Star Trek versus Star Wars: The Debate is Opened

Originally posted by dadudemon
No...you missed the point...have you been hanging out with Czarina?

The point was...

In one episode, the Borg do not notice Data, in more than one episode, they notice Data...hmmmm...sounds like poor writing to me.....maybe...it ....is ....for....entertainment? Badda boom badda bing. I'm right....nya nya nya nya nya!!!! 😛 😄

Good point....but how could you control the hive mind? Wouldn't that be impossible for one person to do?

Edit-I see that Da Pittman has already addressed that.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No...you missed the point...have you been hanging out with Czarina?

The point was...

In one episode, the Borg do not notice Data, in more than one episode, they notice Data...hmmmm...sounds like poor writing to me.....maybe...it ....is ....for....entertainment? Badda boom badda bing. I'm right....nya nya nya nya nya!!!! 😛 😄

that doesn't make any sense. what the hell does Data have to do with anything in the over all scheme of this conversation?

Of course it's all for entertainment. That is why I am a fan of both. I like both, very much. Sure, I like Star Wars more, but that isn't the reason for my opinion that the Borg are of little threat to the Empire.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Good point....but how could you control the hive mind? Wouldn't that be impossible for one person to do?

Edit-I see that Da Pittman has already addressed that.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
I really can’t see them using the force to take over the Borg hive mind, any Jedi I would think wouldn’t have the power to do that to trillions of minds and the speed in which they process information would crush any living mind.

The Emperor apparently was in contact with every pilot and solider in the Empire, directing their actions.

And you don't have to control trillions of minds. You only have to control one. The Queen.

unless you're going to make the point that Borg aren't alive. Which isn't true.

Originally posted by Devil King
that doesn't make any sense. what the hell does Data have to do with anything in the over all scheme of this conversation?

Of course it's all for entertainment. That is why I am a fan of both. I like both, very much. Sure, I like Star Wars more, but that isn't the reason for my opinion that the Borg are of little threat to the Empire.

Uhh....you introduced that idea...not me. I countered that idea of yours by nulling the entire point of the whole convesation by presenting obvious loop holes in the story AND Data's specific interaction with the Borg.

Pittman introduced something new with the fact that they did notice Data and rated him based on a threat scale.

Originally posted by Devil King
The Emperor apparently was in contact with every pilot and solider in the Empire, directing their actions.

And you don't have to control trillions of minds. You only have to control one. The Queen.

unless you're going to make the point that Borg aren't alive. Which isn't true.

I don't understand why the Borg couldn't adapt to species 8472's biology...it just doesn't make sense. There are so many things that don't make sense in the Star Trek universe (and probably in the Star Wars Universe) and I just concede the fact that it is for entertainment.

Originally posted by Devil King
Besides, you all know the Borg queen would have a major crush on Darth Vader.

Does Vader have a penis, or did he lose that too in the lava?

Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't understand why the Borg couldn't adapt to species 8472's biology...it just doesn't make sense. There are so many things that don't make sense in the Star Trek universe (and probably in the Star Wars Universe) and I just concede the fact that it is for entertainment.

That was explained simply enough, they were from a different dimension; it was so alien to "ours" that the Borg couldn't adapt and conquer. Also physically, they were evolved beyond anything in "our" dimension.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Uhh....you introduced that idea...not me. I countered that idea of yours by nulling the entire point of the whole convesation by presenting obvious loop holes in the story AND Data's specific interaction with the Borg.

Pittman introduced something new with the fact that they did notice Data and rated him based on a threat scale.

I said Data put them to sleep. I never said they were put to sleep because it was Data that did it. In fact, it was Captain Picard that figured out they could be beaten by being put to sleep.

The only point I made, and it's one you've yet to counter, was that they are of no significant threat to the Empire. This lack of any significant threat is made even more plausible because they're all one mind; the Queen's.

Oh, and that it's all for entertainment purposes. A point with which I agree. But that isn't stopping either of us from arguing our points.

Originally posted by Robtard
Does Vader have a penis, or did he lose that too in the lava?

Growing up I never thought it survived the lava. But in EP3 he has pants on when the Emperor (who never would have gone to rescue him personally) saves him on Mustafar.

But, it's a good question, because the Borg queen acts like a nympho.

Originally posted by Devil King
I said Data put them to sleep. I never said they were put to sleep because it was Data that did it. In fact, it was Captain Picard that figured out they could be beaten by being put to sleep.

The only point I made, and it's one you've yet to counter, was that they are of no significant threat to the Empire. This lack of any significant threat is made even more plausible because they're all one mind; the Queen's.

Oh, and that it's all for entertainment purposes. A point with which I agree. But that isn't stopping either of us from arguing our points.

Their biggest Borg strength is adaptability and making others technology their own. Imagine a Borg assimilated Super Star Destroyer or an assimilated Death Star. The one tide turner is "The Force" and how it can be used on a wide scale in space battle. How many proficient "Force users" are there in the Empire? Just the Emp and Vader?

Which was addressed in 'Heir to the Empire'.

Originally posted by Devil King
Which was addressed in 'Heir to the Empire'.

I like the movies a lot, but I don't know much beyond that. So I am at a loss.

The Emperor, through the Force, was personally responsible for a great many of the battles fought and won by his troops.

I, personally, don't think that should have been included in the story...but it's there.

Originally posted by Devil King
The Emperor, through the Force, was personally responsible for a great many of the battles fought and won by his troops.

I, personally, don't think that should have been included in the story...but it's there.

I take it this is EU? If so; from what I heard so far, it seems lame. As Schector pointed out, it should probably be left out of the debate, otherwise the Empire could take snuff out all life in the universe with a thought. Not much fun in that.

Edit:

It would be like using Riker when he was "Q" powered, in that one lame episode.

Most EU is crap. This is why I'm unfamiliar with the majority of EU material. But I think the Heir to the Empire trilogy was very well written, and it serves as a third trilogy in the saga for me. But they're pretty much it as far as books. Most of the other's I've tried to read have been terrible, so I stopped reading EU a while ago. (after I saw Ep1, in fact)

But the bad part about leaving out the stuff from the EU, is that ST has so much more to drawn upon in a debate like this. And how much of ST is cannon and how much is not?

It's things like this that keep me out of debates like this one. Typically.

Originally posted by Devil King
Most EU is crap. This is why I'm unfamiliar with the majority of EU material. But I think the Heir to the Empire trilogy was very well written, and it serves as a third trilogy in the saga for me. But they're pretty much it as far as books. Most of the other's I've tried to read have been terrible, so I stopped reading EU a while ago. (after I saw Ep1, in fact)

Jar Jar Binks saying "Otay" killed it for me.

it was George Lucas and his team of 'yes men' that killed it for everyone.

GL got way too full of himself. And I think it would have happened to anyone that had as much smoke blown up his ass as GL has over the years.

The bad part, is that everyone thinks the movies are flat and emotionless. And while they are, it isn't because of no back thought being put into the movies (or teh stories) it's because there was too much thought put into it. That's why the movies don't fit with the original trilogy. To explain everything that needed to be explained, the movies would have to have been 4 hours long, each!

Originally posted by Robtard
That was explained simply enough, they were from a different dimension; it was so alien to "ours" that the Borg couldn't adapt and conquer. Also physically, they were evolved beyond anything in "our" dimension.

So you are telling me that the computers used by the borg were not powerful enough to calculate what was needed to assimilate a species that had a genetic complexity 100 times that of a human? But yet, the good old holographic doctor and Seven of Nine could think of something that the entire Hive mind couldn't? Sounds pretty damned illogical to me.

In other words, the writers were just writing a story for entertainment...not to be logical.

Originally posted by dadudemon
So you are telling me that the computers used by the borg were not powerful enough to calculate what was needed to assimilate a species that had a genetic complexity 100 times that of a human? But yet, the good old holographic doctor and Seven of Nine could think of something that the entire Hive mind couldn't? Sounds pretty damned illogical to me.

In other words, the writers were just writing a story for entertainment...not to be logical.

I don't recall, what did the Doc and Seven do in terms of "assimilatng" them? From what I understood, the biology simply wasn't compatible to the Borg... being that there from a different dimension, it would seem plausible.

Originally posted by Robtard
I don't recall, what did the Doc and Seven do in terms of "assimilatng" them?

He has a point. But then again, it IS just a TV show. 😂

Originally posted by Robtard
I don't recall, what did the Doc and Seven do in terms of "assimilatng" them? From what I understood, the biology simply wasn't compatible to the Borg... being that there from a different dimension, it would seem plausible.

Originally posted by Devil King
it was George Lucas and his team of 'yes men' that killed it for everyone.

GL got way too full of himself. And I think it would have happened to anyone that had as much smoke blown up his ass as GL has over the years.

The bad part, is that everyone thinks the movies are flat and emotionless. And while they are, it isn't because of no back thought being put into the movies (or teh stories) it's because there was [b]too much thought put into it. That's why the movies don't fit with the original trilogy. To explain everything that needed to be explained, the movies would have to have been 4 hours long, each! [/B]

I don't have a problem with the movies being "flat and emotionless", I especially like AOTC. My complaints are mainly with them being too kid friendly in a lollipop and gumball sort of way. Same reason I like ROTJ the least out of the original 3 films, Ewoks and their silly cuteness killed it. C3PO is another problem for me, his "comic relief" gets annoying throughout the films.