Human Torch vs. Pyro

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Actually, that wasn't my argument at all. I never argued that Pyro would have the ability to shut off Torch's flames. I was only alluding to the fact that Pyro should be able to CONTROL Torch's flames, as his fire manipulation has pretty consistently been superior over time.

Also, in order to create distance, he would need to start off somewhere close. Before he can take off, Pyro can take advantage of the situation.

LordKaos said everything else I was going to say.

And together we have created the perfect defense MUWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA 💃

Originally posted by LordKaos
The proof is that he is pyrokinetic, a power that allows him to manipulate fire as well as increase and decrease it's size and intensity. the very nature of his power is proof, now you prove that Human Torch has the ability to resist this, especailly when the natural forces that can put out a fire are enough to stop him.

If he gets within a 100 meters of Pyro his speed is irrelevant, thought faster than his flight speed.

Pyro too can create fire constructs (with more variety and the ability to simulate force), if he were to see 100 Human Torch's we are to believe he'll waste time on them instead of realizing that they are fire constructs, he can disperse them just as soon as they can be created, he could even take control of them to fight Human Torch.

Storm is also a pyro-kinetic (he can manipulate fire with a thought). The definition of Pyro's abilities you gave me is exactly what Torch can do, only to a greater degree (Pyro has never increased the "intesity" of a fire to a 1,000,000 degrees). You're claiming that Pyro's ability to increase and decrease the size and intesity of fire is greater than Torch's, although Torch can also create and absorb fire in addition to simply manipulating it.

Now, prove to me Pyro's ability to manipulate fire is so much greater than Johnny Storm's that it will allow him to completely extinguish his flames.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Pyro controls fire. Not heat. Johnny could unload plasma blast wich isn't really fire and win. If he sparks up one flame tho, he'd lose. Hard.

How? Pyro can't hurt Johnny with fire neither.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Pyro controls fire. Not heat. Johnny could unload plasma blast wich isn't really fire and win. If he sparks up one flame tho, he'd lose. Hard.

Uh...what? 🤨

When has Torch ever been able to produce any sort of plasma blast? And if he has been able to, when has he been able to without being flamed on first?

No, Pyro does not control heat. He is, however, immune to it. Otherwise his fire manipulation would be severely damaging him constantly. I don't believe we've seen the upper limits of this heat-immunity.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Actually, that wasn't my argument at all. I never argued that Pyro would have the ability to shut off Torch's flames. I was only alluding to the fact that Pyro should be able to CONTROL Torch's flames, as his fire manipulation has pretty consistently been superior over time.

Also, in order to create distance, he would need to start off somewhere close. Before he can take off, Pyro can take advantage of the situation.

LordKaos said everything else I was going to say.

No one controls Torch's flames better than he can (save a cosmic being).

Johnny is the greatest manipulator of his own heat.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Uh...what? 🤨

When has Torch ever been able to produce any sort of plasma blast? And if he has been able to, when has he been able to without being flamed on first?

No, Pyro does not control heat. He is, however, immune to it. Otherwise his fire manipulation would be severely damaging him constantly. I don't believe we've seen the upper limits of this heat-immunity.

Fire does not reach a 1,000,000 degrees. What comes out of the sun is not fire, it is ambient heat energy, or plasma, or something else.

At that temperature what he is expelling/absorbing is not fire.

The reason Pyro is immune to fire is because fire only reaches a certain temp. Pyro is not immune to 1,000,000 degrees.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
How? Pyro can't hurt Johnny with fire neither.

It's not that Pyro would hurt Johnny with the fire itself, but with the solid constructs that he would create out of fire.

Hell, with Pyro's superior control over fire, he could just literally crush Johnny or rip him apart if he's flamed on. Manipulating the very fire surrounding Johnny, Pyro could easily do anything he wanted to him.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Pyro controls fire. Not heat. Johnny could unload plasma blast wich isn't really fire and win. If he sparks up one flame tho, he'd lose. Hard.

but then with further elaboration into Pyros power we know that he does not create flame so that is not a factor in his ability to increase fire, he does not manipulate oxygen so that is not a factor, so the only logical explanation for how he increases and decreases the size and intensity of a flame would mean he has some ability to manipulate heat (and possibly light to some degree) as well, ie his constructs that can affect matter without burning, that would also denote him controlling heat on some level.

Originally posted by nimbus006
Fire does not reach a 1,000,000 degrees.

At that temperature what he is expelling/absorbing is plasma.

The reason Pyro is immune to fire is because fire only reaches a certain temp. Pyro is not immune to 1,000,000 degrees.

He's honestly never showed an upper limit to how much heat he can take. Just saying. So we have no basis for arguing either way.

Originally posted by nimbus006
No one controls Torch's flames better than he can (save a cosmic being).

Johnny is the greatest manipulator of his own heat.

I disagree. While Johnny is fantastic at it, I've always seen Pyro's fire manipulation to be better. More refined, more precise. Superior control.

Originally posted by LordKaos
That's a possibility, but then with further elaboration into Pyros power we know that he does not create flame so that is not a factor in his ability to increase fire, he does not manipulate oxygen so that is not a factor, so the only logical explanation for how he increases and decreases the size and intensity of a flame would mean he has some ability to manipulate heat (and possibly light to some degree) as well, ie his constructs that can affect matter without burning, that would also denote him controlling heat on some level.

Now your just speculating.

When he is granted the ability to manipulate heat/light by a writer in a comic, then you can make all the assumptions and arguments you want.

Torch has been shown on panel to manipulate heat and reach temperatures upto a 1,000,000 degrees.

The burden of proof is on you to prove Pyro can handle that.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I disagree. While Johnny is fantastic at it, I've always seen Pyro's fire manipulation to be better. More refined, more precise. Superior control.

Maybe Pyro is more creative, fine, but he cannot increase heat to the max temp that Torch can, and that is FACT.

Originally posted by nimbus006
Storm is also a pyro-kinetic (he can manipulate fire with a thought). The definition of Pyro's abilities you gave me is exactly what Torch can do, only to a greater degree (Pyro has never increased the "intesity" of a fire to a 1,000,000 degrees). You're claiming that Pyro's ability to increase and decrease the size and intesity of fire is greater than Torch's, although Torch can also create and absorb fire in addition to simply manipulating it.

Now, prove to me Pyro's ability to manipulate fire is so much greater than Johnny Storm's that it will allow him to completely extinguish his flames.

HT does not increase a fire through pyrokinetic manipulation and you can't prove that he can because he generates flame, all he has to do is add more fire. Nobody said his ability to intensify fire was greater because he has no mechanism to create fire, he does have a mechanism that would allow him to take control of HTs body and cause him to beat his own ass. There has never been an upper limit to the degree at which Pyro can increase or decrease so saying that HT can make one too hot is speculative at best. For all his power and limited pryokinesis, HT is usually just a flying blaster, while Pyro has been using and trained to use his power to manipulate all things fire, even to the point of creating fire apparitions that he can project his voice through.

Originally posted by nimbus006
Now your just speculating.

When he is granted the ability to manipulate heat/light by a writer in a comic, then you can make all the assumptions and arguments you want.

Torch has been shown on panel to manipulate heat and reach temperatures upto a 1,000,000 degrees.

The burden of proof is on you to prove Pyro can handle that.

Note that the entire post is based on the only logical way a person who does not generate flame can increase a fire that already exists. When a fire is increased in intensity and size it increases in heat and light there is nothing speculative about it, if he cannot directly create fire or manipulate oxygen then how does he increase a fire? It's not far fetched and no more speculative than HT being able to resist Pyros power to control his own flame. The burden of proof is on you to proove that Pyro can't take control of him before he reaches that temp.

Originally posted by nimbus006
Maybe Pyro is more creative, fine, but he cannot increase heat to the max temp that Torch can, and that is FACT.

A fact would mean somebody put a cap on his power and they haven't, I agree it is not all powerful, but the amount of heat that HT can generate is irrelevant simply because Pyro can mentally interfere with his increasing of fire.

Originally posted by LordKaos
A fact would mean somebody put a cap on his power and they haven't, I agree it is not all powerful, but the amount of heat that HT can generate is irrelevant simply because Pyro can mentally interfere with his increasing of fire.

Your opinion that Pyro can interfere with Torch's ability to increase fire is speculative.

You have no proof.

Question: If Johnny technically is not "technically" Pyro-kinetic, then what the hell is he?

He's much more than a Pyro-kinetic.

Why? Because he can generate and manipulate heat which goes way beyond Pyro's abilities.

Originally posted by LordKaos
A fact would mean somebody put a cap on his power and they haven't, I agree it is not all powerful, but the amount of heat that HT can generate is irrelevant simply because Pyro can mentally interfere with his increasing of fire.

He has never done it, therefore, as of this moment he cannot.

Originally posted by nimbus006
He has never done it, therefore, as of this moment he cannot.

He does not have to do it for it to be possible, he can mentally decrease the power of any fire he can perceive, HT is on fire and uses fire to attack if he can increase his flame then a person who has power over fire can effectively interfere with this. Never said HT was not pyrokinetic, what I said was that because he is a flame thrower it makes no sense to believe that he increases fire the same way Pyro does because he can generate fire and does so through non psionic means.

Originally posted by nimbus006
Your opinion that Pyro can interfere with Torch's ability to increase fire is speculative.

You have no proof.

Question: If Johnny technically is not "technically" Pyro-kinetic, then what the hell is he?

He's much more than a Pyro-kinetic.

Why? Because he can generate and manipulate heat which goes way beyond Pyro's abilities.

Pyro has been consistently shown to have better and more complexed manipulation feats.

Originally posted by LordKaos
He does not have to do it for it to be possible, he can mentally decrease the power of any fire he can perceive, HT is on fire and uses fire to attack if he can increase his flame then a person who has power over fire can effectively interfere with this.

I was referring to Pyro's ability to increase fire to the magnitude that Torch can. And Pyro can't interfere with it, if Torch's ability to manipulate his own heat is greater than Pyro's.

Originally posted by LordKaos
Never said HT was not pyrokinetic, what I said was that because he is a flame thrower it makes no sense to believe that he increases fire the same way Pyro does because he can generate fire and does so through non psionic means. [/B]

But we've seen him increase fire to Nova lvls, so I don't understand what you're saying.