Thor vs. Hulk

Originally posted by DarkOdin
Wroung here. They fought once in hero's reborn and this is when Hulk trashed the avengers. Thor gets there and they battle. Thor was clearly matching Hulk with no use of his other powers. Then thor gains the advantage and stops fighting as he see's Capt. America under some rubble and then starts to dig him out. This is when Hulk attacks Thor with his gaurd down and then Hulk takes over the fight and knocks out Thor. I guess you didn't read hero's reborn?????

Ok now what about the rest of my points? If Thor loses Mjolnir what happens next? Marvel comics obviously sees something that most forum lovers don't.... They think that the Hulk would beat the snot out of Thor. Even though cartoons are not considered canonical, recently a movie was made called Hulk vs Thor, and Thor was beaten soundly. So in your opinion if Marvel disagreed with this verdict do you think they would allow it in their movies? Just saying

Originally posted by Stoic
Ok now what about the rest of my points? If Thor loses Mjolnir what happens next? Marvel comics obviously sees something that most forum lovers don't.... They think that the Hulk would beat the snot out of Thor. Even though cartoons are not considered canonical, recently a movie was made called Hulk vs Thor, and Thor was beaten soundly. So in your opinion if Marvel disagreed with this verdict do you think they would allow it in their movies? Just saying

I didn't read any post past that one.

If Thor loses mjolnir he still can go H2H with Hulk and pull the majority for a win. Plus he has plenty of other power to put down Hulk with mjolnir.

Yup they would allow it in movies why b/c Hulk has a bigger name to the non-comic book general pubilc. If there is money to be made Marvel will do it. Look at all the movies X-men, punisher, spiderman, Fantastic 4, Hulk.they have don't follow the comics They were man to make the green.

Originally posted by DarkOdin
I didn't read any post past that one.

If Thor loses mjolnir he still can go H2H with Hulk and pull the majority for a win. Plus he has plenty of other power to put down Hulk with mjolnir.

Yup they would allow it in movies why b/c Hulk has a bigger name to the non-comic book general pubilc. If there is money to be made Marvel will do it. Look at all the movies X-men, punisher, spiderman, Fantastic 4, Hulk.they have don't follow the comics They were man to make the green.

Ask yourself this question ok, if you are fighting a peer in strength you would be evenly matched correct? Well what would happen if your opponents strength, durability, and speed continued to increase as you fought? You would logically begin to be less potent to your opponent and begin to lose ground. Thor hammer is more powerful it seems than he is.....hell Storm of the Xmen can hurl more power than the Hulk but this does not make her his superior.

Thor has in my knowledge only ever beaten the Hulk soundly on one occasion and that was when he was the Rune King, which can hardly be counted as he was on or above the level of Odin.

Marvel would never make the Hulk crush Galactus because of sales nor would they allow him to beat Thor nearly to death if they themselves did not think that he could do so.

The proof that the Hulk can overcome Thor in battle is part of his power set and there is simply no reason why Thor would be able to beat the Hulk if he was not able to take him out within the first 10 minutes of conflict.

WWHulk is another thing entirely, of which I have no doubt would rule Thor 8/10 times.

Old thread but anyway Thor ftw.

Thor, still.

It depends of which versions of them we are using.

Odin's son

Originally posted by WAF3001
People think Thor can take on Superman.

Yes.

Originally posted by WAF3001

People think Hulk can take on Superman.

No.

Originally posted by Stoic
Ask yourself this question ok, if you are fighting a peer in strength you would be evenly matched correct? Well what would happen if your opponents strength, durability, and speed continued to increase as you fought? You would logically begin to be less potent to your opponent and begin to lose ground. Thor hammer is more powerful it seems than he is.....hell Storm of the Xmen can hurl more power than the Hulk but this does not make her his superior.

Thor has in my knowledge only ever beaten the Hulk soundly on one occasion and that was when he was the Rune King, which can hardly be counted as he was on or above the level of Odin.

Marvel would never make the Hulk crush Galactus because of sales nor would they allow him to beat Thor nearly to death if they themselves did not think that he could do so.

The proof that the Hulk can overcome Thor in battle is part of his power set and there is simply no reason why Thor would be able to beat the Hulk if he was not able to take him out within the first 10 minutes of conflict.

WWHulk is another thing entirely, of which I have no doubt would rule Thor 8/10 times.

If you are saying Thor would loss to Hulk after a long H2H fight i could see that however Thor IMO Durability and strength would be able to put hulk down way before Hulk amps to Thors level.

once you add Thor's other powers. He owns Hulk. you do know Thor KO Hulk with one bolt of lighting.

In the same fight Thor koed him. he was carry him on his shoulder bring him back to earth. Hulk came to while Thor was carrying him and got Thor by surprise and proceed to pound Thor as hard as he could. Guess what it wasn't enough to KO Thor.

So one lighting bolt KO's Hulk repeated blows to the head unguarded from Hulk couldn't even knock out Thor

Originally posted by ankur29
where does it say thor restrains himself , is this the case fro every hulk thor encounter or are you making assumptions?

here thor says " I who am sprung from gods turned as savage as he"
what does this interpret to you rage?

btw i am not suggesting hulk wins

I already posted the scan in this thread.

That was because he was in a Berserker state.

Originally posted by Stoic
Just a few points on why I think the Hulk would beat Thor if these two were to fight to the death.

Heroes Reborn.
Hulk evidently beats Thor to death.

The Onslaught debacle.
It was the Hulk that defeated Onslaughts physical vessel not Thor. Thor was helpless to do anything against Onslaught.

Heroes Reborn Thor =/= 616 Thor

And no, he didn't beat him to death. He was able to temporarily knock him out and even that had circumstances.

Defeated? All he did was punch a hole in his armor, which he wanted him to do. Thor was able to simply fly through his armor as well.

How was Thor helpless?

Originally posted by Stoic
The Hulk fought Thor in the arctic where no one would be harmed, evidence points to Thor going into warrior madness mode, and still being pushed back by the Hulk. I also noticed that the Hulk was holding back in their battle, while Thor was going all out.

According to the writer it was Berserker State. Apparently he got the two confused to an extent. As well, Thor was weakened in that entire arc to the point he was mortal. A little lightning does not indicate him being back to full power especially based on the fluctuations he was having in that arc.

How was the Hulk holding back? He clearly wasn't.

Originally posted by Stoic
During the Secret Wars Hulk is seen saving the heroes (Thor included) from being crushed beneath a mountain, further cementing the Hulk's superior power over Thor.

So I'm guessing you didn't actually read the comic right?

Originally posted by Stoic
The Beyonder tested the Hulks strength, and states that the Hulk is an infinite power. What about Thor?

His potential does not know any limit. Cool. How many times has Thor's power been called unlimited?

Originally posted by Stoic
Thor has always been a powerful character, but his power has always had a cap. The Hulk has no cap.

When has Thor's power or strength ever shown a cap?

Originally posted by Stoic
Amadeus Cho said it best. The Hulk does not kill.

Except you know, all the times people died in his rampages.

To help re enforce.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Thor/Defenders10-09.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Thor/Defenders10-10.jpg

Thor would put Hulk down way before he amps enough to put Thor down.

Thank Priest for the scans

Originally posted by Stoic
Ok now what about the rest of my points? If Thor loses Mjolnir what happens next? Marvel comics obviously sees something that most forum lovers don't.... They think that the Hulk would beat the snot out of Thor. Even though cartoons are not considered canonical, recently a movie was made called Hulk vs Thor, and Thor was beaten soundly. So in your opinion if Marvel disagreed with this verdict do you think they would allow it in their movies? Just saying

What's going to happen if Thor loses Mjolnir? He can still go toe to toe without a doubt.

sly

You just said it. It's not cannon. It's not even a comic. It's a badly portrayed DVD.

Oh noes:

Thor kills the Hulk. Clearly, Marvel thinks "Thor's strength > Hulk's strength". That what if is more valid than that DVD.

Oh by the way. Thor has actually killed Hulk in a hand to hand fight in continuity. With one arm. Plus the Hulk had Thing's help. Plus the fight lasted for hours, so the Hulk's amping must have allowed to him reach incredible levels to no avail.

Originally posted by Stoic
Ask yourself this question ok, if you are fighting a peer in strength you would be evenly matched correct? Well what would happen if your opponents strength, durability, and speed continued to increase as you fought? You would logically begin to be less potent to your opponent and begin to lose ground.

Except if your opponent has a strength reserve so vast, that no matter how strong said peer gets, he cannot put down the opponent even if the battle lasts for hours.

Originally posted by Stoic
Thor hammer is more powerful it seems than he is.....hell Storm of the Xmen can hurl more power than the Hulk but this does not make her his superior.

Faulty logic. Let me get this straight. Are you trying to dispute that Thor is more powerful than the Hulk?

Originally posted by Stoic
Thor has in my knowledge only ever beaten the Hulk soundly on one occasion and that was when he was the Rune King, which can hardly be counted as he was on or above the level of Odin.

Actually read the comic before commenting on it. You are of course referring to King Thor who killed the Hulk. He did not have the Odin Force when he did that, as the Pantheon's of Earth allowed Doctor Strange to use an amulet to block it. And he beat the Hulk in hand to hand along with the Thing all on his own.

That isn't the only time his soundly beaten Thor.

Originally posted by Stoic
Marvel would never make the Hulk crush Galactus because of sales nor would they allow him to beat Thor nearly to death if they themselves did not think that he could do so.

Bullshit. Movies and DVDs are not cannon. I love the double standards people use at times. If I started pulling out non-cannon shit, I beat you'll be the first one in line to scream "NOOOO, HULK STRONGEST!! NON CANNON!!!!!!! POOOF'.

Originally posted by Stoic
The proof that the Hulk can overcome Thor in battle is part of his power set and there is simply no reason why Thor would be able to beat the Hulk if he was not able to take him out within the first 10 minutes of conflict.

Except all their other fights say otherwise, but hey, what does evidence have to do with anything when we're dealing with the Hulk and his powerset.

Originally posted by Stoic
WWHulk is another thing entirely, of which I have no doubt would rule Thor 8/10 times.

What did he do in that entire arc, that would prove, he can beat Thor even in hand to hand?

His greatest feat was stalemating the Sentry, and at this point, that isn't actually impressive.

Thor kills him.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What's going to happen if Thor loses Mjolnir? He can still go toe to toe without a doubt.

sly

You just said it. It's not cannon. It's not even a comic. It's a badly portrayed DVD.

Thor kills the Hulk. Clearly, Marvel thinks "Thor's strength > Hulk's strength". That what if is more valid than that DVD.

Oh by the way. Thor has actually killed Hulk in a hand to hand fight in continuity. With one arm. Plus the Hulk had Thing's help. Plus the fight lasted for hours, so the Hulk's amping must have allowed to him reach incredible levels to no avail.

Ugh. You're getting carried away again. First off, in those very scans, Thor mentally notes that Hulk's strength matches his own. And in the test-of-strength stalemate, Thor can't overpower Hulk any more than Hulk can overpower Thor. So they're equal there, too. And don't bother with the "holding back" crap. He's given Hulk shots with mustard on it before(ie, not holding back), so he knows Hulk can handle his attacks. So obviously Thor shouldn't be worried about beating Hulk in a test-of-strength, as the only thing damaged would be Hulk's pride. It's clear there that Thor can't overpower Hulk. Thor may have a deep reserve of strength, but Hulk's strength never stops rising. Apocalypse, Thanos, and even The Beyonder himself noted Hulk had unlimited physical power. And they, more than anyone, would know.

Next, the broken neck. That's not power. They're in the same range, so that came down to fighting ability. Thor noted that Hulk's rage made him careless. You don't have to be stronger than someone to break their neck. The neck is a very fragile and vulnerable spot. That was simply Thor's strength vs Hulk's durability. Strength does not equal durability at all. That's why even early on in their fights, Hulk has been able to hurt Thor. And again, "holding back" doesn't mean "stand there and take it". And it doesn't mean "lower yourself". It's not like Thor can control his own durability. In the time when Thor only regarded Hulk as a monster, he wouldn't play "go easy on the mortal". Holding back is simply not killing. So, he would have just KO'd him and flew him to a distant planet. Well, if he could'a, he would'a.

Lastly, the "one-shot" lightning bolt. First, I'll argue as if it really was a "one-shot". That in no way equals strength. It's not like it was any old lightning bolt either. It was Thor's lightning bolt. Hulk's taken Storm's hardest blasts before, no problem. When he first fought Black Bolt, it took like a bunch of normal lightning bolts to KO Hulk. And that was pre-I-can-take-nukes Hulk. That was a-fall-from-heights-can-kill-me Hulk. Ancient history. Hulk is absurdly more powerful than he was back then. Anyway, I digress, Thor's power is the only thing Thor's ever been able to one-shot KO Hulk with. He's never just *pow* and lights out for Hulk. It was simply a one-shot. Just because he did then, doesn't mean he can do it again. At least not every time they meet. After all, it didn't kill Hulk, or even harm him other than KO. So why hold that back? I repeat, if he could'a, he would'a. It was simply a good Thor showing in a Thor vs Hulk. What about when Hulk was pounding on Thor? Of course he didn't KO Thor. It's Thor, not Thing. But Hulk could've kept going. It's not like Thor threw him off. Thor didn't get up until Hulk laid off. So as for the lightning, it's bullsh*t to say "Hey, Thor could *BAM* and slug Hulk out cold whenever he wants*. The lightning is one thing. But can anyone name anyone that has ever one-shot punched out Hulk in full combat?

And finally finally, it wasn't a one-shot at all. A one-shot is the only attack in the entire fight. Thor and Hulk had already fought for a while, during which Thor had already struck Hulk with lightning once without it being KO, and after Thor injured Hulk's hand with Mjolnir, Thor clocked him a good one. Knocked Hulk down. Hulk then ran at Thor and Thor got him in the back of the head with the lightning again. So it wasn't a one-shot. Hell, it didn't even prove Thor is more powerful. It really just says Thor is a better fighter. That's basically all any of their fights have proven, but Thor doesn't have Thanos, Apocalypse, and Beyonder vouching for his unlimited power.

EDIT: But, obviously I agree with the widely accepted "Hulk is stronger, but Thor is more powerful" thing.

Originally posted by Master Court
Ugh. You're getting carried away again. First off, in those very scans, Thor mentally notes that Hulk's strength matches his own. And in the test-of-strength stalemate, Thor can't overpower Hulk any more than Hulk can overpower Thor. So they're equal there, too. And don't bother with the "holding back" crap. He's given Hulk shots with mustard on it before(ie, not holding back), so he knows Hulk can handle his attacks. So obviously Thor shouldn't be worried about beating Hulk in a test-of-strength, as the only thing damaged would be Hulk's pride. It's clear there that Thor can't overpower Hulk. Thor may have a deep reserve of strength, but Hulk's strength never stops rising. Apocalypse, Thanos, and even The Beyonder himself noted Hulk had unlimited physical power. And they, more than anyone, would know.

Next, the broken neck. That's not power. They're in the same range, so that came down to fighting ability. Thor noted that Hulk's rage made him careless. You don't have to be stronger than someone to break their neck. The neck is a very fragile and vulnerable spot. That was simply Thor's strength vs Hulk's durability. Strength does not equal durability at all. That's why even early on in their fights, Hulk has been able to hurt Thor. And again, "holding back" doesn't mean "stand there and take it". And it doesn't mean "lower yourself". It's not like Thor can control his own durability. In the time when Thor only regarded Hulk as a monster, he wouldn't play "go easy on the mortal". Holding back is simply not killing. So, he would have just KO'd him and flew him to a distant planet. Well, if he could'a, he would'a.

Lastly, the "one-shot" lightning bolt. First, I'll argue as if it really was a "one-shot". That in no way equals strength. It's not like it was any old lightning bolt either. It was Thor's lightning bolt. Hulk's taken Storm's hardest blasts before, no problem. When he first fought Black Bolt, it took like a bunch of normal lightning bolts to KO Hulk. And that was pre-I-can-take-nukes Hulk. That was a-fall-from-heights-can-kill-me Hulk. Ancient history. Hulk is absurdly more powerful than he was back then. Anyway, I digress, Thor's power is the only thing Thor's ever been able to one-shot KO Hulk with. He's never just *pow* and lights out for Hulk. It was simply a one-shot. Just because he did then, doesn't mean he can do it again. At least not every time they meet. After all, it didn't kill Hulk, or even harm him other than KO. So why hold that back? I repeat, if he could'a, he would'a. It was simply a good Thor showing in a Thor vs Hulk. What about when Hulk was pounding on Thor? Of course he didn't KO Thor. It's Thor, not Thing. But Hulk could've kept going. It's not like Thor threw him off. Thor didn't get up until Hulk laid off. So as for the lightning, it's bullsh*t to say "Hey, Thor could *BAM* and slug Hulk out cold whenever he wants*. The lightning is one thing. But can anyone name anyone that has ever one-shot punched out Hulk in full combat?

And finally finally, it wasn't a one-shot at all. A one-shot is the only attack in the entire fight. Thor and Hulk had already fought for a while, during which Thor had already struck Hulk with lightning once without it being KO, and after Thor injured Hulk's hand with Mjolnir, Thor clocked him a good one. Knocked Hulk down. Hulk then ran at Thor and Thor got him in the back of the head with the lightning again. So it wasn't a one-shot. Hell, it didn't even prove Thor is more powerful. It really just says Thor is a better fighter. That's basically all any of their fights have proven, but Thor doesn't have Thanos, Apocalypse, and Beyonder vouching for his unlimited power.

EDIT: But, obviously I agree with the widely accepted "Hulk is stronger, but Thor is more powerful" thing.

Well said.

All Thor has to do is use his Superspeed which he does have but rarely uses it, blitz Hulk, magnetize him to the ground and hit him with the same lighting he used on Surtur or the Celestial. Honestly can any one tell how Hulk wins? If Thor was fighting like he did against Hela, or the guy who stole the Odin power, or hell even absorbing man when he took his strength Hulk can't land a blow. Thors been seen taking Hulk out with lighting when he really didn't wanna fight.

Thors always holding back on Hulk, Hulk never holds back and Hulk still doesn't win. Really is it that hard to see Thor throwing his hammer light speed and it going through Hulks head? Thor throwing Anti matter at Hulk? Thor hitting Hulk so hard he is thrown into the solar system like he did to that immortal, and indestructible viking? Common sense Says The guy who has taken down tougher foes and is faster who can fight wins.

Superman can't beat Thor for that earlier comment.

Originally posted by Master Court
Ugh. You're getting carried away again. First off, in those very scans, Thor mentally notes that Hulk's strength matches his own. And in the test-of-strength stalemate, Thor can't overpower Hulk any more than Hulk can overpower Thor. So they're equal there, too. And don't bother with the "holding back" crap. He's given Hulk shots with mustard on it before(ie, not holding back), so he knows Hulk can handle his attacks. So obviously Thor shouldn't be worried about beating Hulk in a test-of-strength, as the only thing damaged would be Hulk's pride. It's clear there that Thor can't overpower Hulk. Thor may have a deep reserve of strength, but Hulk's strength never stops rising. Apocalypse, Thanos, and even The Beyonder himself noted Hulk had unlimited physical power. And they, more than anyone, would know.

Next, the broken neck. That's not power. They're in the same range, so that came down to fighting ability. Thor noted that Hulk's rage made him careless. You don't have to be stronger than someone to break their neck. The neck is a very fragile and vulnerable spot. That was simply Thor's strength vs Hulk's durability. Strength does not equal durability at all. That's why even early on in their fights, Hulk has been able to hurt Thor. And again, "holding back" doesn't mean "stand there and take it". And it doesn't mean "lower yourself". It's not like Thor can control his own durability. In the time when Thor only regarded Hulk as a monster, he wouldn't play "go easy on the mortal". Holding back is simply not killing. So, he would have just KO'd him and flew him to a distant planet. Well, if he could'a, he would'a.

Lastly, the "one-shot" lightning bolt. First, I'll argue as if it really was a "one-shot". That in no way equals strength. It's not like it was any old lightning bolt either. It was Thor's lightning bolt. Hulk's taken Storm's hardest blasts before, no problem. When he first fought Black Bolt, it took like a bunch of normal lightning bolts to KO Hulk. And that was pre-I-can-take-nukes Hulk. That was a-fall-from-heights-can-kill-me Hulk. Ancient history. Hulk is absurdly more powerful than he was back then. Anyway, I digress, Thor's power is the only thing Thor's ever been able to one-shot KO Hulk with. He's never just *pow* and lights out for Hulk. It was simply a one-shot. Just because he did then, doesn't mean he can do it again. At least not every time they meet. After all, it didn't kill Hulk, or even harm him other than KO. So why hold that back? I repeat, if he could'a, he would'a. It was simply a good Thor showing in a Thor vs Hulk. What about when Hulk was pounding on Thor? Of course he didn't KO Thor. It's Thor, not Thing. But Hulk could've kept going. It's not like Thor threw him off. Thor didn't get up until Hulk laid off. So as for the lightning, it's bullsh*t to say "Hey, Thor could *BAM* and slug Hulk out cold whenever he wants*. The lightning is one thing. But can anyone name anyone that has ever one-shot punched out Hulk in full combat?

And finally finally, it wasn't a one-shot at all. A one-shot is the only attack in the entire fight. Thor and Hulk had already fought for a while, during which Thor had already struck Hulk with lightning once without it being KO, and after Thor injured Hulk's hand with Mjolnir, Thor clocked him a good one. Knocked Hulk down. Hulk then ran at Thor and Thor got him in the back of the head with the lightning again. So it wasn't a one-shot. Hell, it didn't even prove Thor is more powerful. It really just says Thor is a better fighter. That's basically all any of their fights have proven, but Thor doesn't have Thanos, Apocalypse, and Beyonder vouching for his unlimited power.

EDIT: But, obviously I agree with the widely accepted "Hulk is stronger, but Thor is more powerful" thing.

Okay about the lighting bolt yeah its Thor lighting bolt but read the comic. Thor put no effort into the lighting bolt at all. When Thor puts effort into a lighting bolt usually it has enough powerful to destroy and entire city which was stated ot it will be pureist of lighting which he used on Mangog in his early years. Please don't try to say just because it was Thors lighting that it has to be all that strong. Thor has never thrown such a carless piece of lighting at any one the way he did towards Hulk.

Thor admits that Hulk can become stronger then he is but doesn't say Hulk is as strong as he is. Usually he says he's the strongest foe he has ever face, but at the same time he says that about Mister Hyde so does that mean Hulk and Hyde are equals? Don't think so.
Thor is always holding back against Hulk, while Hulk is giving it his all. Thor, Dr.Strange, and Silver Surfer all claim they don't want to kill Hulk just put him down. Thats why Thor doesn't just do a god blast or hit Hulk with enough force to shatter a planet(Which he has shown) and take him out. He feels bad for the poor guy named banner trapped inside. Even in the avengers comic they admit Hulk takes advantage of the fact they all Hold back.

Originally posted by kakuzu
Okay about the lighting bolt yeah its Thor lighting bolt but read the comic. Thor put no effort into the lighting bolt at all. When Thor puts effort into a lighting bolt usually it has enough powerful to destroy and entire city which was stated ot it will be pureist of lighting which he used on Mangog in his early years. Please don't try to say just because it was Thors lighting that it has to be all that strong. Thor has never thrown such a carless piece of lighting at any one the way he did towards Hulk.

This is merely your take on the art work. "Thor has never thrown such a careless blah blah blah." You're critiquing the artwork, not quantifying the power of the attack. Hulk has taken ground zero nuclear blasts. He's held a nuke in his hand as it went off. So if anything's going to knock him out in a heated battle, it's going to be something with at least the power to level a city. In addition, the lightning didn't touch the ground. It hit Hulk. So Hulk took the full brunt of it. Hence why it didn't level the area.

Originally posted by kakuzu Thor admits that Hulk can become stronger then he is but doesn't say Hulk is as strong as he is. Usually he says he's the strongest foe he has ever face, but at the same time he says that about Mister Hyde so does that mean Hulk and Hyde are equals? Don't think so.
Thor is always holding back against Hulk, while Hulk is giving it his all. Thor, Dr.Strange, and Silver Surfer all claim they don't want to kill Hulk just put him down. Thats why Thor doesn't just do a god blast or hit Hulk with enough force to shatter a planet(Which he has shown) and take him out. He feels bad for the poor guy named banner trapped inside. Even in the avengers comic they admit Hulk takes advantage of the fact they all Hold back. [/B]

🙄

Thor is not always holding back. I just explained why. And Hulk isn't always giving his all. That's why he's hit guys like Spider-Man, Iron Man, and Captain America without really hurting them. Hulk's caught Spider-Man before. So if he wanted to, he could catch Captain America and just pull his head off, or squish him. Doesn't. Why? Hulk's not a murderer. His entire history, he's always just wanted to be left alone. And as for the Avengers holding back... LO-F*CKING-L. No one in the classic Avengers other than Thor could ever shake a crackpipe at Hulk. And Hulk doesn't have an "all". Hulk once held apart two spheres of matter and anti-matter that were said to be of "infinite mass". Meanwhile, Thor once struggled to lift the Midgard Serpent(not of infinite mass). The Serpent's not a mortal. Are you saying Thor was holding back? And NO, read the f*cking scans again. Thor says "whose strength matches my own". He says nothing about "when I'm holding back" or "eventually". He just says flat out that Hulk's strength matches his own. That's as clear as you can get. Are you disputing Thor's words, or just picking and choosing what you want sh*t to mean. The only time I can recall Thor ever saying he's held back on Hulk, he said he's "Held back in the past". Just like I've taken sh*ts in the past. It doesn't mean I'm always sh*tting. It means I've taken a sh*t here and there in the past. Thor failed against Onslaught. Hulk succeeded. Whether or not Onslaught "wanted" it or not doesn't make a difference. Obviously Onslaught can't choose his own durability. Thor wasn't holding back there, and he failed. Hulk busted Onslaught open. That's a clear case of Hulk's strength > Thor's. It can't get any clearer. That's why Onslaught was taunting Hulk. He knew if he got him mad enough, Hulk would easily do the deed.

I've slapped together three panels from different fights just to illustrate my point.

First panel, Thor is thinking to himself, meaning not saying out loud, and noting Hulk's strength matches his own. Second panel, the narration tells that Thor strikes without holding back. And it's narration, not commentary. It's not some guy's opinion. Narration is suppose to be telling us what we can't possibly know without the character's themselves thinking it or saying it. So it's fact. Either Thor was lying when the told the guy he holds back against Hulk, or it was just around that time(the fight in the panel) that Thor realized he can't hold back against Hulk when Hulk gets serious. What's more, that particular attack didn't KO Hulk, or even slow him down. Perhaps Thor's not as strong as he is powerful? And the last panel is self explanatory, or should be anyway. But it's Hulk, manhandling all the Avengers, including Namor, Hercules, Iron Man, Wonder Man, and She-Hulk. Iron Man and Wonder Man themselves had earlier explained they can't hold him. Namor and Hercules jumped in to help restrain Hulk, but Hulk pitched them all off at the same time. You don't "restrain" yourself to restrain someone. And just look at that scan. What there makes you think for one f*cking second that any of them could go all out on Hulk and make a difference? Notice something? No Thor. Because Thor's the only real challenge. Remember Iron Man and all his Hulk-Buster armor? He's never succeeded with it, but his aim is always to put Hulk down. You don't "hold back" to put someone out. Especially when they routinely trash your expensive armor and KO all your friends. The Avengers aren't sh*t to Hulk. Together, they equal one effective brick. Even then, they rarely do all that well against Hulk. Win or lose, they try really hard, and take lots of bumps.