Originally posted by Soujaboy
See this is why I like debating with you, you make since and you challenge me.Yes his mind was different and already mutated but did that give him unlimited rage? If so than he wouldn't even need to become the Hulk do to the massive overdose of adrenalin. Bruce Banner himself would be "The Hulk" without the Hulk.
thats not the problem I have with hulk. It's the fact that some Hulk fans blow his powers totally out of proportion, thus this is why I hate the Hulk so.
The Gamma mutated his body into a shapeshifter, but he's had the personalities latent and repressed in his head for decades. He's spend so long pushing that rage back and back that it's gained a sentience, and will of it's own. Rage it all it is, rage and power. That is the Hulk, and that's why I have no reason beliveing that he can gain unlimited rage. Still the Hulk is Banner, and banner is the Hulk because they are teh same person, just apparently opposites, Banner who represses and compresses his emotion and self, and teh Hulk who expresses himself and amplifies his rage beyond anything else. He's even said that he can get as angry as he wanted fighting the enhanced Abomination. "You can get 10 times as strong and Hulk will get 10 times as angry!!" That is how he sees himself, that is all he is, so why shouldn't be be able to have an unlimited range of Rage, Strength, and Durability, since they all are interwoven.
As I mentioned earlier, with he durability increase his body will not HAVE that upper limit as it keeps going up along with everything else. His body gets built up to handle his own strength as it increases.
His healing factor is also tied into that, as the angrier he is the quicker he heals, as evidenced after the Secret War when the Savage heals in an instant the break in Banner-Hulk's leg. Thus the angrier he is the more he can heal.
He can be overloaded by a vast enough force applied fast enough to be faster than his responding increase, but not many are able to produce that so he is written often below what he is capable of like Superman is. That is for the reason of writing a better story, hense PIS. That's why low showings don't really count for anyone, not just the Hulk.
You can say that Thor's previous losses to Hulk are low showings, but he still stood up to the Hulk and didn't get easily crushed so I'm more than inclined to disagree seeing the people he's able to manhandle. Agreed he's not using his abilities to their utmost, but the Hulk is a walking challenge to any person who bases their existance in thier Strength and fighting prowess. That's a big reason why Herc, Thing, Thor, and pretty much any other high-end brick go out of their way to get into slug-outs with the Hulk, though it's not the only reason of course.
Anyway that's enough for now. I hope I've been able to enlighten you 😉
Originally posted by Soujaboy
Here Accel an Marvel produced handbook from 2001 that proves most of your statements wrong.The Hulk possesses the capacity for [B]nearly limitless physical
strength. The gamma radiation that mutated the Hulk's body fortified his cellular structure and added, from some as yet unknown source, over 800 pounds of bone marrow and tissue to his body.Previously, this mutation was not a stable one. The Hulk would periodically revert o the human form of Bruce Banner, losing the extra mass and energy to the same as yet unknown source from which he derived it. The process by which Banner transformed into the Hulk had a chemical catalyst, adrenalinc. As in normal humans, Banner's adrenal medulla secrets large amounts of adrenaline in times of fear, range, or stress, which hormonally stimulates the heartbeat rate, raises blood-sugar levels, and inhibits sensations of fatigue. Whereas this secretion simply heightens normal physical abilities in normal human beings, in Banner's case it triggered the complex chemical/ extra-physical process that transformed him into the Hulk. The total transformation took from 25 seconds to as long as 5 minutes, depending on the initial adrenaline surge which is determined by the original, external stimulus. Soon after the transformation, the amount of adrenaline in the Hulk would return to more normal, reduced levels. However, since Dr. Leonard Samson separated the Hulk and Banner into two discrete beings, Banner remains in human form and the Hulk remains in his superhuman mutated one.
In times of stress the Hulk's adrenaline level escalates, causing a corresponding escalation in strength. This is not accompanied by an additional gain in mass, but does appear to promote increased levels of energy efficiency. To date the Hulk has never apparently been provoked into demonstrating a maximum output of strength; hence, its upper limit remains a mystery.
In addition to great strength, the Hulk's body possesses a high degree of resistance to injury, pain, and disease. The Hulk's skin is capable of withstanding great heat without blistering (up to 3,000° Fahrenheit), great cold without freezing (down to -190° F), and great impacts (he can survive direct hits by field artillery cannon shells). It is possible to injure him: he could not, for example, survive a near-hit with a nuclear warhead. The Hulk's highly efficient physiology renders him immune to all terrestrial disease.
The Hulk can use his superhumanly strong leg muscles to leap great distances. The Hulk has been known to cover 3 miles in a single bound.
The Hulk has two powers apparently not related to his physical attributes, he can see astral forms, and he as a seemingly mystical homing ability that enables him to locate the area in New Mexico where he first became the Hulk. The nature of these abilities is not yet known.
Abilities: Dr. Bruce Banner is a genius in nuclear physics. On the other hand, the Hulk has low intelligence, comparable to that of a small child, although he has an undeniable cunning that aids him in battle. When Banner and the Hulk were the same being, and Banner was in the Hulk's form, Banner's consciousness was buried within the Hulk's, and could influence the Hulk's behavior only to a very limited extent. [/B]
This is exactly the reason CBR and SHC don't allow handbooks as valid evidence. They ALWAYS condtradict each other if you go over enough of them and they are invalidated about 3 months after they are published at the outside.
Originally posted by Accel
I posted other pics to show why it shouldn't have happened that way, but for some reason you just choose to go with that one moment that goes against continuity.See, this is why i posted scans of Juggernaut being hurt physically, because it shows that every character has inconsistencies that go against their usual showings. If we see Juggernaut be hurt physically and even knocked out physically, should we just take it as proof that it can happen? According to your logic, we should.
If we actually used reasoning, however, we'd know that Juggernaut shouldn't be hurt physically and we shouldn't use those moments as proof. Why? Because it goes against his consistent showings.
The same applies to Hulk healing from just about any thing and then all of a sudden being killed by being impaled. it just goes against his consistent showings.
Yes, his strength amping is from a mixture of emotions, such as rage and drive. I didn't say rage had nothing to do with it, just that he wasn't completely limited to it (and he's not).
Yes, it said that, but you need to understand that that doesn't mean Hulk can't become more durable. In fact, I showed you scans of Hulk becoming more durable.
At least I'm not being biased against characters I don't like.
I showed you the inside of Bruce's mind and showed you scans of Marvel themselves stating that Hulk's rage is unlimited, but for some reason you choose to ignore what Marvel says and believe what you want to believe.
The fight lasted for hours, you really don't know what happened in the time period that Thor killed thing and Hulk. You just saw Hulk dead with a tree in his gut decided that it was PIS. You don't know what happened so why speculate?
Hulk strength is limited to his emotional stress. When did focus which you said is how Hulk increaser his strength become a part of emotional stress?
Did it say that he could become more durable? no, so how can you just assume he can?
Know I believe what I see, and I haven't seen Savage Hulk's rage be claimed unlimited.
Originally posted by Soujaboy
Here Accel an Marvel produced handbook from 2001 that proves most of your statements wrong.The Hulk possesses the capacity for [B]nearly limitless physical
strength. The gamma radiation that mutated the Hulk's body fortified his cellular structure and added, from some as yet unknown source, over 800 pounds of bone marrow and tissue to his body.Previously, this mutation was not a stable one. The Hulk would periodically revert o the human form of Bruce Banner, losing the extra mass and energy to the same as yet unknown source from which he derived it. The process by which Banner transformed into the Hulk had a chemical catalyst, adrenalinc. As in normal humans, Banner's adrenal medulla secrets large amounts of adrenaline in times of fear, range, or stress, which hormonally stimulates the heartbeat rate, raises blood-sugar levels, and inhibits sensations of fatigue. Whereas this secretion simply heightens normal physical abilities in normal human beings, in Banner's case it triggered the complex chemical/ extra-physical process that transformed him into the Hulk. The total transformation took from 25 seconds to as long as 5 minutes, depending on the initial adrenaline surge which is determined by the original, external stimulus. Soon after the transformation, the amount of adrenaline in the Hulk would return to more normal, reduced levels. However, since Dr. Leonard Samson separated the Hulk and Banner into two discrete beings, Banner remains in human form and the Hulk remains in his superhuman mutated one.
In times of stress the Hulk's adrenaline level escalates, causing a corresponding escalation in strength. This is not accompanied by an additional gain in mass, but does appear to promote increased levels of energy efficiency. To date the Hulk has never apparently been provoked into demonstrating a maximum output of strength; hence, its upper limit remains a mystery.
In addition to great strength, the Hulk's body possesses a high degree of resistance to injury, pain, and disease. The Hulk's skin is capable of withstanding great heat without blistering (up to 3,000° Fahrenheit), great cold without freezing (down to -190° F), and great impacts (he can survive direct hits by field artillery cannon shells). It is possible to injure him: he could not, for example, survive a near-hit with a nuclear warhead. The Hulk's highly efficient physiology renders him immune to all terrestrial disease.
The Hulk can use his superhumanly strong leg muscles to leap great distances. The Hulk has been known to cover 3 miles in a single bound.
The Hulk has two powers apparently not related to his physical attributes, he can see astral forms, and he as a seemingly mystical homing ability that enables him to locate the area in New Mexico where he first became the Hulk. The nature of these abilities is not yet known.
Abilities: Dr. Bruce Banner is a genius in nuclear physics. On the other hand, the Hulk has low intelligence, comparable to that of a small child, although he has an undeniable cunning that aids him in battle. When Banner and the Hulk were the same being, and Banner was in the Hulk's form, Banner's consciousness was buried within the Hulk's, and could influence the Hulk's behavior only to a very limited extent. [/B]
Originally posted by DEVILHULK
Durability[b]High Evolutionary was able to knock the wind out of an augmented Hercules. But the Hulk…
A high-megaton nuclear explosion.
http://img78.exs.cx/img78/4306/nuke61ig.jpgEven in the early days, the Hulk was said capable of surviving anything short of nuclear attacks.
http://img74.exs.cx/img74/9348/durability8lx.jpgThe Hulk survives-- unharmed and without being kayoed-- a ground zero nuclear detonation that is reportedly powerful enough to "consume" Sidney, Australia:
http://img154.exs.cx/img154/3918/cobaltman10pz.jpg
http://img143.exs.cx/img143/3475/cobaltman22jn.jpgThe Hulk survives ground zero of a near-nuclear attack:
http://img146.exs.cx/img146/6782/nearnuclear4mt.jpg
http://img146.exs.cx/img146/7186/nearnuclear26ka.jpgAnother ground zero nuclear detonation. The Hulk says he "tried" to get to a Pantheon bunker before detonation. Guess he failed.
http://img84.exs.cx/img84/3118/nuke54wz.jpg
http://img11.echo.cx/img11/489/durabilitynuke4a8sf.jpgDr. Doom detonates a gamma bomb strapped to the Hulk's back but the Hulk returns to Castle Doom unharmed:
http://img163.echo.cx/img163/5664/durabilitynuke17yq.jpg
http://img163.echo.cx/img163/6548/durabilitynuke1a3ti.jpgAnother ground zero nuclear detonation:
http://img39.exs.cx/img39/8373/durabilitynuke10a9vp.jpg
http://img39.exs.cx/img39/7105/durabilitynuke10b9la.jpgHulk smothers a miniature gamma bomb.
http://img60.echo.cx/img60/7139/durabilityminigbomb1bn.jpgThe Hulk survives one of Banner's deadliest inventions-- The Orion Missile!
http://img96.exs.cx/img96/1466/orion12et.jpgAnd again he survives the Orion Missile... at ground zero!
http://img96.exs.cx/img96/3500/orion21pa.jpgThe Hulk survives four nukes at ground zero.
http://img226.echo.cx/img226/1403/durabilitynuke25as.jpgStating the obvious.
http://img78.exs.cx/img78/1617/nuke76fj.jpgThe Hulk leaps into concentrated anti-matter.
http://img39.exs.cx/img39/8765/durabilityantimatter4fg.jpg
[/B]
you saiod so yourself that you prefer to go by what happens in comics rather what handbooks say, so why are you favoring a handbook over scans and OTHER handbooks (especially when it doesn't prove me wrong at all)?
Originally posted by Accel
It's weird that they say he can't survive a nuke when he's done so so many times...you saiod so yourself that you prefer to go by what happens in comics rather what handbooks say, so why are you favoring a handbook over scans and OTHER handbooks (especially when it doesn't prove me wrong at all)?
Both handbooks said the same thing that hulks strength is near limitless or has the potential to be limitless, and he has a high degree of invulnerability.
Why is this so hard for you to accept?
Originally posted by Soujaboy
Both handbooks said the same thing that hulks strength is near limitless or has the potential to be limitless, and he has a high degree of invulnerability.Why is this so hard for you to accept?
I will wait to reply until you reply to my last 2 posts, the one at the top of this page and the bottom of the last.
Originally posted by Soujaboy
The fight lasted for hours, you really don't know what happened in the time period that Thor killed thing and Hulk. You just saw Hulk dead with a tree in his gut decided that it was PIS. You don't know what happened so why speculate?
The only logical conclusion is that hulk was knocked out.
Originally posted by Accel
[QUOTE=6742294]Originally posted by Soujaboy
Did it say that he could become more durable? no, so how can you just assume he can?
Originally posted by Soujaboy
Both handbooks said the same thing that hulks strength is near limitless or has the potential to be limitless, and he has a high degree of invulnerability.Why is this so hard for you to accept?
Originally posted by Dalak
This is exactly the reason CBR and SHC don't allow handbooks as valid evidence. They ALWAYS condtradict each other if you go over enough of them and they are invalidated about 3 months after they are published at the outside.
Im not sure what you want me to say? I didn't create the character nor did I the handbook?
Originally posted by Soujaboy
Im not sure what you want me to say? I didn't create the character nor did I the handbook?
That arguing using handbooks isn't using valid evidence. The Comic is what is the evidence and only when it is truly ambiguous and without corroboration is it called Narritive Hyperbole. Hulk's Strength being unlimited has been proven by him, and all of the statements that used machines and especially the Beyonder as backup instead of just being said alone are more proof that his strength is indeed unlimited.
Originally posted by Dalak
The Gamma mutated his body into a shapeshifter, but he's had the personalities latent and repressed in his head for decades. He's spend so long pushing that rage back and back that it's gained a sentience, and will of it's own. Rage it all it is, rage and power. That is the Hulk, and that's why I have no reason beliveing that he can gain unlimited rage. Still the Hulk is Banner, and banner is the Hulk because they are teh same person, just apparently opposites, Banner who represses and compresses his emotion and self, and teh Hulk who expresses himself and amplifies his rage beyond anything else. He's even said that he can get as angry as he wanted fighting the enhanced Abomination. "You can get 10 times as strong and Hulk will get 10 times as angry!!" That is how he sees himself, that is all he is, so why shouldn't be be able to have an unlimited range of Rage, Strength, and Durability, since they all are interwoven.As I mentioned earlier, with he durability increase his body will not HAVE that upper limit as it keeps going up along with everything else. His body gets built up to handle his own strength as it increases.
His healing factor is also tied into that, as the angrier he is the quicker he heals, as evidenced after the Secret War when the Savage heals in an instant the break in Banner-Hulk's leg. Thus the angrier he is the more he can heal.
He can be overloaded by a vast enough force applied fast enough to be faster than his responding increase, but not many are able to produce that so he is written often below what he is capable of like Superman is. That is for the reason of writing a better story, hense PIS. That's why low showings don't really count for anyone, not just the Hulk.
You can say that Thor's previous losses to Hulk are low showings, but he still stood up to the Hulk and didn't get easily crushed so I'm more than inclined to disagree seeing the people he's able to manhandle. Agreed he's not using his abilities to their utmost, but the Hulk is a walking challenge to any person who bases their existance in thier Strength and fighting prowess. That's a big reason why Herc, Thing, Thor, and pretty much any other high-end brick go out of their way to get into slug-outs with the Hulk, though it's not the only reason of course.
Anyway that's enough for now. I hope I've been able to enlighten you 😉
I've never denied that Hulk couldn't increase his strength or healing factor. I denied that Hulk had unlimited durability and stamina(I was wrong with the stamina).
I also now that it is difficult to kill Hulk, yet it's possible. It was accel that was trying to prove that Hulk was immortal and can't die.
I don't think Thor's previous fights with the Hulk were low showings, I just know the situations of the fights. Thor didn't want to kill Hulk, because inside his a teammate and friend. I believe that a bloodlusted Thor would overwhelm Hulk in the first 5 min's of a fight.
Originally posted by Dinalfos
Not to mention the fact that that very handbook not only contradicts other books, but also itself. It states that Hulk has nearly limitless strength, but it also states that his upper limit remains a mystery.
How does it contradict itself? it says that he has near limitless strength with the upper limits unknown. How is that contradicting itself?
Originally posted by Accel
What we do know is that Thor killed Hulk physically, which doesn't make sense. If he knocked Hulk out, it would work, but kill him?The only logical conclusion is that hulk was knocked out.
Because we've seen it happen on panel.
How is the only Logical conclusion that Hulk was knocked out? Thor fought the team for hours, in the end they were all dead. You assume that Hulk was ko'd because you can't accept the fact that he's not as invincible as you make him out to be.
I haven't
Originally posted by Dalak
That arguing using handbooks isn't using valid evidence. The Comic is what is the evidence and only when it is truly ambiguous and without corroboration is it called Narritive Hyperbole. Hulk's Strength being unlimited has been proven by him, and all of the statements that used machines and especially the Beyonder as backup instead of just being said alone are more proof that his strength is indeed unlimited.
The Beyonder said that Mindless hulk's rage and strength was unlimited, not Savage Hulk's.
BTW, Can you tell me how you can become anymore mindlessly enraged than mindlessly enraged?
Originally posted by Soujaboy
How does it contradict itself? it says that he has near limitless strength with the upper limits unknown. How is that contradicting itself?
If the upperlimit is unknown, then how do they know it's NEARLY unlimited? For all we know it's literally unlimited or far from it. It implies that the upperlimit is very well known to the writer but not to the scientists "inside" the Marvel Universe. Which would be silly.
Originally posted by Soujaboy
How is the only Logical conclusion that Hulk was knocked out? Thor fought the team for hours, in the end they were all dead. You assume that Hulk was ko'd because you can't accept the fact that he's not as invincible as you make him out to be.I haven't
If being reduced to atoms didn't kill him, then of course being gutted by a tree, or even bashed around by Thor's fist, sure as hell shouldn't do any thing.
It'd be like taking the time Thor had trouble holding a skyscraper into account, even though he once lifted the Midgard Serpent and moved the World Engine.
BTW I never once said Hulk was invincible. 🙄 Don't twist my words around.
Originally posted by Dinalfos
If the upperlimit is unknown, then how do they know it's NEARLY unlimited? For all we know it's literally unlimited or far from it. It implies that the upperlimit is very well known to the writer but not to the scientists "inside" the Marvel Universe. Which would be silly.
I weigh between 130 and 140 pounds with the exact weight being unknown.
Originally posted by Accel
It's the only logical conclusion because Hulk getting killed that way makes no sense. We've seen Hulk suffer A LOT worse than a tree being embedded in his gut and came out just fine. Heck, recently the Void broke every bone in his body and it still didn't kill him.If being reduced to atoms didn't kill him, then of course being gutted by a tree, or even bashed around by Thor's fist, sure as hell shouldn't do any thing.
It'd be like taking the time Thor had trouble holding a skyscraper into account, even though he once lifted the Midgard Serpent and moved the World Engine.
BTW I never once said Hulk was invincible. 🙄 Don't twist my words around.
can you tell me what happened in the hours of the fight that was off panel?
Your point? Thor once let Hulk live, yet another time killed him with one hand. 😉
However you did say that Hulk couldn't be physically killed which implies that he's invincible and immortal. 🙄
