Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Not by destruction. Vanquished means defeated, not destroyed. Evil must be smitten down because EVIL seeks to upset the balance that GOOD preserves. It is straightforward.
A very honest assessment.
Balance does not mean purging away of everything that can be the root of evil, as that is impossible. Balance means doing away with the entity that directly brings about evil, which was done when Vader sacrifices himself and destroys the Emperor, bringing down the Empire with him.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Oh geez, not more Grey Jedi gobbledigook. The whole 'Grey' thing has been made up by clueless fans who have entirely missed the point of what GL has been trying to say.The Light Side of the Force is GOOD. The Dark side is EVIL. There is nothing that can be at fault with the Light Side because it is the very representation of what good IS. Furthermore, Star Wars has an entirely Black and White morality- GL deliberately designed it that way. And Balance is served by the Good. That again is GL's word.
Using the Dark Side makes you evil. Full stop. No argument.
Incidentally, the Jedi serve the Republic because it is the right thing to do. And they are NOT mired in politics.
Adolescent hogwash. all of it. Any fan into 'Grey' stuff loses my respect immediately.
I say the same.
this balance that you guys have defined as the "vanquishing" of all evil will never be achieved. evil has always been around and it will always contiue to be around. where there is light there is shadow. and then there is the median.
and for those of you who dont belive me about the grey(which is prety much evrybody) heres a perfect example Qui Gon Jinn.
Qui-Gon Jinn: Greed can be a very powerful ally.
Obi-Wan: Don't defy the council, Master, not again.
Qui-Gon Jinn: I will do what I must, Obi-Wan.
Qui-Gon Jinn: Finding him was the will of the force, I have no doubt of that
like i said before those are just names, to the rest of the galaxy they are the same hence the name "jedi civil war," not light vs dark war or jedi vs sith war. and the reason the grey are jedi is because they reisde in the jedi temple.
and im not saying qui gon had a little dark in him. as a matter of fact i never said any grey jedi had dark in them. go back and read the topic post plz.the grey jedi dont see things in terms of light and dark there is only the force
and plz before anyone else compares the grey jedi to the dark side plz go back and read the topic post.
what im trying to get people to undertsand is that there is a median, the force does not take sides. the grey jedi operate outside of the council doing the will of the force hence qui gon jinn, i shall do what i must hence qui gon jinn for the will fo the force. as a maverick he wnet against the council many times. as a grey jedi wuld most likely do. to them the council and the republic are secondary to serving the force.
like it said in my original post, if the force cares for anything it is balance. in episode 1 the council wuld not allow anakin's training but qui gon persisted anyway believing him to be the chosen who wuld bring balance
quote: finding him was the will of the force
a grey jedi wuld do exactly what he did to bring balance to the force. even if it did undermine the council.
and for the last time dammit there is not just light and dark plz stop looking at it that way.
why do you think the jedi are so anal about controlling ur passions and anger and fear in such. because even as a lightside jedi u still have the potential for a dark path even as a sith u have the potential for "redemption." the capacity for light and dark is in all of us but that dosent determine who we are at the core. and thats the grey part. when you get past the titles(jedi and sith) and the light and dark classifications
those dont determine who you are at the core or as a whole. the lightside dosent dtermine ur actions no more than the darkside does. neither of them do. because ur not born being light or dark, good or bad. who we are is determined by our actions and who we react to them. people are incapable of doing all good or bad.
Jedi master Dooku made a horrible mistake by choosing to ambush the mandalorians at the battle of galidraan which nearly massacerd the enitre mandalorian ranks.he said himself it was a mistake and shuld have been carried through
typically the stereotype of a sith is ruthless and without mercy but there were many times over history where the sith showed mercy to their own ranks.
Palpatine was willing to help anakin save padme jus get him on his side. when you think about it palpatine didnt really need anakin that much, he was an extremly powerful ally but he culd have issued order 66 at any given time, the jedi numbers were dwindled anyway. and count dooku had he been trying culd have killed both anakin and obiwan.
(dont argue with me on this one because it's in the ROTS book)
I agree with you calladus, In kotor II kreia talks about this extensively about how sith and jedi are waged in an eternal battle between good and evil, both sides trying to overcome the other when it is really just the force balancing itself out. Kreia viewed the force as manipulator that causes untold suffering and chaos just to sate its need for balace.
I dont know if that is true as the movies always view the force as a inherently good thing however people generally view nature as a good thing as well but few really understand how evil nature can be. Either way its obvious the jedi and sith are in a constant game with eachother and the grey jedi goes beyond that, people like kreia,jolee,qui-gon Ive always thought to have a clearer view on things than say somone from the jedi council. This is proven when in the ROTS novelization yoda submits to qui-gon as his apprentice and calls him a much wiser jedi than himself.
Originally posted by Great Vengeance
I agree with you calladus, In kotor II kreia talks about this extensively about how sith and jedi are waged in an eternal battle between good and evil, both sides trying to overcome the other when it is really just the force balancing itself out. Kreia viewed the force as manipulator that causes untold suffering and chaos just to sate its need for balace.I dont know if that is true as the movies always view the force as a inherently good thing however people generally view nature as a good thing as well but few really understand how evil nature can be. Either way its obvious the jedi and sith are in a constant game with eachother and the grey jedi goes beyond that, people like kreia,jolee,qui-gon Ive always thought to have a clearer view on things than say somone from the jedi council. This is proven when in the ROTS novelization yoda submits to qui-gon as his apprentice and calls him a much wiser jedi than himself.
You are wrong, they are grey in a way but they are still on their side.
Ultimately Kreia was never on the lightside she did what she thought she had to do.
Jolee made a very clear choice for the lightside when Revan went Dark, and QGJ was far from Dark.
Not listening to the council and not doing being a Sith does not mean you are grey or a dark Jedi, you are still on the light or the dark side, the only difference is how you think about things.
Jolee for instance would never let evil come to some places, he would stop it with all his power, but if something happened he would let them figure it out for themselves first. Only if they could not he would help. Thats not really grey. He just thinks of the people and does what he thinks is best, and that ussually means letting people figure it out for themselves.
Jolee realises the weakness in the two sides, but he has made a very clear choice for the light side. Just not the Jedi.
IIIIIIIII dont know about that 3rd statement cuz like i said a thousand times arleady there isnt jus light or dark. the grey jedi wuld do anything for the force even if it meant playing witht the darkside somewhat or trying to keep the peace in the situation, it dosnet matter to them as long as the outcome is what the force wants. and kreia is great exmaple of a grey jedi even though her true motives were fanatic. you need to actually listen to her teachings their not light or dark because they stem from both sides while taking neither. as ur teacher she is what its like to take lessons from a gery jedi.
One who cares not for the darkside or the light, because what are really serving, what is the real source of our power? (Hint:not the lightside or dark side)
"There must always be a Darth Traya" - Kreia
She basically admitted to being Dark, she was following the Dark Side. Look IRL you are right but no in Star Wars.
There is a light side - good
And a Dark Side - Bad
There are some people who want to do good things by being bad (Revan for instance) They are still DS, even if they eventually make things better. There is no such thing as a LS where you kill people in SW. There just isn't, there isn't any bigger logic behind it, thats just how it is.
It does not matter what powers you have - buthow you choose to use them! And there are only two choices - for Good or for Evil. I think that any Jedi serves the principles of the Force, but through their alliance with the Repulic they hoped to influence those in charge - and by influencing the boss, you could influence the ones servig. It may seem things are sometimes grey, but in reality, they are black and white - because the fundemantal powers are Good and Evil, Jedi and Sith.
Kreia was a Sith from the very begining. Her terachings are deceiving attempts of turning the exile to the Dark Side. (failed with me)
Qui-Gon is not grey, he is just wise, open-minded. (yes, even among the Jedi one can find less-wise individuals)
Of course Jedi have evil in them, just as Sith have good - just as any sentient is expected to. It depends on the amount of Good or Evil in one person for him to be qualified as Good or Evil.
What I mean is that Good and Evil are THE two fundemantal powers which shape our existence - Good creates, Evil destroys, then Good recreates and so on and so forth giving way to progress with their conflict. The grey side has no part to play here... Balance can be reached in the dominion of Good, when all scores are settled within somebody, when that person is at peace with himself - villains are always restless, unhappy because of their many dark traits - greed, lust, envy - which always leave them wanting more. Therefore they cannot find their balace unless they redeem themselves.
However, there is no such thing as absolute Good or Evil, but as an overview over the situation, things are Black and White - not absolutely, but because of peoples`choices which can diminuish or enlarge their malevolent or benevolet nature.
you guys have said that dark upsets the balance and good fights to restor it but with out that fight there would be no balance bad things happen in this world because good things happen for there to be good there always has to be bad eg we fight to help save lifes our people die in that foght so tehre is always bad like there wil layways be good do you undertsand what i mean the grey jedi if they exist are the balance a neutral not bad or good do you guys/gals no what im getting at