Yeah it was around 30 thousand(ish). Well if he didn't need them they why did the dude even bother releasing?
You know Rukia should've been dead by the time Zommari showed up...still pissed about that.
The sunlight thing was pretty stupid. It only dissolved his disguising powers which he still could've used just by moving into some shade or something.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Yeah it was around 30 thousand(ish). Well if he didn't need them they why did the dude even bother releasing?You know Rukia should've been dead by the time Zommari showed up...still pissed about that.
The sunlight thing was pretty stupid. It only dissolved his disguising powers which he still could've used just by moving into some shade or something.
To prove Rukia wrong about his power being transformation. ^^
Yeah, I can't deny that. Though Chad not being dead after he ran into Nnoritora was more idiotic. But she's my favorite so I guess I wasn't too mad all things considered.
Yeah. Trying to build the Espada up to be threats but one of them is weak too sunlight? Lame.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I have no idea what you're talking about on the last part: she was held back for years by Byakuya because he feared losing her. She was a 5th seat...but most likely closer to a 3rd of 2nd seat in ability. She is not lieutenant level, however. (She may be, now)
She was unseated entirely. That is, you know that random chump bragging to Orihime about being, like, 15th seat? He technically outranked her. That's purely technically and not power, though. (Btw, a Lt is a second seat)
And she's shown more power and skill than many Lts. One-shotting an Arrancar and all that. Good kido too... she should've gone for the kill back when she hit fakeKaien with the Immobilizing Rods.
wakkawakkawakka
Meh...I guess. But her 3rd Dance was a bit of an asspull since it can't really be used efficiently in battle.
I think it also ices up the area stabbed.
Originally posted by Q99
She was unseated entirely. That is, you know that random chump bragging to Orihime about being, like, 15th seat? He technically outranked her. That's purely technically and not power, though. (Btw, a Lt is a second seat)
You're absolutely right.
She was not seated and second seat is lieutenant. I new that "5th seat" felt off. I was thinking of Yumichika Ayasegawa. No, I'm not joking: they remind me of each other in appearance at the most subtle places in my mind.
Originally posted by Q99
And she's shown more power and skill than many Lts. One-shotting an Arrancar and all that. Good kido too... she should've gone for the kill back when she hit fakeKaien with the Immobilizing Rods.
With the exception of the 11th division, I agree. 😄
I would put Renji well above her, though. (in the past and now, apparently).
Here is my list of former and current Lieutenants that would be better than she is (could beat her or are the overall more powerful shinigami)
Hachigen Ushôda
Yachiru Kusajishi (she's strong enough to scare Ikkaku..who is one of the strongest non-captains in SS (see chapter 197)).
Rangiku Matsumoto (Simply due to the versatility of her sword..she's also quite strong and fast (chapter 210)
Shûhei Hisagi (One of the most proficient swordsman at the lieutenant level...very fast and has knowledge of Kido on par with Rukia)
Shûhei Hisagi (One of the stronger Lts. is fairly equal to Ikkaku who is stronger than most Lts.)
Renji Abarai (Easily the strongest lieutenant.)
Izuru Kira (One of the stronger lieutenants)
Chôjirô Sasakibe (A guess...only because his boss is the strongest Shinigami in SS).
Rukia is proficient in Kido but to what extent, I am not sure. I would say Momo is the best non-captain at Kido. Rukia said she was "average" among the Gotei squads at Kido. http://www.mangareader.net/94-722-8/bleach/chapter-268.html
But she likely improved since her days training with her crush. (lol)
She is decent with her sword but among the lowest among the lts (from what we can tell...she may have vastly improved like Renji...asssspulled, but it still counts).
I would say Rukia's strengths are her speed and intelligence. She pales next to shinigami like Renji or Hisagi.
What I want is a lieutenant databook ranking. 😄
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Ichigo pwned him in like a second. Can't be that strong.
Ichigo was well into the captain level, by that point, though. He was strong level captain before his bankai training. He had to have been upper tier level captain by the time he got down. That would make any lieutenant look like a chump.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
He's not a Lt. anymore, so he dun count.
**** the Vaizards.
Yes he does count because I said he does for my comparison. I was using the "former" levels, though...which does not matter much because his former levels were still quite powerful
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I can't actually count Hachigen. The dude could probably beat most captains in a fight.Not that he is really a lieutenant anymore.
Edit: Come to think of it, I don't really like the Vizards. The only one I like is Hiyori. Ironically.
Who could he beat in a fight (out of the current captains)?
Hachigen- the only Lt vizard who looks to have progressed to Captain level in a hundred years.
With the exception of the 11th division, I agree.
11th division is broken ^^ Ikkaku is stronger than most of the Lts, and Yumichika's lt level as well.
I would put Renji well above her, though. (in the past and now, apparently).
I would say Renji's stronger, Rukia's more competent 🙂
Here is my list of former and current Lieutenants that would be better than she is (could beat her or are the overall more powerful shinigami)
Hm, that's a pretty good list. Can't say I disagree, save maybe the 1st company guy, who might just be a good organizer or something and not necessarily strong. The only fight we've seen him in is when Ichigo one-punched him after all.
Rukia is proficient in Kido but to what extent, I am not sure. I would say Momo is the best non-captain at Kido. Rukia said she was "average" among the Gotei squads at Kido.
At the time, yea, but that was before training with Kaien and so on. Still, pulling off stuff like 6-rods is pretty good. I'd say while a few are better still (Nanao I'd expect to be excellent as well), she's still probably in the top 3 or 4 in kido.
Originally posted by Q99
Hm, that's a pretty good list. Can't say I disagree, save maybe the 1st company guy, who might just be a good organizer or something and not necessarily strong. The only fight we've seen him in is when Ichigo one-punched him after all.
I duplicated a name. I don't know who the "extra" was supposed to be.
However, I Sasakibe may be someone I could remove from that list. I'm just not sure how strong that guy is.
Being one-shotted by Ichigo when he was on top of his game is not really a bad feat.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
My friend discovered today that I outright despise the 11th Division.For good reason I think. They're all stupid. Except for Pinky.
The 11th division is my favorite division. The 4th division is my second favorite.
I do not like how the successor for captain is chosen, however. I wish it was until "victory" ...not until death. Death should be a possibility, not an guarantee.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
My friend discovered today that I outright despise the 11th Division.For good reason I think. They're all stupid. Except for Pinky.
A lot of people in Bleach are stupid. At least their way of stupid is based on hitting people with swords rather than stupid honor things.
How is Renji's power an ass-pull? Keep in mind that the entirely of the souls society elite was helpless against Aizen. If it wasn't for Ichigo Aizen would've likely achieved his goal, or at the very least the 13 court guard squad would've failed. Now how does the realisation of that you're unworthy of your position as a high ranking officer not motivate you to improve?
Besides, I personally like the approach that maybe Ichigo won't have to fight all battles in the upcoming arc.
Originally posted by Astner
How is Renji's power an ass-pull? Keep in mind that the entirely of the souls society elite was helpless against Aizen. If it wasn't for Ichigo Aizen would've likely achieved his goal, or at the very least the 13 court guard squad would've failed. Now how does the realisation of that you're unworthy of your position as a high ranking officer not motivate you to improve?Besides, I personally like the approach that maybe Ichigo won't have to fight all battles in the upcoming arc.
Oh...I've already explained it.
But, I can requote for you:
Originally posted by dadudemon
I figure his love for Rukia is more than enough motivation to train hard.It took him 10 years to master his Bankai...and at that, Byakuya said that he still had not mastered it when he used it in their fight.
I have no idea what you're talking about on the last part: she was held back for years by Byakuya because he feared losing her. She was a 5th seat...but most likely closer to a 3rd of 2nd seat in ability. She is not lieutenant level, however. (She may be, now)
Originally posted by dadudemon
Here's something that needs to be pointed out: Renji and Rukia trained for years...like...really hard. Yet, they didn't get a significant power boost ever. So putting a giant power boost on Renji in just 17 months is a bit out of place. True that Kubo can retcon his own work and pretend that the decades Renji and Rukia trained their butts off pales in just 17 months of training...But, it's like a hyperbolic time chamber thing.
Granted, Ichigo got a significant boost in power when he trained for 3 days but that was due to already have a ginormous supply of reiryoku (Naruto, anyone?). So he just honed his natural abilities.
So unless you have a better explanation for why Renji can vastly eclipse his training/power increase in only 17 months where it took him literally decades to get to his previous point, I'm all ears.
Originally posted by Q99
A lot of people in Bleach are stupid. At least their way of stupid is based on hitting people with swords rather than stupid honor things.
11th Division likes to hit with swords and say stupid honor things. ^^
But then again, this could just be me not getting the whole honor thing. In a one on one fight for lulz, I can see them not taking it seriously. Squad 11 however, and least the two we see the most of, are perfectly willing to die and tell the world to go screw itself because their honor held them back. Heck, even Kenpachi realized that when push came to shove, ya gotta get serious. 😛
Edit: As for the Renji thing, it's likely due to them being able to train at a whole new level that was inaccessible before. Now, Renji could train while fighting other bankai users more or less evenly. Such training is quite likely to increase one's base strength. Look at what the training did for Chad, who increased quite a bit after the SS due to training with a Bankai user.
You used the Hyperbolic Time chamber as an example. But, if one looks at the context of how the chamber was used, it would show that every time someone trained in it, two super sayains did the training.
Or, using Naruto as an example. Team 7 went up in skill far higher than the others. Why? Well, look at their teachers. Of course the Sanin will be able to teach better than Kakashi and the academy students. It's completely understandable that they could increase exponentially during such a short time. But, not only did they have tough teachers, the also had goals in mind as well. Like Renji does here. ^^