Originally posted by h1a8Thanos is more powerful than the Surfer and him winning was due to this fact not that he was lucky enough to string together some make believe combo which you deem to be the determining factor.
There is a scan showing Thanos utilizing the combo to ko to perfection on Surfer.
Have any examples of Superman doing such a thing to someone on Superman's level?
Originally posted by h1a8
Defeat doesn't have to mean ko or death in Theory. For example, if I can trap someone forever then to me they are defeated. Isn't this is what death is anyway? Your spirit leaves the body (but still lives) but is bfr in another place forever.If Im a superhero and I bfr a dangerous enemy to another dimension where they can't escape then I would consider that as defeating the enemy. As long as they can't achieve their goals and I stop them cold.
Catching criminals and taking them to jail is defeating them. They are bfr to jail.
Just, no, dude.
The criminals aren't bfr'd to jail, man! First they get beat up! If you beat someone up, you defeated them. If you just throw them away, and you don't follow to stomp on them, it's basically a forfeit. A BFR means there's no fight. No fight. No winner.
Quick question:
WHO HERE WOULD SAY WWHULK DEFEATED JUGGERNAUT!?
... I think I made my point. Actually, it really seems to depend on the characters if people here are gonna count BFR as a victory. Me, personally, I never count BFR as a victory. It's a win, but not a victory. A BFR avoids the damn fight. If raging Savage Hulk and Superman were in a 10x10foot adamantium chamber, Savage Hulk would rip Superman apart. Nowhere to go, nowhere to BFR to. Not enough space for speed to mean sh*t. Digressing...
Another question:
WHO HERE WOULD SAY GREEN LANTERN COULD DEFEAT DOOMSDAY BY BFR TO SPACE?
A little different, now, isn't it. Well all know, face to face, Doomsday would shred Green Lantern into pieces. Do we still say Green Lantern "defeated" Doomsday?
A fight is engaging the other dude in combat. And hitting him, hard, until he drops like a sack of brake pads and hits his head on the table. That's a sure-fire way to know you're the victor. But, if he can keep fighting but just can't reach you because the stairs are on fire and the elevator's not running, you haven't won, even if you're the one that threw him out the window. If he can keep fighting, it's not over. Oh, but 120 seconds pass, so you're the glorious victor?
Are we saying all-out Superman versus weakend Thor, one on one, is defeated if Thor BFR's Supes to a different dimension right off the bat?
Anyway, you get my point. BFR is a double-forfeit, really. I wouldn't say "draw" because that kinda sounds like both fighters at least gave each other an even number of a bunch of good shots. But I don't even think a samurai would commit seppuku after a measely BFR.
Originally posted by Master CourtI understand your point about a fight. It's just we are using a different understanding of winning. If winning means to stop a threat by any means necessary then bfr is a win. If winning means to ko, kill a foe, or render them handicap then bfr wouldn't be a win.
Just, no, dude.The criminals aren't bfr'd to jail, man! First they get beat up! If you beat someone up, you defeated them. If you just throw them away, and you don't follow to stomp on them, it's basically a forfeit. A BFR means there's no fight. No fight. No winner.
Quick question:
WHO HERE WOULD SAY WWHULK DEFEATED JUGGERNAUT!?
... I think I made my point. Actually, it really seems to depend on the characters if people here are gonna count BFR as a victory. Me, personally, I never count BFR as a victory. It's a win, but not a victory. A BFR avoids the damn fight. If raging Savage Hulk and Superman were in a 10x10foot adamantium chamber, Savage Hulk would rip Superman apart. Nowhere to go, nowhere to BFR to. Not enough space for speed to mean sh*t. Digressing...
Another question:
WHO HERE WOULD SAY GREEN LANTERN COULD DEFEAT DOOMSDAY BY BFR TO SPACE?
A little different, now, isn't it. Well all know, face to face, Doomsday would shred Green Lantern into pieces. Do we still say Green Lantern "defeated" Doomsday?
A fight is engaging the other dude in combat. And hitting him, hard, until he drops like a sack of brake pads and hits his head on the table. That's a sure-fire way to know you're the victor. But, if he can keep fighting but just can't reach you because the stairs are on fire and the elevator's not running, you haven't won, even if you're the one that threw him out the window. If he can keep fighting, it's not over. Oh, but 120 seconds pass, so you're the glorious victor?
Are we saying all-out Superman versus weakend Thor, one on one, is defeated if Thor BFR's Supes to a different dimension right off the bat?
Anyway, you get my point. BFR is a double-forfeit, really. I wouldn't say "draw" because that kinda sounds like both fighters at least gave each other an even number of a bunch of good shots. But I don't even think a samurai would commit seppuku after a measely BFR.
I disagree that Superman can't beat Hulk without bfr. Hulk can and has been koed many many times. This is a no brainer. Superman can not only hit Hulk with more force than was used to ko him in the past so many times but Superman can hit him far more times due to superior speed. In an unbreakable arena the combo to ko is definitely a reality. And lastly Hulk could never hit Superman even if Superman refused to attack.
Thor can't bfr Superman even if it is in his character. Superman fighting to his best ability won't get touched by Thor, ever.
But I understand you. That is why the OP has the option of saying 'no bfr' or 'fight to ko/death'.
^ That isn't even remotely what happened in that fight when I read it, again from my Revamped Thor Respect Thread:
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Also, keep in mind, between the fourth and fifth scan, Hulk had been fighting monsters in that dimension for hours before confronting Thor again.
====
[b]Hulk
====Thor vs Savage Hulk in a past fight, from Incredible Hulk Annual #25:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsHulk42HulkAnnual25.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsHulk43.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsHulk44.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsHulk45.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsHulk46.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsHulk47.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsHulk48.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsHulk49.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsHulk50.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsHulk51.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsHulk52.jpg[/B]
Originally posted by h1a8
I understand your point about a fight. It's just we are using a different understanding of winning. If winning means to stop a threat by any means necessary then bfr is a win. If winning means to ko, kill a foe, or render them handicap then bfr wouldn't be a win.I disagree that Superman can't beat Hulk without bfr. Hulk can and has been koed many many times. This is a no brainer. Superman can not only hit Hulk with more force than was used to ko him in the past so many times but Superman can hit him far more times due to superior speed. In an unbreakable arena the combo to ko is definitely a reality. And lastly Hulk could never hit Superman even if Superman refused to attack.
Thor can't bfr Superman even if it is in his character. Superman fighting to his best ability won't get touched by Thor, ever.
But I understand you. That is why the OP has the option of saying 'no bfr' or 'fight to ko/death'.
I defnitely did not say Superman can't beat Hulk without BFR.
I said, in a 10x10foot adamantium cage, where Superman has no room to maneuver and is forced into a fist fight, Hulk would rip him apart.
And WHAT THE F*CK!? You actually think Superman is stronger than Gladiator, Thor, Sentry, and all the other high-end top-tiers that Hulk has fought and beaten/stalemated over the years? Hulk's taken the hardest hit Thor can muster from Mjolnir, in the face, and Hulk took it in stride. Can you prove Superman is stronger than everyone Hulk has ever faced? You can't just say it. You have to prove it. Hercules held up the Earth, and he's never KO'd Hulk. Thor has lifted things that are heavier than Earth, and his hardest shots are just normal shots to Hulk. Gladiator never holds back, and intended to kill Hulk. He couldn't do it. Sentry stalemated Galactus, and went all out against WWHulk. He couldn't beat him.
Can you prove Superman is stronger than any of them? I believe he is, but not all of them.
Besides that, we have no idea how much force anyone's ever used to KO Hulk. I mean, the fanboys and haters aside, who would cream their jeans if a scan of Ant-Man punching Hulk could be twisted enough to count as a KO, can talk sh*t about lots of fights. But show me a scan of Hulk indisputably being KO'd by a solid punch.
And true, Hulk couldn't hit Superman if Superman isn't trying to hit him. But if Superman tried that combo to KO crap, Hulk would catch him, and f*ck him. Anyone that is a fan of both Superman and Hulk, and knows their powers and history well enough, should come to the conclusion that all Superman has to do is fight smart and he could take 10/10 against Hulk. But if Superman tries to brawl, Hulk takes that fight. The combo to KO doesn't just require speed, it requires the other person to not be able to react fast enough to catch you, either with the Hulk-Grip or a b*tch smack.
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Wow, so the Hulk has managed to build up even more strength, durability and healing from hours of rage against lesser opponents. More kudos to Thor.
Except lesser enemies don't piss Hulk off that much. He's not gonna go batsh*t if he just has to deck someone a couple times. It's the people that give him trouble that enrage him into amping.
Originally posted by iceman24567False. Please read the comic before you post this kinda of nonsense.
Well Hulk can be beaten in a couple different ways by Thor the same can't be said about Hulk. He punches him but when Thor uses his abilities he can completely overpowers hulk like in the Hulk 2001 annual
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Well you must not have read it right 😐. Using his abilities Thor was too much for Hulk 😱
^ That isn't even remotely what happened in that fight when I read it, again from my Revamped Thor Respect Thread:
Also, keep in mind, between the fourth and fifth scan, Hulk had been fighting monsters in that dimension for hours before confronting Thor again.
Originally posted by Kris BlazeThen theirs this. Hulk was also more angry after realizing he wouldn't be at piece in the new place Thor brought him. Thor could have easily just bfred his ass too instead of dazing him with lightning twice.
Wow, so the Hulk has managed to build up even more strength, durability and healing from hours of rage against lesser opponents. More kudos to Thor.
I reread the whole book when i made that comment i admit i was still a little high thats why i retracted my statement. Heres what i should have said Thor can and will overpower Hulk when he utilizes his abilities. Thor could have put the Hulk out after the first lightning strike in my opinion maybe the respect he has for Hulk didn't allow him to he commented on them being on the Avengers together but it's pure speculation. The second fight proves my point lightning strike then the KO.
