rock whould have impaled through Goku if Vegeta was sucessful. 😕 Blowing up a planet or not, doesn't prove his durability. 🙂
So when they use electricty on superman he falls to his knees...I guess they new what they were doing, and if they kept him in there he would of died.
Originally posted by jinzin
you didn't have proof.. you had more "hearsay evidence"..I asked you when, where, and whom supplied your "confirmed stats"..you didn't reply.. the fact that you think you're actually superior in some way because you chose to ignore the question is adbsurd..think about it.... you said it yourself...
<<<"500 000 was his base...he has for Stages each doubles">>> and we know he was easily 1 million at level 2... at level 3 he would be at 2 million.. and at level 4 he would be at 4 million... (lowest estimate)....
goku had to be at four million to even present a challenge to frieza in his final form.... he was using KIOKEN TIMES 20... that would easily put him up to 80 million.... and frieza was still beating him like a red headed stepchild... and they continued to get stronger and stronger even after that...
sorry "bud" but you've just been defeated by your own innacurate and twisted logic... or "proof" or whatever you're calling it these days...
OMG... are you really that ignorant? I already posted where I found the information and Bardock42 (WHo has been showing us Manga scans all week) and others have confirmed it as accurate. That includes people from both sides. Where the hell were you during all this? Not paying attention as usual? You have to read all of the posts before you reply to one, nimrod.
Those power levels are straight from Akira's mouth kid:
Freeza Saga
During Arrival at Namek
*Note this is not all at the same time. For example Vegeta is at 24,000 power level when he arrives, but by the time Gokou gets there Vegeta is much more powerful.
Gohan's power: 4,000
Kuririn's power: 3,000
Vegeta's power: 24,000
Nail's power: 42,000
Freezer's 1st form power: 530,000
Gokou's power (without completey powering up): 90,000
Goku vs. Freeza
Freeza (form 4 33.3%): 4,000,000
Freeza (form 4 50%): 6,000,000
Freeza (form 4 70%): 8,400,000
Freeza (form 4 100%): 12,000,000
Goku's Base Level: 300,000
Goku Kaioken x10: 3,000,000
Goku Kaioken x20: 6,000,000
Super Saiya-jin Goku: 15,000,000
So please, stfu.
Originally posted by TwisterGameX
So when they use electricty on superman he falls to his knees...I guess they new what they were doing, and if they kept him in there he would of died.
Did you not see the scan where Supes was in the upper atmosphere generating electricity in the form of a storm? Do you really think that someone who can nap in the sun is affected so drastically by electricity? Or are you reading twelve year old comics again?
Reply: omfg u have no comis!