Originally posted by nimbus006
Probably because he has too due to the fact that he doesn't have as much raw power as Torch so he has to elaborate.
He has to due to the nature of his power, which he uses better than the limited form HT has. Other than stating the obvious, HT being able to generate flames on his own you have not proved that that alone will be enough to stomp a person who can control not only his power, but also his body which is not all that hot to begin with if we are still grasping at the concept that HT can become too hot for Pyro to control, which is ridiculous and speculative because the only limits that have been placed on Pyros powers are his range of influence not the temp. he can manipulate, induce or reduce.
Originally posted by LordKaosWhy would Pyro be able to control Johnny's ability to discharge heat that is not fire? Torch doesn't have to be "Flamed On" to discharge UV or other types of radiation. And if it comes to a quick draw situation, only one of these guys can move at supersonic speed.
He has to due to the nature of his power, which he uses better than the limited form HT has. Other than stating the obvious, HT being able to generate flames on his own you have not proved that that alone will be enough to stomp a person who can control not only his power, but also his body which is not all that hot to begin with if we are still grasping at the concept that HT can become too hot for Pyro to control, which is ridiculous and speculative because the only limits that have been placed on Pyros powers are his range of influence not the temp. he can manipulate, induce or reduce.
Originally posted by Acrosurge
Why would Pyro be able to control Johnny's ability to discharge heat that is not fire? Torch doesn't have to be "Flamed On" to discharge UV or other types of radiation. And if it comes to a quick draw situation, only one of these guys can move at supersonic speed.
I'm not calling you a liar, but when has Johnny shown this ability to project/discharge radiation when not flamed on, let alone at all?
And, like established earlier, unless I've REALLY missed something about Johnny, he can't instantly accelerate to supersonic speeds.
Originally posted by MetalmanxI'll check on the first for an issue number. As for the second, Torch can't hit supersonic instantly, but he's known for very quick and maneuverable flight. This is enough, IMO, to trump Pyro's human+ movement speed.
I'm not calling you a liar, but when has Johnny shown this ability to project/discharge radiation when not flamed on, let alone at all?And, like established earlier, unless I've REALLY missed something about Johnny, he can't instantly accelerate to supersonic speeds.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
I'm not calling you a liar, but when has Johnny shown this ability to project/discharge radiation when not flamed on, let alone at all?And, like established earlier, unless I've REALLY missed something about Johnny, he can't instantly accelerate to supersonic speeds.
My thoughts exactly.
Originally posted by Acrosurge
I'll check on the first for an issue number. As for the second, Torch can't hit supersonic instantly, but he's known for very quick and maneuverable flight. This is enough, IMO, to trump Pyro's human+ movement speed.
Pyro does not need movement his powers are triggered by his mind, he only has to see him.
Originally posted by LordKaosIn Fantastic Four #253, Torch flies at a group of aliens (who themselves were described to move with surprising speed), faster than the eye can follow.
Pyro does not need movement his powers are triggered by his mind, he only has to see him.
Even if he can't move at supersonic speed straight out, Torch has enough of these kinds of feats to suggest that he can trump Pyro's reflexes.
Still looking for Torch using his heat powers without being flamed on. You're going to have to take my word or leave it on this one. I'm looking through Gitcorp's DVD collection of the Fantastic Four, and while I'm pretty sure the incidents in question took place in the 70s, I've got quite a lot of issue to look through.
Torch also has one (possibly more showings) where he uses his power to steal heat from objects (thus freezing them). Unfortunately, this wasn't in the respect thread and I have no idea where it is either.
Edit: FF #207, Torch melts through a steel vault without being flamed on. He fires a heat beam from his hands. Johnny also fires heat beams at the original, android Human torch in FF #189.
I know it doesn't count but in a fantastic four novel johnny takes all the heat out of a giant jellyfish from the negative zone. i think it comes down to the fact that pyro has control of any fire, but johnny has control over his own fire so i think that they would cancel each other out. and pyro is pretty resistant to changes in temp but i think if johnny went super nova on his ass, pyro would be screwed. any way this is entire argument is pointless cos if johnny doesn't light up what is pyro going to manipulate?.
Originally posted by Acrosurge
In Fantastic Four #253, Torch flies at a group of aliens (who themselves were described to move with surprising speed), faster than the eye can follow.Even if he can't move at supersonic speed straight out, Torch has enough of these kinds of feats to suggest that he can trump Pyro's reflexes.
Still looking for Torch using his heat powers without being flamed on. You're going to have to take my word or leave it on this one. I'm looking through Gitcorp's DVD collection of the Fantastic Four, and while I'm pretty sure the incidents in question took place in the 70s, I've got quite a lot of issue to look through.
Torch also has one (possibly more showings) where he uses his power to steal heat from objects (thus freezing them). Unfortunately, this wasn't in the respect thread and I have no idea where it is either.
Edit: FF #207, Torch melts through a steel vault without being flamed on. He fires a heat beam from his hands.
Reflexes are physical, pyrokinesis is psionic, he doesn't need to do anything but think to activate his power over fire. Other than flight, HT doesn't have any speed feats or speed based powers that make him any faster than Pyro nor is he impervious to force, something that Pryo can generate once he has control over fire, something that HT has never done even with the rate at which his powers and abilities have increased with every post. 😉
Originally posted by LordKaosTorch's powers haven't increased, only your awareness of them. 😉
Reflexes are physical, pyrokinesis is psionic, he doesn't need to do anything but think to activate his power over fire. Other than flight, HT doesn't have any speed feats or speed based powers that make him any faster than Pyro nor is he impervious to force, something that Pryo can generate once he has control over fire, something that HT has never done even with the rate at which his powers and abilities have increased with every post. 😉
torch for the win.
pyro can't control the flames of johnny storm since they are under his control already, and torch has exhibited great flame control.
torch is also immune to flames unless they are generated by a fire lord or some other uber-fire user.
and a flame must be under his control for pyro to be invulnerable to it, otherwise that ausie gets barbecued.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
torch for the win.pyro can't control the flames of johnny storm since they are under his control already, and torch has exhibited great flame control.
torch is also immune to flames unless they are generated by a fire lord or some other uber-fire user.
and a flame must be under his control for pyro to be invulnerable to it, otherwise that ausie gets barbecued.
Unless I'm mistaken, that's speculative at best. When has Pyro ever been shown to be vulnerable to fire that he is not controlling?
And why can't Pyro control Johnny's flames? He has greater control over fire than Johnny. Of course Torch won't be hurt by the fire itself, but by the physical, solid constructs that Pyro produces with the fire. Or Pyro can simply manipulate the very fire that surrounds Torch and crush him/rip him/twist him/snap him/etc. within the fire.
Think about it. It's as if a piece of wood was located within a metal shell, and Magneto wants to break the wood. All he has to do is manipulate the metal surrounding the wood in order to break it. Same concept here. Pyro control would overpower Torch's, and then it sucks to have flames around you.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
torch for the win.pyro can't control the flames of johnny storm since they are under his control already, and torch has exhibited great flame control.
torch is also immune to flames unless they are generated by a fire lord or some other uber-fire user.
and a flame must be under his control for pyro to be invulnerable to it, otherwise that ausie gets barbecued.
Pyro too has exhibited great if not greater and by far more impressive flame control. Now we're back to Johnny being able to resist Pyros psionic power you say he can I say he can't so we have reached an impasse
Nobody thinks that Pyro can beat him by throwing fire at HT, because an idiot can see that throwing fire at somebody on fire won't burn them, he can simply manipulate his body or use a fire attack that grabs and crushes
Although he must be in control of the flame to be immune to it he has a blanket of protection from his suit which has apparently always given him enough time to make himself immune to fire because he has never been burned, and he has the ability to manipulate all fire within at least 100 meters of himself he need only focus on the fire around him with his power and he won't be harmed by it.
HT can absorb fire and heat as well, but this won't make him stronger in this battle considering the fire and heat originates from him anyway.
He'll get slapped around by fire hands or his jet stream can be reversed causing him to crash into the ground breaking up his all to human body, the surest way for him to win is a nova blast and that is only contingent on Pyro sitting idly by as he performs this.
Originally posted by Acrosurge
Torch's powers haven't increased, only your awareness of them. 😉
I'm aware of his powers, that's why I refuse to believe for the sack of convenience he can now generate all manner of radiation given off by a star and that all of sudden he is the Magneto of fire and heat.
Originally posted by LordKaos
I'm aware of his powers, that's why I refuse to believe for the sack of convenience he can now generate all manner of radiation given off by a star and that all of sudden he is the Magneto of fire and heat.
I think I explained this before, but if you didn't catch it here it is again.
Fire only reaches a certain temperature (at the very hottest, I believe its approx 4000 degrees F). Therefore, the heat that Johnny releases at 1,000,000 degrees is not fire, but rather plasma or some other form of energy other than fire. For example, the material/substance that is released from the sun is plasma, not fire.
Pyro, so far as we know, does not have control over anything but fire. He has never manipulated anything in the vicinity of the temperatures that Johnny can reach. Thus, it is impossible to argue that he could control heat at temperatures in excess of 200,000, 500,000, or up to 1,000,000 degrees.
Originally posted by LordKaosI don't recall mentioning Magneto, but Torch has discharged pure heat and radiation on multiple occasions, rather than fire. I posted the issue numbers. Are you planning to ignore that for the sake of convenience?
I'm aware of his powers, that's why I refuse to believe for the sack of convenience he can now generate all manner of radiation given off by a star and that all of sudden he is the Magneto of fire and heat.
Pyro could still knock Johnny around with his constructs, but he has no defense against the other weapons Torch can bring here, besides fire.
Originally posted by nimbus006👆 that is why johnny lacks smoke exhaust.
I think I explained this before, but if you didn't catch it here it is again.Fire only reaches a certain temperature (at the very hottest, I believe its approx 4000 degrees F). Therefore, the heat that Johnny releases at 1,000,000 degrees is not fire, but rather plasma or some other form of energy other than fire. For example, the material/substance that is released from the sun is plasma, not fire.
Pyro, so far as we know, does not have control over anything but fire. He has never manipulated anything in the vicinity of the temperatures that Johnny can reach. Thus, it is impossible to argue that he could control heat at temperatures in excess of 200,000, 500,000, or up to 1,000,000 degrees.
when he fought she-hulk he vaped a bulldozer in mid-air within inches of touchong him, no fire can vaporize steel, only melt it over time.
Originally posted by Acrosurgewhat harm is that gonna do to johnny if pyro can control his flames ? HT can absorb fire pyro cant. pyro can only control fire with his powers. HT can burn pyros head off easy if he wanted to. HT can create his own flames doesnt need some stupid little flamethrower
I don't recall mentioning Magneto, but Torch has discharged pure heat and radiation on multiple occasions, rather than fire. I posted the issue numbers. Are you planning to ignore that for the sake of convenience?Pyro could still knock Johnny around with his constructs, but he has no defense against the other weapons Torch can bring here, besides fire.