The Official BLEACH series Thread

Originally posted by dadudemon
Which is an asspull, by the way.

Which is an asspull ability.

Ishida was trained by his grandfather and lived with his father: quincy.

You're forgetting one major point: Ishida was deemed "powerful"/ interesting, better than his predecessors by Mr. Perv. Ishida was an awesome Quincy...until this arc when his awesomeness was retconned. 🙂

Based on what? Ryuken knows more about Quincy skills than anyone. If he deems Ishida to lack talent, than he does. Then again, he is probably only using himself has a standard. Or Soken.

No, it's an expansion on the power already seen. Hell, DP even speculated that it could go that far in the past.

Ishida didn't even know his father had powers. And though Soken trained him, it's very unlikely that he'd grow to become as strong as someone who trained with many more Quincy to prepare for war.

Mayuri's opinion on Quincy has less weight that Ryuken's. If Ishida is a genius compared to the ones Mayuri had experimented on before, they must have really lacked talent.

As it stands:

Ishida<<<<<Kirge(For obvious, non-asspull reasons)

Ryuken is an unknown, obviously.

You know this chapter also made me realize how much of a dick move it was for Uryu to stay behind. Wouldn't he be the most suited person to try and at least counter Kirge's reishi absorbsion even by just a little.

Well Ryuken is powerful enough to make a solid, not standard glowing, bow so that should imply he's kind of powerful.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Ryuken knows more about Quincy skills than anyone.

Based on what? An asspulled abilities and powerset for this arc? That's what I thought.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
No, it's an expansion on the power already seen.

You say, "Expansion" I say, "asspull".

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Ishida didn't even know his father had powers. And though Soken trained him, it's very unlikely that he'd grow to become as strong as someone who trained with many more Quincy to prepare for war.

No no no no...you missing it. I referring to all of Bleach up to this last arc.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Mayuri's opinion on Quincy has less weight that Ryuken's. If Ishida is a genius compared to the ones Mayuri had experimented on before, they must have really lacked talent.

Based on what?

Exactly. 😉

We only know that Mayuri studied the shit out of them and Ishida was a prodigy compared to them.

But now, we retcon their powers and make them vastly stronger to have a story. You didn't even acknowledge he obvious way Kubo could have approached this arc: using "hell" characters.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Ishida<<<<<Kirge(For obvious, non-asspull reasons)

Correction:

Ishida <<<<<<<<<<<<Kirge for obvious asspull reasons.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Based on what? An asspulled abilities and powerset for this arc? That's what I thought.

No, based on the fact that he was able to return Ishida's powers to him. Ishida, the "Genius" thought it was impossible. Ryuken knew it wasn't. Ergo, Ryuken>Ishida. He is even Soken's official heir.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You say, "Expansion" I say, "asspull".

Kay. The Mangekyou Sharingan is such an asspull then. As is the Flying Thunder God Level 2. And Sage Mode. And Bankai. And Hollow Powers. And Goku turning into a Giant Monkey.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No no no no...you missing it. I referring to all of Bleach up to this last arc.

All of Bleach is an asspull?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Based on what?

Exactly. 😉

We only know that Mayuri studied the shit out of them and Ishida was a prodigy compared to them.

But now, we retcon their powers and make them vastly stronger to have a story. You didn't even acknowledge he obvious way Kubo could have approached this arc: using "hell" characters.

On what Ryuken said. You know, the guy who knows more about Quincy than Mayuri. Due to, ya know, being an extremely talented one.

Dude, the ONLY Quincy we've seen so far are the Ishida's. One is dead, one barely does anything, and the other is described as being no talent. There is not enough to set a bar for the entire race of characters. That's like looking at Rukia in chapter 1 and thinking "Wow, the Shinigami sure are weak." If the Quincy are still around, then yeah they would probably vary in power and it's not too much of a stretch to assume they could be captain class or so.

And the Hell characters idea is dumb man.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Correction:

Ishida <<<<<<<<<<<<Kirge for obvious asspull reasons.

Whatever you say.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
No, based on the fact that he was able to return Ishida's powers to him. Ishida, the "Genius" thought it was impossible. Ryuken knew it wasn't. Ergo, Ryuken>Ishida. He is even Soken's official heir.

Prodigy Genius does not mean one knows everything. I see your point as entirely irrelevant.

I am a digital forensics professional but I did not know you could deploy minidump in multiple forms, enterprise wide. The thought never occurred to me. I would have said, gasp, it was impossible without complicated grouping in Server 2008 R2.

Just sayin'...you can be a "genius" in a field, and still learn something new.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Kay. The Mangekyou Sharingan is such an asspull then. As is the Flying Thunder God Level 2. And Sage Mode. And Bankai. And Hollow Powers. And Goku turning into a Giant Monkey.

FTGL2 is the same jutsu as FTG. The only difference is how it is used. MS was used to establish a powerset, not overright and ignore previous power sets from the same "race." Sage Mode is nothing new as we had heard "toad sage" multiple times in reference to Jiraiya but did not know what it meant. It's not like we were told that if Jiraiya used Sage mode, he would die. And then Naruto uses Sage mode, and then doesn't die from it. Bankai was establishing an existing power set, not overwriting old ones about long existing characters.

Here's a proper example of an asspull: Izanami.

You tried.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
All of Bleach is an asspull?

A strawman is a valid argument?

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
On what Ryuken said. You know, the guy who knows more about Quincy than Mayuri. Due to, ya know, being an extremely talented one.

You pass that off like it will fly. Mayuri: level 98. Ryuken: level 100. Hardly a massive difference. I would say Ishida knows some things his father doesn't.

And 'extremely talented' one is probably an exaggeration on your part.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Dude, the ONLY Quincy we've seen so far are the Ishida's.

Not true: we saw a flashback of a clash between Quincy and Shinigami.

Quincy seemed to be on par with low-level Shinigami.
😐

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
One is dead,

And he was killed by low-level hollow...and he was the one who trained your Quincy Hero: Ryuken.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
one barely does anything,

Execpt inheriting all the knowledge his father had.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
and the other is described as being no talent.

By an overbearing father that is obviously biased towards Quincy. Keep in mind that a real judge of Quincy talent tested this person and deemed him so talented/above the cut that he wanted to study Quincy again via Ishida's body. Ishida was also the only other person to defeat a Captain, besides Ichigo, when they invaded. 😐

Your demean attempt, against the previous Quincy, has failed.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
There is not enough to set a bar for the entire race of characters.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
That's like looking at Rukia in chapter 1 and thinking "Wow, the Shinigami sure are weak."

It's like looking at her powers over the last 400 hundred chapters and knowing her limits but then she gets several massive powerups, one which is explicitly supposed to destroy all of her powers.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
If the Quincy are still around, then yeah they would probably vary in power and it's not too much of a stretch to assume they could be captain class or so.

Except, no, they wouldn't, not even a little bit. The shinigami already steam rolled the Quincy.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
And the Hell characters idea is dumb man.

It's an excellent idea and one the fans demanded for a long time.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Whatever you say.

That's better.

Originally posted by dadudemon

FTGL2 is the same jutsu as FTG. The only difference is how it is used. MS was used to establish a powerset, not overright and ignore previous power sets from the same "race." Sage Mode is nothing new as we had heard "toad sage" multiple times in reference to Jiraiya but did not know what it meant. It's not like we were told that if Jiraiya used Sage mode, he would die. And then Naruto uses Sage mode, and then doesn't die from it. Bankai was establishing an existing power set, not overwriting old ones about long existing characters.

Here's a proper example of an asspull: Izanami.

Sklaverei is only different from the reishi dominance that Ishida displayed in how it was used.
Vollstandig does not overwrite and ignore a previous powerset that was barely displayed, and it is functionally the same as Letzt Stil.

Face it, you be mad because this isn't a hell-related arc. 313

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Face it, you be mad because this isn't a hell-related arc. 313

I have no idea what words or techniques you were talking about before, but....to the above.

Prolly. stoned

Originally posted by dadudemon
I have no idea what words or techniques you were talking about before, but....to the above.

Prolly. stoned

Sklaverei is what Kirge used to pwn Allon, and Vollstandig is the form he is currently using. Letzt Stil is the form Uryu used.

Hell is SMALL-TIEM. 313

Originally posted by dadudemon
*Snippet*

That wasn't the point. The point was to show that Ryuken is a credible source and is at least familiar with something like the Letzt Stil, since he was able to return Ishida's powers. He is a credible source for ranking the skill of Quincy. At least, as credible a source as one can have.

Originally posted by dadudemon
FTGL2 is the same jutsu as FTG. The only difference is how it is used. MS was used to establish a powerset, not overright and ignore previous power sets from the same "race." Sage Mode is nothing new as we had heard "toad sage" multiple times in reference to Jiraiya but did not know what it meant. It's not like we were told that if Jiraiya used Sage mode, he would die. And then Naruto uses Sage mode, and then doesn't die from it. Bankai was establishing an existing power set, not overwriting old ones about long existing characters.

Here's a proper example of an asspull: Izanami.

You tried.

What makes MS any different from what Kirge is using? It's the next level in an established power(Quincy power) and it's implied to be different from the thing Ishida used. It's just new. Like Bankai once was.

Originally posted by dadudemon
A strawman is a valid argument?

Considering your comment there made no sense whatsoever I had to take a stab at what you meant.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You pass that off like it will fly. Mayuri: level 98. Ryuken: level 100. Hardly a massive difference. I would say Ishida knows some things his father doesn't.

And 'extremely talented' one is probably an exaggeration on your part.

Mayuri is still the one with inferior intelligence with regard to Quincy matters. Meaning Ryuken's opinions are the ones with the most weight.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Not true: we saw a flashback of a clash between Quincy and Shinigami.

Quincy seemed to be on par with low-level Shinigami.
😐

Where? I honestly don't remember.

A vague flashback(that I actually can't find but I don't think you're lying about it) isn't going to show much in the way of detail of the battle.

Originally posted by dadudemon
And he was killed by low-level hollow...and he was the one who trained your Quincy Hero: Ryuken.

So he sucks. And don't try to spin this like I like Ryuken. I had to look up his name lol. It really doesn't matter to me whether he is in this manga or not. But he was the best Quincy we'd seen until, downright calling Ishida pathetic for having lost his powers so easily.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Execpt inheriting all the knowledge his father had.

Barely does anything.

Originally posted by dadudemon
By an overbearing father that is obviously biased towards Quincy. Keep in mind that a real judge of Quincy talent tested this person and deemed him so talented/above the cut that he wanted to study Quincy again via Ishida's body. Ishida was also the only other person to defeat a Captain, besides Ichigo, when they invaded. 😐

Your demean attempt, against the previous Quincy, has failed.

And yet that Overbearing father is clearly aware of how strong Quincy powers can potentially be and ridicules Ishida for having feeble ones. Mayuri clearly shows a lack of knowledge compared to this guy.

Ishida didn't exactly beat said Captain though lol. And so what? Mayuri is one of the weaker Captains and I actually think the other Quincy could take him. Ryuken based on implied power and Kirge based on...well, he is a monster.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Correction: There's more than enough to set the bar for the entire race of characters.

Except it's really not. Using the Shinigami again, look at the first 4 revealed Shinigami(not counting Urahrara and his roomate). Byakuya was clearly the strongest, Ichigo and Renji were roughly equal(except for the limit) and Rukia seemed very untalented. The same can be said for the two Quincy we knew of before this arc: One was implied to be very strong(Ryuken) and the other was a few degrees weaker than Ichigo(Ishida). Even if you want to argue that this is enough to gauge an entire race, it still makes the distinction of there being Quincy of different levels of skill.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It's like looking at her powers over the last 400 hundred chapters and knowing her limits but then she gets several massive powerups, one which is explicitly supposed to destroy all of her powers.

Context helps but hey, isn't that what happened anyway? We saw how weak Rukia was in Chapter 1. Come Soul Society and the idea of a Shinigami being beaten by a Hollow so easily seems pathetic.

Of course, in context Kirge's powers are called out to be different from Ishida's powers and even states that he isn't using such an old technique like Letzt Stil. Considering what we're being show is that two Quincy groups were growing in two seperate locations, coupled with that fact that Ryuken established that Ishida was using weak powers, and it's pretty obvious that the two groups would vary in power.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Except, no, they wouldn't, not even a little bit. The shinigami already steam rolled the Quincy.

Clearly not. You seem to be under the impression that the vague backstory we were given early on contains all the truths while Kubo is showing us that it doesn't. This isn't really an asspull so much as it is pointing out the obvious fact that "There may be more to this than meets the eyes."

Originally posted by dadudemon
It's an excellent idea and one the fans demanded for a long time.

Pfft, like Kubo cares about them.

They got their movie about Hell. It was probably shit.

AND yeah, with that I'm calling this done. Reply if you want. Or don't. I dun care.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
At least, as credible a source as one can have.

Not really. I'd say Ishida and his grandfather are more credible on some things mostly because the father doesn't give a ****.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
What makes MS any different from what Kirge is using? It's the next level in an established power(Quincy power) and it's implied to be different from the thing Ishida used. It's just new. Like Bankai once was.

The power is new but the Quincy are not new. The difference is what I outlined: we didn't establish a ton of abilities from a race and then over-write it.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Considering your comment there made no sense whatsoever I had to take a stab at what you meant.

You were limiting Bleach up to the invasion arc. I was limiting it up to this current Arc. Not through, to.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Mayuri is still the one with inferior intelligence with regard to Quincy matters. Meaning Ryuken's opinions are the ones with the most weight.

Not by much, though. In fact, I could say that Mayuri has knowledge he does not.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Where? I honestly don't remember.

A vague flashback(that I actually can't find but I don't think you're lying about it) isn't going to show much in the way of detail of the battle.

Other than the fact that mook shinigami fought tons of Quincy?

But, no, I don't have time to go through dozens of chapters to find it. I am sure the wiki has it documented as to the "first appearance".

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
So he sucks. And don't try to spin this like I like Ryuken. I had to look up his name lol. It really doesn't matter to me whether he is in this manga or not. But he was the best Quincy we'd seen until, downright calling Ishida pathetic for having lost his powers so easily.

I would say he doesn't suck since he taught Ryuken everything he knows. Just showing you that, clearly, there was a massive power boost for Quincy to make this arc happen. Look - asspull.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Barely does anything.

It's your meter-stick, not mine. He is virtually featless.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
And yet that Overbearing father is clearly aware of how strong Quincy powers can potentially be and ridicules Ishida for having feeble ones. Mayuri clearly shows a lack of knowledge compared to this guy.

Incorrect on all counts. He's just overbearing and rude, period. No need to inject your baseless opinions.

I hold that Mayuri knows things Ryuken does not, concerning Quincy powers.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Ishida didn't exactly beat said Captain though lol. And so what? Mayuri is one of the weaker Captains and I actually think the other Quincy could take him. Ryuken based on implied power and Kirge based on...well, he is a monster.

He did. A win is not a death for either party. Mayuri went packing and literally, slithered away in a puddle.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Except it's really not. Using the Shinigami again, look at the first 4 revealed Shinigami(not counting Urahrara and his roomate). Byakuya was clearly the strongest, Ichigo and Renji were roughly equal(except for the limit) and Rukia seemed very untalented. The same can be said for the two Quincy we knew of before this arc: One was implied to be very strong(Ryuken) and the other was a few degrees weaker than Ichigo(Ishida). Even if you want to argue that this is enough to gauge an entire race, it still makes the distinction of there being Quincy of different levels of skill.

You reveal the top-tier shinigami (A top lieutenant, a top captain, and a top-unranked) for your comparison. Your comparison fails.

Ishida is a top Quincy. Your basing you entire opinion off of the words of his ***holish father. We already know that Ishida was a whole head and shoulders above the other Quincy. So much so that he was considered unique enough to be studied.

And we saw the top of what Quincy are in Ishida, already. His grandfather was obviously weak-sauce compared to Ishida. His father is featless. Ishida is the most powerful Quincy, before this arc. Just because his father knew how to restore his powers, does not mean that he is stronger/better than Ishida: it just means he had knowledge. There are 2 other areas his father is better in, but, other than that, Ishida is better until we have more feats.

So the premise of your entire argument is baseless. We already knew that. The premise of my argument is based off of the actual manga: grandpa getting beaten by low-level hollows, quincy falling to mook shinigami, etc. But, now, Quincy are these ultra powerful forces that challenge enough to solo-Soul Society. Cool asspull and retcon.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Context helps but hey, isn't that what happened anyway? We saw how weak Rukia was in Chapter 1. Come Soul Society and the idea of a Shinigami being beaten by a Hollow so easily seems pathetic.

The hollow was quite strong compared to other hollow:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v01/c001/24.html

She was also hit while Ichigo and her were talking. She turned her back on the hollow like a moron, because she thought she had victory after chopping its arm off.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v01/c001/37.html

The hollow hits her so hard she makes a boom boom crater.

She was unphased until she got in the way of the Hollow's charge-bite against Ichigo. Basically, she sacrificed herself to save Ichigo.

Lastly, Rukia was being "subdued" in her spiritual senses because Ichigo had so much power:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v01/c001/51.html

Obviously, a newb mistake, imo, and it is retconned later.

But take a step back and realize that Kubo is making this up as he goes. Sometimes, he asspulls. Some times, he retcons. Sometimes, he asspull retcons like he has done with the quincy.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Of course, in context Kirge's powers are called out to be different from Ishida's powers and even states that he isn't using such an old technique like Letzt Stil.

Again, retcon asspulling. "Dey are different, bro!"

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
it's pretty obvious that the two groups would vary n power.

That's right! Ignore the history and the "last quincy" facts, retcon stories and then asspull powers. PRESTO! The current arc! 😄

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Clearly not. You seem to be under the impression that the vague backstory we were given early on contains all the truths while Kubo is showing us that it doesn't. This isn't really an asspull so much as it is pointing out the obvious fact that "There may be more to this than meets the eyes."

Yeah, "vague". Bleh.

Try to do better than emotion based arguments and comparative arguments. You can do better than, "man, the back story was too vague".

But here's what is really the case:

Ignore the history and the "last quincy" facts, retcon stories and then asspull powers. PRESTO! The current arc! 😄

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Pfft, like Kubo cares about them.

Touché

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
They got their movie about Hell. It was probably shit.

Probably. I still have not seen it.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
AND yeah, with that I'm calling this done. Reply if you want. Or don't. I dun care.

Okay.

Why is it that the content Bleach covers in a single chapter is half that of Naruto and Bleach? /rhetorical/

Shot in the dark, but with the Quincy's reiatsu drain we'll probably see a controllable FTG/Mugetsu form where he doesn't lose his powers.

It's because kubo wastes a lot of space on each page doing huge panels filled with white backgrounds, and close-up pans of the characters' faces.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Why is it that the content Bleach covers in a single chapter is half that of Naruto and Bleach? /rhetorical/

Shot in the dark, but with the Quincy's reiatsu drain we'll probably see a controllable FTG/Mugetsu form where he doesn't lose his powers.

They can't drain Reiatsu. They absorb Reishi instead

I understand that the emperor is extremely powerful and that he could probably take on an army by himself. But for the purpose of the war, why aren't there more people standing behind him? If for the increased efficiency if nothing else.

He's floating in the air.

They could be under him. estahuh

Or somewhere else.

I so hope this guy starts throwing down with Yamamoto. Would be awesome.

That depends on what he's there for. May not want to cause a commotion by bringing a team.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
They can't drain Reiatsu. They absorb Reishi instead

Originally posted by NemeBro
He's floating in the air.

Quincy's can though.

Originally posted by BloodRain
That depends on what he's there for. May not want to cause a commotion by bringing a team.

The air, her power and that beast are Reishi?.. whats the difference between the two again?

Reishi are spirit particles that are found in the air, and it is what makes up Shinigamis and Hollows. Reiatsu is spiritual pressure caused by using up Reiryoku, one's spirit energy.