Goku v. Superman

Started by Hit_and_Miss189 pages

Recent discoveries
In 2004 a cluster of black holes was detected, broadening our understanding of the distribution of black holes throughout our universe. This has led scientists' inferences of how many black holes are in our universe to be significantly revised. Due to these finds, it is believed that there are close to five fold the number of black holes than were previously predicted.

In July 2004 astronomers found a giant black hole, Q0906+6930, at the center of a distant galaxy in the Ursa Major constellation. The size and presumed age of the black hole has implications that may determine the age of the universe [4].

In November 2004 a team of astronomers reported the discovery of the first intermediate-mass black hole in our Galaxy, orbiting three light-years from Sagittarius A*. This medium black hole of 1,300 solar masses is within a cluster of seven stars, possibly the remnant of a massive star cluster that has been stripped down by the Galactic Centre (Nature News) (original article). This observation may add support to the idea that supermassive black holes grow by absorbing nearby smaller black holes and stars.

In February 2005, a blue giant star SDSS J090745.0+24507 was found to be leaving the Milky Way at twice the escape velocity (0.0022 of the speed of light). The path of the star can be traced back to the galactic core. The high velocity of this star supports the hypothesis of a super-massive black hole in the center of the galaxy.

Actual evidence.

Nope, still just speculation. 😛

They used to think there was a black hole right outside of our solar system, and this was what was causing the irregular orbit of Neptune since Pluto's gravity size couldn't accont for it. . . then they discovered Other transneptunian objects and alas, no black hole.

so they don't find one black hole.... others can't exist...

Anyways... That Black hole in the superman comics is based of the theory of black holes... Seeing as they Obviously exist in the marvel universe thats all that matters!

How does superman escape a double black hole which doesn't let light escape when hes traveling at only "at least lighspeed"??

Stop dodging the question and answer it this time cresh....

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
so they don't find one black hole.... others can't exist...
They've been wrong before, so until it is 100% positive, I'm going to be skeptical as usual. 🙂

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Anyways... That Black hole in the superman comics is based of the theory of black holes... Seeing as they Obviously exist in the marvel universe thats all that matters!
Do you even know who Superman is? Or was that a fruedian slip?

There are many theories involving black holes, including portals tied to white holes and the like. 😉

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
How does superman escape a double black hole which doesn't let light escape when hes traveling at only "at least lighspeed"??
Do you know what "at least light speed" is?

It's "not slower than light speed." "Double lightspeed" is "Not slower than light speed".

Light speed and up is "at least light speed". Slower than light speed is not "at least light speed".

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Stop dodging the question and answer it this time cresh....
Stop being dense and listen to the answers this time.

Unfortunately, gokus is a superior fighter. Superman double black hole garbage? Great. Whats he going to do, punch goku at double black hole strength? Becuase he can conjure up that sort of might instantly -- and gokus going to sit motionless as he is punched into oblivion? Sure. Why isint superman dominateing withinn his own universe? And oh, lets throw supermans eye lasers in the trash, goku has been dodgeing projectiles for eons. Goku fights in ways superman fantasizes about. I love superman, but realisticly, hes outclassed. Its wierd. Pre chrisis, post chrisis, Superman would have a hard time with trunks. Unfortunately, Goku would conquire Superman with moderate diffculty.
Why is this thread so long?

Originally posted by Creshosk
I should reward him for his intentional or unintentional ignorance, and refusal to comprehensivelty read what's being posted?

Yes, yes, good job on not knowing what at least means, and for not knowing what sarcasm is, and for lecturing someone on a typo when you yourself for flawed sentences that make you sound like a caveman. Bravo. Bravo, Encore encore. More hypocrisy! More blantent lack of knoweldge of English principles!

🙄


So you were being saracastic when you said Goku could fly before he met Tien. But yet you said you were proving me wrong. Hmmm. Once again you are contradicting yourself. Incompetence. Incompetence.

And for the record, Goku absorbed the dragonballs. Lets not disguss how many shapes he could bend superman into with this final act of godlieness.

Mr. C, you're post says if black holes don't exist then what are the blah blah blah. I suppose I have to use my black hole evidence.

The "surface" of a black hole is the so-called event horizon, an imaginary surface surrounding the mass of the black hole. Using the Gauss-Bonnet theorem, Stephen Hawking proved that the topology of the event horizon of a (four dimensional) black hole is a 2-sphere. At the event horizon, the escape velocity is equal to the speed of light. Thus, anything inside the event horizon, including a photon, is prevented from escaping across the event horizon by the extremely strong gravitational field. Particles from outside this region can fall in, cross the event horizon, and will never be able to leave.

According to classical general relativity, black holes can be entirely characterized according to three parameters: mass, angular momentum, and electric charge. This principle is summarized by the saying, coined by John Wheeler, "black holes have no hair".

Objects in a gravitational field experience a slowing down of time, called time dilation. This phenomenon has been verified experimentally in the Scout rocket experiment of 1976 [6], and is, for example, taken into account in the GPS system. Near the event horizon, the time dilation increases rapidly. From the point of view of an external observer, it takes an infinite amount of time for an object to approach the event horizon, at which point the light coming from it is infinitely red-shifted. To the distant observer, the object, falling slower and slower, approaches but never reaches the event horizon. The object itself might not even notice the point at which it crosses the event horizon, and will do so in a finite amount of proper time.

[edit]
The singularity
At the center of the black hole, well inside the event horizon, general relativity predicts a singularity, a place where the curvature of spacetime becomes infinite and gravitational forces become infinitely strong. Spacetime inside the event horizon is peculiar in that the singularity is in every observer's future, so all particles within the event horizon move inexorably towards it (Penrose and Hawking [7]). This means that there is a conceptual inaccuracy in the nonrelativistic concept of a black hole as originally proposed by John Michell in 1783. In Michell's theory, the escape velocity equals the speed of light, but it would still, for example, be theoretically possible to hoist an object out of a black hole using a rope. General relativity eliminates such loopholes, because once an object is inside the event horizon, its time-line contains an end-point to time itself, and no possible world-lines come back out through the event horizon.

It is expected that future refinements or generalizations of general relativity (in particular quantum gravity) will change what is thought about the nature of black hole interiors. Most theorists interpret the mathematical singularity of the equations as indicating that the current theory is not complete, and that new phenomena must come into play as one approaches the singularity. The question may be largely academic, as the cosmic censorship hypothesis asserts that there are no naked singularities in general relativity: Every singularity is hidden behind an event horizon and cannot be probed.

Another school of thought[8] holds that no singularity occurs, because of a bubble-like local inflation in the interior of the collapsing star. Radii stop converging as they approach the event horizon, are parallel at the horizon, and begin diverging in the interior. The solution resembles a wormhole (from the exterior to the interior) in a neighborhood of the horizon, with the horizon as the neck.

[edit]
Entering a black hole
The effects of a black hole's gravity as described by the Theory of Relativity cause a number of peculiar effects. An object approaching a simple Schwarzschild-type (non-rotating) black hole's center will appear to distant observers as having an increasingly slow descent as the object approaches the event horizon. This is because a photon takes an increasingly long time to escape from the pull of the black hole to allow the distant observer to gain information on the object's fate.

From the object's frame of reference, it will cross the event horizon and reach the singularity, or center of the black hole, all within a finite amount of time. Once the object crosses over the event horizon, light will no longer escape the black hole, and the object can no longer be observed outside of the black hole. As the object continues to approach the singularity, it will elongate, and the parts closest to the singularity will begin to red shift, until they finally become invisible. Nearing the singularity, the gradient of the gravitational field from head to foot will become considerable, will stretch and tear because of tidal forces: the parts closest to the singularity feel disproportionatly stronger gravitational force than those parts farther away. This process is known as spaghettification.

There are alot of disagreeable people that would put the range of DBZ with Goku being rated as a sub 1000PL character that was already super-sonic super-strong bullet proof and a martial artist doing things that on a MA level you only see charactrs like Karate Kid do to Mid-series PL 12 Mill "Detroy average planet by waving hand" Frieza all the way through the last couple universe breaking rated higher than their own creator gods several times over Sagas somewhere between Spiderman and Things strength

Because of that this topic is probably never going to end in a satisfying way

The only theories I read were about how you could or could not escape a black hole. Oh, I almost forgot....

PSSSST. If you were taking a spelling test on the computer a typo would be counted as spelling incorrectly.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Unfortunately, gokus is a superior fighter. Superman double black hole garbage? Great. Whats he going to do, punch goku at double black hole strength? Becuase he can conjure up that sort of might instantly --
Sure. . . And he'd take Goku's punches with double black hole durability.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
and gokus going to sit motionless as he is punched into oblivion? Sure.
Sure, moving as fast as Superman does Goku will be virtually sitting still. 😛

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Why isint superman dominateing withinn his own universe?
He pretty much is.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
And oh, lets throw supermans eye lasers in the trash, goku has been dodgeing projectiles for eons. Goku fights in ways superman fantasizes about.
Right. . . which is why he doesn't try to fight that way. . .

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
I love superman,
I love how people say this line, its as if too look objective? Most of the time its a lie though. . .

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
but realisticly, hes outclassed. Its wierd. Pre chrisis, post chrisis, Superman would have a hard time with trunks.
And that proves it. Pre crisis can do the time travel thing, by flying around the earth against the rotation at light speeds. . . (ridiculous, but then you also have those ghosts that gotenks had. . . )he can go back in time to when Goku was a kid and. . .

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Unfortunately, Goku would conquire Superman with moderate diffculty.
Doubtful.Goku couldn't apply more force than a double black hole. 😛

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Why is this thread so long?
Because of stupid posts like this one I just reponded to.

Originally posted by theobvious
Mr. C, you're post says if black holes don't exist then what are the blah blah blah. I suppose I have to use my black hole evidence.

The "surface" of a black hole is the so-called event horizon, an imaginary surface surrounding the mass of the black hole. Using the Gauss-Bonnet theorem, Stephen Hawking proved that the topology of the event horizon of a (four dimensional) black hole is a 2-sphere. At the event horizon, the escape velocity is equal to the speed of light. Thus, anything inside the event horizon, including a photon, is prevented from escaping across the event horizon by the extremely strong gravitational field. Particles from outside this region can fall in, cross the event horizon, and will never be able to leave.

According to classical general relativity, black holes can be entirely characterized according to three parameters: mass, angular momentum, and electric charge. This principle is summarized by the saying, coined by John Wheeler, "black holes have no hair".

Objects in a gravitational field experience a slowing down of time, called time dilation. This phenomenon has been verified experimentally in the Scout rocket experiment of 1976 [6], and is, for example, taken into account in the GPS system. Near the event horizon, the time dilation increases rapidly. From the point of view of an external observer, it takes an infinite amount of time for an object to approach the event horizon, at which point the light coming from it is infinitely red-shifted. To the distant observer, the object, falling slower and slower, approaches but never reaches the event horizon. The object itself might not even notice the point at which it crosses the event horizon, and will do so in a finite amount of proper time.

[edit]
The singularity
At the center of the black hole, well inside the event horizon, general relativity predicts a singularity, a place where the curvature of spacetime becomes infinite and gravitational forces become infinitely strong. Spacetime inside the event horizon is peculiar in that the singularity is in every observer's future, so all particles within the event horizon move inexorably towards it (Penrose and Hawking [7]). This means that there is a conceptual inaccuracy in the nonrelativistic concept of a black hole as originally proposed by John Michell in 1783. In Michell's theory, the escape velocity equals the speed of light, but it would still, for example, be theoretically possible to hoist an object out of a black hole using a rope. General relativity eliminates such loopholes, because once an object is inside the event horizon, its time-line contains an end-point to time itself, and no possible world-lines come back out through the event horizon.

It is expected that future refinements or generalizations of general relativity (in particular quantum gravity) will change what is thought about the nature of black hole interiors. Most theorists interpret the mathematical singularity of the equations as indicating that the current theory is not complete, and that new phenomena must come into play as one approaches the singularity. The question may be largely academic, as the cosmic censorship hypothesis asserts that there are no naked singularities in general relativity: Every singularity is hidden behind an event horizon and cannot be probed.

Another school of thought[8] holds that no singularity occurs, because of a bubble-like local inflation in the interior of the collapsing star. Radii stop converging as they approach the event horizon, are parallel at the horizon, and begin diverging in the interior. The solution resembles a wormhole (from the exterior to the interior) in a neighborhood of the horizon, with the horizon as the neck.

[edit]
Entering a black hole
The effects of a black hole's gravity as described by the Theory of Relativity cause a number of peculiar effects. An object approaching a simple Schwarzschild-type (non-rotating) black hole's center will appear to distant observers as having an increasingly slow descent as the object approaches the event horizon. This is because a photon takes an increasingly long time to escape from the pull of the black hole to allow the distant observer to gain information on the object's fate.

From the object's frame of reference, it will cross the event horizon and reach the singularity, or center of the black hole, all within a finite amount of time. Once the object crosses over the event horizon, light will no longer escape the black hole, and the object can no longer be observed outside of the black hole. As the object continues to approach the singularity, it will elongate, and the parts closest to the singularity will begin to red shift, until they finally become invisible. Nearing the singularity, the gradient of the gravitational field from head to foot will become considerable, will stretch and tear because of tidal forces: the parts closest to the singularity feel disproportionatly stronger gravitational force than those parts farther away. This process is known as spaghettification.

That's the theory, not the proof. Oh, and that's from wikipedia or one of the rippedoff-from-wikipedia sites, isn't it? 😉

Originally posted by theobvious
The only theories I read were about how you could or could not escape a black hole. Oh, I almost forgot....

PSSSST. If you were taking a spelling test on the computer a typo would be counted as spelling incorrectly.

Well, good thing I'm not taking a typing test, huh?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Sure. . . And he'd take Goku's punches with double black hole durability.

Sure, moving as fast as Superman does Goku will be virtually sitting still. 😛

He pretty much is.

Right. . . which is why he doesn't try to fight that way. . .

I love how people say this line, its as if too look objective? Most of the time its a lie though. . .

And that proves it. Pre crisis can do the time travel thing, by flying around the earth against the rotation at light speeds. . . (ridiculous, but then you also have those ghosts that gotenks had. . . )he can go back in time to when Goku was a kid and. . .

Doubtful.Goku couldn't apply more force than a double black hole. 😛

Because of stupid posts like this one I just reponded to.

Lol, are you kidding? Ok.
Moving as fast as superman is? Goku will be virtually sitting still? Sure, because goku cannot detect superman when he is traveling at light speed. Not to mention, Superman will be traveling at light speed in the same effect that gokus after image produces. You could call it short range teleportation. Sounds just as good as light speed to me. UNless of course superman is flying millions of miles away from goku, then coming back to him. Great tactic.

Takeing gokus punches with double black hole durability? Thats fine, goku has double black hole punishment to donate.

And superman time traveling back to when goku was a kid? Thats funny. Goku could literally wish superman out of existance. Its kinda wierd what absorbing dragonballs can do to your abilities. This double black hole thing is really funny. But unfortunatley, its the only defense superman has, and its a weak one at that. Superman can squeeze all the double black holes he wants in a non-existant state thanks to goku. But i guess teleportation is slower than light speed. Superman could literally puunch goku for eons. Unphazed, goku becomes aroused and somehow bored at the same time. Lets see. So what does superman have again? Oh yeah, super strength, and, the ability to travel at light speed?
And what can goku do? Match his strength. After image. And finally, if it really came down to it, wish superman a nice life in another non-reality. Unfortunate. Superman just doesnt have what it takes. Sorry. He can give hulk a run for his money though!

This thread is amazing.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Lol, are you kidding? Ok.
Moving as fast as superman is? Goku will be virtually sitting still? Sure, because goku cannot detect superman when he is traveling at light speed. Not to mention, Superman will be traveling at light speed in the same effect that gokus after image produces. You could call it short range teleportation. Sounds just as good as light speed to me. UNless of course superman is flying millions of miles away from goku, then coming back to him. Great tactic.
Light speed is faster than speed of thought. It'd be a case of knowing something but being unable to do something about it. even if he knew or could detect him.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Takeing gokus punches with double black hole durability? Thats fine, goku has double black hole punishment to donate.
Prove it. 🙂

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
And superman time traveling back to when goku was a kid? Thats funny. Goku could literally wish superman out of existance.
I don't hold GT as canon myself.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Its kinda wierd what absorbing dragonballs can do to your abilities. [/qutoe] sure if it's sloppy non-canon writing.

[QUOTE=4970967]Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
This double black hole thing is really funny. But unfortunatley, its the only defense superman has, and its a weak one at that. Superman can squeeze all the double black holes he wants in a non-existant state thanks to goku. But i guess teleportation is slower than light speed. Superman could literally puunch goku for eons. Unphazed, goku becomes aroused and somehow bored at the same time. Lets see. So what does superman have again? Oh yeah, super strength, and, the ability to travel at light speed?
And what can goku do? Match his strength. After image. And finally, if it really came down to it, wish superman a nice life in another non-reality. Unfortunate. Superman just doesnt have what it takes. Sorry. He can give hulk a run for his money though!

This thread is amazing.

Yup with amazingly stupid posts like this one I just responded to. 🙂

Originally posted by Creshosk
Light speed is faster than speed of thought. It'd be a case of knowing something but being unable to do something about it. even if he knew or could detect him.

Prove it. 🙂

I don't hold GT as canon myself.

Yup with amazingly stupid posts like this one I just responded to. 🙂

Ah. Perfect. So it would be like knowing something but not being able to do something about it? That almost works, except it doesnt apply to this situation. Teleportation is faster than light speed. Goku would be moving in this manner, not to mention the fact that goku would unquestinably know supermans movements as he is makeing them. It would be foolish to think otherwise. So even in this instance, he would be able to do something about it. And as far as double black hole punishment? Its Proove it? Lol. Absorbtion of the dragonballs? OH, you dont hold GT as canon yourself? LOL! I could say the same about this double black hole trash, except for the fact that even with it, superman unfortunaltey, still dosent stand a chance.

Your argument has grown Considerably weaker. Lets put more on the table. Supermans fighting ability alone is eons behind gokus. Superman is an inferior fighter. Believeing otherwise is also unreasonable. Goku has been dodgeing, countering, and crippling people on supermans level, even before turning supersayin. Dodgeing attacks at speeds superman is only capable of in his finest hour. When Sayins fight,

galaxies colapse.

When superman fights. Fig trees sway a little. Superman litreally could not hit goku, in his wildest dreams, darkest fantasy, finest moment. Supermans body does not understand, cannont comprenhend a technique such as the warp kamehameha. Dodgeing techniques at the speed of thought? Unfortunatley, this is impossible for superman to perform. Goku blasting superman with his strongest warp kamehameha wouldent scratch gokus stamina. But it would probably atomize superman. So basicly, it comes down to this.

Superman is incapable of defeating goku. As a Supersayin, as a pre supersayin. Superman would flake out in combat with trunks, vegitta. Funk, even piccollo. But Goku? In his strongest hour? Seriously, get this trash out of my face.

Your right about goku being the better fighter.

Though I have yet to see a galaxy collapes... Planets yes, Galaxcies... erm.....

No Mr. Creshosk it isn't a theory. That's the proven part. Now if you were being sarcastic when you said Goku could fly before he met Tien. Why did you say you were proving me wrong? Now listen this time in the earlier parts of this thread you said Superman's top speed was lightspeed. You weren't being sarcastic about that though were you? Incompetence Incompetence

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Ah. Perfect. So it would be like knowing something but not being able to do something about it? That almost works, except it doesnt apply to this situation. Teleportation is faster than light speed. Goku would be moving in this manner, not to mention the fact that goku would unquestinably know supermans movements as he is makeing them. It would be foolish to think otherwise.
So he has precog? He can dodge people moving at the speed of light?

I doubt it.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
So even in this instance, he [B]would be able to do something about it.[/b]
What? Dodge?

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
And as far as double black hole punishment? Its Proove it? Lol. Absorbtion of the dragonballs? OH, you dont hold GT as canon yourself? LOL! I could say the same about this double black hole trash,
Double black hole is canon as his creator company had him do it.

GT is not since Akira Toriyama didn't work on it.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
except for the fact that even with it, superman unfortunaltey, still dosent stand a chance.
You still haven't proven that Goku can put out damage stronger than double black holes. 🙂

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Your argument has grown Considerably weaker. Lets put more on the table. Supermans fighting ability alone is eons behind gokus.
Doesn't matter. his speed strength durability etc. etc. is lightyears beyond Goku. So while Goku will have technical finese the speed and strength gaps will make it like Goku is moving in slow motion, if not standing still.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Superman is an inferior fighter. But superior physically, with such a gap that it doesn't matter.

[QUOTE=4972391]Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
[B] Believeing otherwise is also unreasonable. Goku has been dodgeing, countering, and crippling people on supermans level,

Below Superman's level.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
even before turning supersayin.
Nope.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Dodgeing attacks at speeds superman is only capable of in his finest hour.
Nope.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
When Sayins fight,

[B]galaxies colapse. [/b]

Funny, didn't even look like Earth was destroyed when Maijin Vegeta fought Goku. . . OR even when SS3 Goku fought Buu. . .

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
When superman fights. Fig trees sway a little. Superman litreally could not [B]hit goku, in his wildest dreams,[/b]
Sure he could. You still haven't proven Goku's speed is high enough.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
darkest fantasy, finest moment. Supermans body does not understand, cannont comprenhend a technique such as the warp kamehameha.
Big whoop. He IT's and then Kamehamehas. . an attack which has not destroyed a planet, and Superman has taken Planet busting shots.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Dodgeing techniques at the speed of thought? Unfortunatley, this is impossible for superman to perform.[quote] You need to read more superman comics
http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/9926/supermanfast1xt2iv.jpg

[QUOTE=4972391]Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Goku blasting superman with his strongest warp kamehameha wouldent scratch gokus stamina.

Or Superman. 🙂

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
But it would probably atomize superman.
Nah, he's taken planet busting shots. something that the WK is not. . .

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
So basicly, it comes down to this.

[B]Superman is incapable of defeating goku.

Superman is stronger, faster and far more durable. Superman beats Goku with relative ease.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
As a Supersayin, as a pre supersayin. Superman would flake out in combat with trunks, vegitta. Funk, even piccollo. But Goku? In his strongest hour? Seriously, get this trash out of my face.
And you once again prove how stupid your posts are. 🙂

Originally posted by theobvious
No Mr. Creshosk it isn't a theory.
It's not proven. 😛

Originally posted by theobvious
That's the proven part.
No, that's the theory.

Originally posted by theobvious
Now if you were being sarcastic when you said Goku could fly before he met Tien. Why did you say you were proving me wrong?
Because genius, you said it was in his DNA. If that were true he would, like Superman fly before he learned a techinique that allows him to fly.

Originally posted by theobvious
Now listen this time in the earlier parts of this thread you said Superman's top speed was lightspeed.
Nope. Never said it was his top speed. 😛

Originally posted by theobvious
You weren't being sarcastic about that though were you?
Nope, also didn't say that was his top speed.

In fact I've never said what his top speed was, just speeds that he can do. 🙂

Originally posted by theobvious
Incompetence Incompetence
Yes you are. 🙂 You are the embodiment of it. 😉