Well if you wanna know...
Spoiler:
They're dicks that will let allies die simply cause they don't like them. And the threat of social ostracism forces a guy to treat his sword like garbage just to fit in. And they call themselves the strongest even though Chad took out the entire division in 2 minutes. I don't mind meat heads if they're like the saiyans and can actually back up calling themselves the strongest. Though I think my biggest pet peeve is Kubo keeps showing off the 11th and I hate all of them. Kenpachi is just insane, granted he is funny as hell but he has 1 trick and it's not gonna change. Yachiru doesn't do anything except be cute and stuff so I don't mind her. And then there are those two....
Btw, why I don't hate squad 11- everyone in Bleach is dumb in a fight, but they have a reason for being dumb- their actual objective is entertaining one-on-one duels, rather than some outside objective. They, themselves, are perfectly willing to die for their reason, and they don't ask anyone to die for them, or fight for them, or do anything for them, they'd rather all fight personally because that in itself is the goal. Any other outside objective gets accomplished in the processes, that's fine and all, but that is not their point. They are a faction with different objectives that soul society uses because they have some strong members.
They showed up with that on their resume, they were hired despite that, and that's entirely what they're there for. Like a guard dog on a lease, I don't get annoyed at a guard dog for only doing guard dog stuff. Not in the same way, say, Renji and Byakuya are annoying for fighting and trying to kill Ichigo even when they really want him to win. The Renji soul society fight went directly against his own objectives because his 'honor' makes him do stupid stuff.
It's mostly the screen time issue with me. I could care less about the fact that their collective intelligence is equal to a kindergarteners. And honor codes do nothing for me. Which is probably one of the few things that keeps me from actually liking Ukitake.
Edit: The Renji fight is easily explained. Ichigo is the one causing her to be executed, so obviously he'd want to kill him. Since he has no chance of saving her, there is no reason to ally himself with Ichigo.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
@Dew DemonIf he cared that much about duty, he'd have gone Bankai. The only thing Ikkaku cares about is fighting and serving under Kenpachi. Does Kenpachi even like Ikkaku?
That's easy: right now, he's having his cake and eating it, too.
It's like this: if ordered, he'd do it. Since no one knows, he won't be ordered. He will follow orders to the death due to his loyalty and bushido code. Since he doesn't have the orders, he wins....he gets his cake and eats it too. See? 😄
Also, it is not as though the pillar thing was bad: he didn't have to release. Know why? Yamamoto could have done everything himself in almost a blink of an eye.
Also, his butt buddy, Ichigo, was supposed to be coming to save the day. Lastly, his bushido code of ethics would have made it worse on him IF he revealed his bankai: he would have kept it secret and SS would not have been able to utilize him to the best of their ability. So the lesser of the two evils was to keep it a secret and prevent his dishonor by revealing it...and revealing that he had kept it secret for all that time. (Remember, it takes 10 years to master it, once you unlock it. Only two people are awesome enough to master theirs with the secret cheater way.)
Speculation: what if Urahara is the Soul King?
I wanna know!
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Edit: The Renji fight is easily explained. Ichigo is the one causing her to be executed, so obviously he'd want to kill him. Since he has no chance of saving her, there is no reason to ally himself with Ichigo.
Renji could've been training himself for bankai the entire time so he'd be able to make his attempt, though. And that back-entrence he guarded was ill-protected anyway, even a weak invaded had a chance. Ichigo trying to save Rukia works in his interests, or can be ignored while he prepares for the real battle.
Fighting Ichigo does nothing to help his objectives in any way.
Then of course there's Byakuya!
To Renji, even if he and Ichigo had gotten bankai, they would not have been able to save Rukia. Ever. By giving her powers to Ichigo, Renji blames him for her execution. He has a legit beef with the guy. Once Ichigo beat him, Renji merely dropped the facade and pleaded with Ichigo to save her. It still wasn't possible but since he can't beat the guy, no sense in fighting.
Byakuya was in a position of not knowing what he wants. And it was actually more Ichigo's beef that Byakuya's in this case. 😛
I actually do not know why you two are arguing about that. Renji had not yet mastered Bankai..so he could not use it.
Renji also didn't like Ichigo because he tried too hard but was a newb...sort of like Kuchiki's reasons for disliking Ichigo. That's in addition to causing Rukia to be put on the chopping block.
Also, Ichigo apparantly had fluctuating reiatsu that was strong enough to rival most captains, at the time. Renji got a taste of that, first hand, so he knows Ichigo is strong enough. So why did Renji fight Ichigo? Because he gambled on Ichigo not having enough control to beat him...considering Ichigo WAS and STILL is a newb. Keep in mind that other shinigami have been doing the shinigami thing for decades to hundreds of years. It was easier to count on Ichigo losing than winning through tapping into and stabilizing his strength.
Had Renji one, Renji would have validated his position in all regards. Had Ichigo won...then Ichigo may have stood a chance in saving Rukia....based on the rapid progress Ichigo had made already. So, combine all of those...and we end up with a decent reason that Renji fought Ichigo. It makes since. For Renji, it was a win-win: revenge or the potential to save Rukia. Both are good outcomes for Renji.
WTF?
That last paragraph is atrocious. Corrected:
"Had Renji [won], Renji would have validated his position in all regards. Had Ichigo won, Ichigo may have stood a chance in saving Rukia based on the rapid progress Ichigo had made already. So, combine all of those and we end up with a decent reason that Renji fought Ichigo. It makes [sense]. For Renji, it was a win-win: revenge or the potential to save Rukia. Both are good outcomes for Renji."
Originally posted by NemeBro
Because Renji explicitly states that IIRC. 😐That he knew he couldn't save Rukia, and wanted to see if Ichigo really had the potential to.
But, if Ichigo had the potential... then he's just a hinderance to it and could've possibly caused Ichigo's capture. Ichigo might've been able to grab Rukia *right then* if it wasn't for Renji, there were no captain-class guards at that point.
While it's nice to be able to check for sure if someone has the potential, doing so at the cost of reducing the odds of mission success... less so.
Renji helped turn a commando raid into an all-out open battle.
Originally posted by Q99
But, if Ichigo had the potential... then he's just a hinderance to it and could've possibly caused Ichigo's capture. Ichigo might've been able to grab Rukia *right then* if it wasn't for Renji, there were no captain-class guards at that point.
Renji strongly suspected that there would be people in the way to block Ichigo...like....mother ****in' Kenpachi!!!!!
Originally posted by Q99
While it's nice to be able to check for sure if someone has the potential, doing so at the cost of reducing the odds of mission success... less so.
NOPE! He knew that Ichigo was getting healed by someone. He suspected that to keep up. It turns out, it happened. In fact, they all had to know Ichigo was getting healed.
Spoiler:
Originally Posted by Sheetz @ FLOL
741 ：ohana ◆,IR7jauNn4E ：2011/11/22(火😉 22:38:01.91 ID:FdDE6khAP
遂に月島を撃破ッ！！残すは銀城のみと思われたその時、驚愕の真実が…！？
Tsukishima is finally crushed! Only Ginjou appears to remain. What are his shocking truths?
浦原商店で　寝てる井上　チャド
At Urahara's shop. Inoue and Chad are sleeping.
一心　おちついてきたな…
Isshin: They've settled down...
浦原　…ええ　テッサイさん　あとは任せます
Urahra: Yes. Tessai-san, I'll leave them to you.
テッサイ　はい
Tessai: Yes.
一心　どこ行くんだよ？
Isshin: Where're you going?
浦原　皆サンのところへ
Urahra: To where everyone else is.
一心　加勢か？　俺も行こう
Isshin: Reinforcements? I'll go too.
浦原　いえもう大半の戦いは終わってるでしょうから治療に　一心サンは役立たずなんでここに居 てくだせあい
Urahara: No, The battles are mostly finished and you're no help at healing. Please stay here.
一心　一護の戦いに加勢して早く片付けたほうがいいんじゃねえか　でねえと…
Isshin: I think I should hurry up and help at Ichigo's fight to straighten up after him. If I don't...
浦原　銀城空吾から　聞かされてしまう？　…いいんスよ　いずれは　知る事なんスから
Urahara: He'll hear everything from Ginjou? It's ok. He'll find out sooner or later.474　beLIEve
イチゴ　俺が…　本当に戦うべき敵…！？
Ichigo: The enemy I should really be fighting...!?
銀城　あア
Ginjou: Yes.
イチゴ　…ふざけんなよ　お前らのその手の揺さぶりはもう飽きたんだよ
Ichigo: Quit bullshitting! I'm tired of your stalling tactics.
石田　そうだな　形勢が不利と見て驚愕の真実ってやつを提示して心理的に圧迫し　”だから自分 と手を組んだ ほうが得だ”という流れにもっていくのが狙いだ　違うか？
Ishida: That's right. Seeing you're at a disadvantage you present "shocking truths" to pressure him psychologically into joining forces with you. Isn't that right?
銀城　形勢が不利だと？どこを見てそう言ってる？悪りイが今の俺はお前等２人相手でも十分勝て る　ためしに 後ろから撃ってみろ　しゃべりながらでも弾いてやる
Ginjou: A disadvantage? How do you see that? Sorry, but right now I'm enough to handle the two of you. For instance if you attack from behind I can repel it even while I speak to you.
石田　…
銀城　黒崎　お前…　自分が何故代行証を持たされてるか知ってるか？
Ginjou: Kurosaki...Do you know why you were given the Shinigami badge to hang onto?
石田　（ーー…！）
Ishida:...!
イチゴ　…　…どういう意味だ？
Ichigo:...What do you mean?
銀城　…お前は代行証を渡されたときこう言われた筈だ　死神代行がソウルソサエティにとって有 益であると判 断された場合代行証を渡す決まりになっている・と　…よく聞け黒崎　　そいつは嘘だ
Ginjou:...They should have told you this when you were given the badge. The Shinigami badge is given when you are judged by SS to be useful. Listen up, Kurosaki, that's a lie.
イチゴ　！
Ichigo: !
石田　（…そこまでは予測していた　ひとつの組織にとって有益が無益が害悪かの判断なんてそう 簡単にできる ものじゃない　そして何より問題なのは”有益ならば代行証を渡す”のならば　　それ以外だった らどうするの かを　黒崎に教えていないことだ）
Ishida: (...I predicted that much. For a single organization to judge one's usefulness or harmfulness isn't a simple matter. And above all there's the question: if he was given the badge after being deemed useful, why wasn't Kurosaki told what would happen to him if he weren't?
銀城　正確には　ソウルソサエティにとって有益か無益かは関係ねえ　有益だろうが無益だろうが 　等しく代行 証はわたされる
Ginjou: The truth is, being useful or not is irrelevant. Either way you are given a badge.
石田　（…！！）
Ishida: ..!!
銀城　代行証の正式名称は「死神代行戦闘許可証」　現世での死神ア代行のかつそうを許可する証 明証だ
イチゴ　知ってる
Ginjou: The formal name of the badge is the "Acting Shinigami Agent Combat Permit." It authorizes you as the Acting Shinigami Agent in the real world.
Ichigo: I know that.
銀城　だがお前は今までに　その効力を実感したことはあったか？
Ginjou: But up till now have you ever felt its effects?