All impressive but Phoenix has showed the power to contain the M'kraan crystal which creates an energy wave that destroys all realities so basically the multiverse. Phoenix under her own power contained this energy wave permanently. That is unicrons top claim to fame. That isnt Phoenix sole one. Phoenix also creates the multiverse, maintains it with her energies and goes on to destroy it all again. Theres nothing about Unicron that suggests he can destroy Phoenix.
Yeah but there is nothing that proves that Phoenix can destroy him but Unicron destroyed creation and survived outside of it. Plus where the M'kraan crystal failed Unicron was successfully. Plus the transformer Universe isn't part of Marvel so you can't count them as part of it.
Also Phoenix's biggest claim to fame is making creation. Unicron destroyed his plus existed outside of it and like I said many times before shows he is beyond creation. Plus he was able to create life showing his powers aren't above creation. You have yet to tell me why these aren't comparable to Phoneix.
Also the reason Phoenix can destroy creation is because she is apart of it meaning that destroying creation should be no problem but it would be interesting to see her try to detryo a creation she had nothing to do with could she do it since she doesn't have any power over it.
Plus you have never stated how Phoenix could win. what would she do blink Unicron out of creation he is beyond it remember. He could devour Phoenix though.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
All impressive but Phoenix has showed the power to contain the M'kraan crystal which creates an energy wave that destroys all realities so basically the multiverse. Phoenix under her own power contained this energy wave permanently. That is unicrons top claim to fame. That isnt Phoenix sole one. Phoenix also creates the multiverse, maintains it with her energies and goes on to destroy it all again. Theres nothing about Unicron that suggests he can destroy Phoenix.
As Uni can exist outside all creation, she can't do anything to destroy him either.
We are going in circles. Let's just declare this a stalemate.
What the hell...lets have them go into DC universe together and create havok! I'd like to see how dc handles these 2...lol They thought anti monitor gave them trouble!
after reading and I would have to say they are equal, here is 2 more history sites to look at.
http://www.transformerscomic.com/content/timeline.html
http://www.starseeker.0catch.com/history.html
this also shows that Primacron is not really Unicrons creator, only was used by Unicron for what he wanted. and why are ppl saying Unicron was winning against Primus?? he was not killing him or hurting him, the fight that both of them was having was destroying everything that Primus was trying to save, and thus that is why he tricked Unicron into going into the asteroids. this also shows that the universe that was here b4 the new 1 had beings that was powerful metaphysical beings all powerful, but they did NOT create that universe they was in, they was only what is LEFT OVER from the last universe. This also shows and makes us believe that there is a real God/Yahweh/The Presence/TOAA in Transformers but does not show himself at all but we get an idea what he is like because he made the particles left over from what was left over from the universe that Unicron destroyed (they just can't come together for no reason and that reason must be because God made them come together) and created the new universe that is here now and it created a protector Primus, also having Unicron in the new universe, the universe itself would learn and make itself a protector from the Destroyer/Unicron so it can protect itself from him. Also Imperiex Prime is very much like Unicron since they both have destroyed there respected universes before. But anyhow does that sound right what i said how the universe came to be? 😄
Originally posted by kevdude
after reading and I would have to say they are equal, here is 2 more history sites to look at.
http://www.transformerscomic.com/content/timeline.html
http://www.starseeker.0catch.com/history.htmlthis also shows that Primacron is not really Unicrons creator, only was used by Unicron for what he wanted. and why are ppl saying Unicron was winning against Primus?? he was not killing him or hurting him, the fight that both of them was having was destroying everything that Primus was trying to save, and thus that is why he tricked Unicron into going into the asteroids. this also shows that the universe that was here b4 the new 1 had beings that was powerful metaphysical beings all powerful, but they did NOT create that universe they was in, they was only what is LEFT OVER from the last universe. This also shows and makes us believe that there is a real God/Yahweh/The Presence/TOAA in Transformers but does not show himself at all but we get an idea what he is like because he made the particles left over from what was left over from the universe that Unicron destroyed (they just can't come together for no reason and that reason must be because God made them come together) and created the new universe that is here now and it created a protector Primus, also having Unicron in the new universe, the universe itself would learn and make itself a protector from the Destroyer/Unicron so it can protect itself from him. Also Imperiex Prime is very much like Unicron since they both have destroyed there respected universes before. But anyhow does that sound right what i said how the universe came to be? 😄
You know what I feel that I have taken everything you guys have thrown at me now I have taken the Phoenix's feats and have given Unicron's feats which I think no one has disproven or has given any reason as to why they wouldn't be comparable.
In case you have forgotten the feats I have listed then here they are:
Unicron destroyed Creation
He survived outside of it showing he is beyond creation
He also showed that his powers aren't beyond making creation because he made life a few times.
No one has given any reasons why these aren't comparable in showing he is in the Phoenix's league.
Now I will begin my reasons as to why I feel that Unicron has a better chance of winning then Phoenix.
First I will say that how will the Phoenix hurt Unicron. She has only shown the power to make Creation she has destroyed it as well but since it is a part of her it really isn't that big a feat seeing how she made it. I still would like to see how she fairs trying to destroy someone else's creation one she isn't apart of. Back on topic though outside of Creation she has never shown any influence she has never been able to do anything outside of her Creation. So I far as I can see the only real attack she has on Unicron is trying to blink him out of Creation which Unicron has already shown he is beyond so it wouldn't matter but you guys have given me the real treat here.
GalacticStorm:But Phoenix is Creation it is apart of her.
Unicron has shown the ability to to devour the energies that make up Creation meaning that he has already devoured the same forces that make Phoenix which means that he can devour the Phoenix.
The best example i can come up in my head on this matter is Colossus vs Magento not the godly one. Both are powerful Mutants both have great feats and can be argued to be equal somewhat in power but who is going to win the fight. Magento has the power to control the thing that makes Colossus so strong. Just like Unicron can Devour the very thing that is Phoenix. Try and find illogic in my reasoning because you can't and please don't try and attack the Magneto Colossus idea because it an example used to convey my point.
Originally posted by newjak86
You know what I feel that I have taken everything you guys have thrown at me now I have taken the Phoenix's feats and have given Unicron's feats which I think no one has disproven or has given any reason as to why they wouldn't be comparable.
In case you have forgotten the feats I have listed then here they are:
Unicron destroyed Creation
He survived outside of it showing he is beyond creation
He also showed that his powers aren't beyond making creation because he made life a few times.
No one has given any reasons why these aren't comparable in showing he is in the Phoenix's league.
Now I will begin my reasons as to why I feel that Unicron has a better chance of winning then Phoenix.
First I will say that how will the Phoenix hurt Unicron. She has only shown the power to make Creation she has destroyed it as well but since it is a part of her it really isn't that big a feat seeing how she made it. I still would like to see how she fairs trying to destroy someone else's creation one she isn't apart of. Back on topic though outside of Creation she has never shown any influence she has never been able to do anything outside of her Creation. So I far as I can see the only real attack she has on Unicron is trying to blink him out of Creation which Unicron has already shown he is beyond so it wouldn't matter but you guys have given me the real treat here.
GalacticStorm:But Phoenix is Creation it is apart of her.
Unicron has shown the ability to to devour the energies that make up Creation meaning that he has already devoured the same forces that make Phoenix which means that he can devour the Phoenix.
The best example i can come up in my head on this matter is Colossus vs Magento not the godly one. Both are powerful Mutants both have great feats and can be argued to be equal somewhat in power but who is going to win the fight. Magento has the power to control the thing that makes Colossus so strong. Just like Unicron can Devour the very thing that is Phoenix. Try and find illogic in my reasoning because you can't and please don't try and attack the Magneto Colossus idea because it an example used to convey my point.
DAMNED GOOD POST!!
someone's been coming out of their shell eh?
Originally posted by newjak86
You know what I feel that I have taken everything you guys have thrown at me now I have taken the Phoenix's feats and have given Unicron's feats which I think no one has disproven or has given any reason as to why they wouldn't be comparable.
In case you have forgotten the feats I have listed then here they are:
Unicron destroyed Creation
He survived outside of it showing he is beyond creation
He also showed that his powers aren't beyond making creation because he made life a few times.
No one has given any reasons why these aren't comparable in showing he is in the Phoenix's league.
Now I will begin my reasons as to why I feel that Unicron has a better chance of winning then Phoenix.
First I will say that how will the Phoenix hurt Unicron. She has only shown the power to make Creation she has destroyed it as well but since it is a part of her it really isn't that big a feat seeing how she made it. I still would like to see how she fairs trying to destroy someone else's creation one she isn't apart of. Back on topic though outside of Creation she has never shown any influence she has never been able to do anything outside of her Creation. So I far as I can see the only real attack she has on Unicron is trying to blink him out of Creation which Unicron has already shown he is beyond so it wouldn't matter but you guys have given me the real treat here.
GalacticStorm:But Phoenix is Creation it is apart of her.
Unicron has shown the ability to to devour the energies that make up Creation meaning that he has already devoured the same forces that make Phoenix which means that he can devour the Phoenix.
The best example i can come up in my head on this matter is Colossus vs Magento not the godly one. Both are powerful Mutants both have great feats and can be argued to be equal somewhat in power but who is going to win the fight. Magento has the power to control the thing that makes Colossus so strong. Just like Unicron can Devour the very thing that is Phoenix. Try and find illogic in my reasoning because you can't and please don't try and attack the Magneto Colossus idea because it an example used to convey my point.
Getting better and better.
Go Newjak!! 💃
Originally posted by newjak86
You know what I feel that I have taken everything you guys have thrown at me now I have taken the Phoenix's feats and have given Unicron's feats which I think no one has disproven or has given any reason as to why they wouldn't be comparable.
In case you have forgotten the feats I have listed then here they are:
Unicron destroyed Creation
He survived outside of it showing he is beyond creation
He also showed that his powers aren't beyond making creation because he made life a few times.
No one has given any reasons why these aren't comparable in showing he is in the Phoenix's league.
Now I will begin my reasons as to why I feel that Unicron has a better chance of winning then Phoenix.
First I will say that how will the Phoenix hurt Unicron. She has only shown the power to make Creation she has destroyed it as well but since it is a part of her it really isn't that big a feat seeing how she made it. I still would like to see how she fairs trying to destroy someone else's creation one she isn't apart of. Back on topic though outside of Creation she has never shown any influence she has never been able to do anything outside of her Creation. So I far as I can see the only real attack she has on Unicron is trying to blink him out of Creation which Unicron has already shown he is beyond so it wouldn't matter but you guys have given me the real treat here.
GalacticStorm:But Phoenix is Creation it is apart of her.
Unicron has shown the ability to to devour the energies that make up Creation meaning that he has already devoured the same forces that make Phoenix which means that he can devour the Phoenix.
The best example i can come up in my head on this matter is Colossus vs Magento not the godly one. Both are powerful Mutants both have great feats and can be argued to be equal somewhat in power but who is going to win the fight. Magento has the power to control the thing that makes Colossus so strong. Just like Unicron can Devour the very thing that is Phoenix. Try and find illogic in my reasoning because you can't and please don't try and attack the Magneto Colossus idea because it an example used to convey my point.
*starts counting out Pheonix*
1!!!!!
2!!!!!
3!!!!!
4!!!!!......
Originally posted by newjak86
You know what I feel that I have taken everything you guys have thrown at me now I have taken the Phoenix's feats and have given Unicron's feats which I think no one has disproven or has given any reason as to why they wouldn't be comparable.
In case you have forgotten the feats I have listed then here they are:
Unicron destroyed Creation
He survived outside of it showing he is beyond creation
He also showed that his powers aren't beyond making creation because he made life a few times.
No one has given any reasons why these aren't comparable in showing he is in the Phoenix's league.
Now I will begin my reasons as to why I feel that Unicron has a better chance of winning then Phoenix.
First I will say that how will the Phoenix hurt Unicron. She has only shown the power to make Creation she has destroyed it as well but since it is a part of her it really isn't that big a feat seeing how she made it. I still would like to see how she fairs trying to destroy someone else's creation one she isn't apart of. Back on topic though outside of Creation she has never shown any influence she has never been able to do anything outside of her Creation. So I far as I can see the only real attack she has on Unicron is trying to blink him out of Creation which Unicron has already shown he is beyond so it wouldn't matter but you guys have given me the real treat here.
GalacticStorm:But Phoenix is Creation it is apart of her.
Unicron has shown the ability to to devour the energies that make up Creation meaning that he has already devoured the same forces that make Phoenix which means that he can devour the Phoenix.
The best example i can come up in my head on this matter is Colossus vs Magento not the godly one. Both are powerful Mutants both have great feats and can be argued to be equal somewhat in power but who is going to win the fight. Magento has the power to control the thing that makes Colossus so strong. Just like Unicron can Devour the very thing that is Phoenix. Try and find illogic in my reasoning because you can't and please don't try and attack the Magneto Colossus idea because it an example used to convey my point.
I haven't really gotten involved in this thread because after all the recent phoenix threads ive just had enough of repeating the same things every month to new posters so i really couldnt be bothered. This post was a good attempt NewJack but still flawed and that fact along with the comments of others who should know better by now which has motivated me into saying something. Allow me to break it down for you.
Unicron destroyed a universe as stated by yourself. A universe does not equal creation im afraid. Destroying a universe results in nothingmess it does not make you beyond creation. To be beyond creation unicron would have had to have been either in the white hot room (marvel) or heaven. (dc) He was in neither. Unicron was still in creation but he survived in the nothingness that was a result of his destruction of the universe.
Unicron never made life, he resurrected someone. Theres a difference. When Unicron makes brand new life from scratch then you can have that point in your case, as of now it is withdrawn.
None of those things are reasons why unicron is comparable to Phoenix. Phoenix existst beyond creation within the white hot room. Out of nothing phoenix begins creation, phoenixes essence supports life, is one with life. Life is dependent on phoenix not the other way around id like to point out NJ if that was the case then dont you think it would be a tiny bit problematic when phoenix has to destroy all of creation as her god given role? Phoenix then goes on to end the multiverse resulting in nothingness. Phoenix then returns to the white hot room beyond creation. Phoenix achieves cyclically unicrons greatest claim to fame except she actually exits creation afterwards and she doesnt crash out for a few million years afterwards.
Phoenix will hurt Unicron because as aforementioned unicron fears the power behind creation, phoenix is the primal force of creation.Ok?
Phoenix possesses telekinetic godhood which gives her power over all matter, reality, time and space down to a molecular level. It is the ultimate power her consciousness permeates all. Destroying a universe happens every few months in comics im really not impressed by unicron. Any half decent cosmic could do that. Im betting there wasnt a load of cosmic beings akin to marvels abstracts to oppose him either? His feat is now seeming less and less impressive by the minute. Destrying it just doesnt say much and for obvious reasons.
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""She has only shown the power to make Creation she has destroyed it as well but since it is a part of her it really isn't that big a feat seeing how she made it. I still would like to see how she fairs trying to destroy someone else's creation one she isn't apart of
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Only shown? Ummmm well thats just about the biggest feat you can get short of being the supreme being. Plus when you factor in its done cyclically. Destroying the universe just pales in comparison. By your logic Magneto destroying his space station Asteroid M isnt as big a feat as the Xmen doing it instead just because he made it? Either way Phoenix does it cyclically Unicrons done it as a one off and was exhausted for millions of years. Id like to see how unicron fares destroying Marvel creation with its trillions of cosmic beings and living universes who can actually fight back.
Actually NJ from outside creation in the comfort of her penthouse in the white hot room, phoenix rearranged a universe molecule by molecule in terms of its space and time. She telekinetically amputated a whole future and stitched up the injured universe left behind. That is ultimate power just try and fathom working with all of those molecules telekinetically. Do you see how laughable it is to compare simply blowing up a universe. Phoenix from the white hot room sees universes as insignificant spheres of energy which she can hold in her hand.
It is Unicron who has never displayed powers beyond creation. Blowing up the universe around you does not place you outside of creation, it just leaves you amidst nothingness. Thanos ansorbed the universe in The End and was left in nothingness. Thanos like unicron was, was still in creation. In a What If i believe even Galactus has let his hunger spiral out of control and he absorbed all of the universe. Galactus is Galctus because Phoenix allowed him to be so.
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""Unicron has shown the ability to to devour the energies that make up Creation meaning that he has already devoured the same forces that make Phoenix which means that he can devour the Phoenix.
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You've misunderstood. Phoenix makes creation, creation doesnt make phoenix. Phoenix is one with creation because she made it, Unicron absorbing energies from a universve does not mean that he would be able to absorb Phoenix. Phoenix cannot die it reprsents life, death and rebirth.
Your parallel of Unicron and Magneto is very flawed. Unicron destroyed a universe he blew his way through it and absorbed its energies. There is no control, no suggestion of high level energy manipulation that is more akin to colossus. Phoenix is the one more akin to magneto with her telekinetic godhood and manipulation of matter, energy time, space and reality down to a molecular level. Phoenix is the one who manipulates amtter and energy to create the multiverse. Blowing through it is no comparison.
Having ability to absorb energy isnt unique to unicron NJ. Bishop can absorb and siphon outside sources of energy for various empowering effects but that doesnt leave him immune to the powers of energy wielders manipulators.
At the end of the day, unicron destroyed a universe leaving nothingness. He wasnt outside of creation because he never moved himself to another plane of existence he just destroyed and consumed everything around him. That is Unicrons greatest claim to fame and thats it. Thats impressive but its no comparison to phoenix who does that cyclically while also being responsible for making the multiverse and maintaining it. Destroying something is not as impressive or as high level as being responsible for the creation of that same thing. How do you know Unicron even has powers to give life or to manipulate matter at such a high level and over such a vast area. Phoenix looks upon creation from the white hot room from the outside and sees the entire multiverse from there, she can see all timelines and reality and further still manipulate it from there. There have been crossovers where Phoenixes powers have worked just fine. What you need to remember is what you say for Phoenix easily reverts back to Unicron. Could Unicron take on the abstracts of each universe in the Marvel multiverse?
From what i can see Phoenix wins this and its not hard to see why. As aforementioned a better versus match to do would be Vs Anti-Monitor who also absorbed most of his creation but was stopped at the last hurdle.
Very good post but unfortunately for you it is placed on one idea that Unicron detroyed a universe instead of Creation which is false because Unicron was stated as destroying everything meaning everything not just the universe but Creation itslef this was meant as a qiuck responseto your post a more in depth one is on it's way. i just am in th middle of a few things and don't have the time to make a long reply which is what is needed.
Originally posted by newjak86
Very good post but unfortunately for you it is placed on one idea that Unicron detroyed a universe instead of Creation which is false because Unicron was stated as destroying everything meaning everything not just the universe but Creation itslef this was meant as a qiuck responseto your post a more in depth one is on it's way. i just am in th middle of a few things and don't have the time to make a long reply which is what is needed.
You've said it was a multiverse and a universe multiple times on this thread so i made sure everything i said applied to both. Whether it was a multiverse or a universe it doesnt matter the destruction of it is simply no comparison, especially when he slept for millions of yers after that effort, which shows it was increadibly taxing on him, Unicron was still within creation because he didnt transcend to another plane of existence he just ate everything around him leaving nothing, and also where has he displayed energy and matter manipulation powers as high level and far reaching as phoenix? He hasnt. Phoenix exists beyond creation yet she still empowers it, and still is its beginning and end. Unicron ate his multivers/universe as a one off. Resurrection is very different from creating life. Unicron fears the power of creation. Thtas really it. He's impressive but he doesnt take this.