Kurse vs. Classic Juggernaut

Here we go again.

Originally posted by KillAll
ok??? thor 1) had help from a bunch of nobodies 2)juggernaut wasnt even intent on fighting thor he just did it cause thor kept getting in his way. hold his own? he got knocked out and juggernaut took everything he had without even slowing down.

The part of the fight in which thor engaged juggernaut physically happened before the new warriors were even present on the scene. So no thor did NOT have help from them. When he fought jugs physically (which is what is relevant here) they werent even around. Also Juggernaut didnt want to figh thor intially BUT after he had engaged in fighting thor, he was not holding back anything. Further thor was so weak in that fight that he found it difficult to temporarily hold up a single train car. Therefore when u consider that even as thor was that weak as thor was juggernuat didnt oneshot him and he still made a match of the encounter for a while, then yes he did do relatively well given the circumstances.

Juggernaut was not amped. he was stating that he needed to be somewhere. he was going to get there. refer to juggernaut trion for an amped juggs. refer to the countless times he has had his power drained and shrank. literally. his size usually changes when he gets powerd up or depowered.

This is just simply denying what was on panel. Juggernaut himself admitted to being amped.

Thors talks about juggernaut being more powerful than ever before and what does juggernaut say?" you got that right goldilocks, something is making me that way" .Oh but u want us to disregard what the character himself says as well as other characters observations and instead accept nonsensical unsupported rationalizations.heh.

except in every encounter except for the 60 seconds JUGGERNAUT was depowered???

learn to actually read the post before responding. I said that regular juggernaut, has never overpowered a full powered thor. So lets see theyve fought 3 times. The first encounter thor was weakenedi.e not full powered) so that doesnt count. The other encounter u r referring to we have jugs admitting to being amped so that is also out the window.....so yes if uve been following ur above post is blatantly false.

well, he said ATLEAST thors equal. meaning that he was thors equal or (pay close attention) at a higher level.

Actually he said he is easily thors equal. Point is that at best we have juggernaut stating that he is definitely on thors level of strength while we know that Kurse is 4 times that.

what does this have to do with juggernaut?? none of that mumbo jumbo would help thor anymore against juggernaut than it did against kurse. if juggernaut were at full power.

If thors strength was doubled hed be way stronger than juggernaut who hasnt shown to be stronger than even a regular thor.

except in every encounter except when JUGGERNAUT was depowered. sure i agree in that case.

See above for the disproof of this gibberish. One encounter he was amped another encounterthor wasnt at fullpower.

thor and kurses battles prove nothing.

you havent explained it, and its still invalid. thor can negate juggernauts magics and present a problem to him. kurse cannot.

I explained it a few posts ago. U foolishly ignored it and didnt even attempt to disporve it. Further the ability to negate jugs enchantment is irrelvant here. Jugs strength wasnt negated anyways

kurse in no circumstances could stop the juggernauts forward momentum. at all. he can put up a fight but he cant slow him down.

Kurse wouldnt need to stop juggernauts forward momentum, this isnt a pushing contest. At some point in the fight juggernaut will stop and begin to exchange blows with Kurse, at this point in time he is done for and willbe BFRed by a far stronger opponent. End of story

so to assume that juggernaut is just gonna stand there (not use his strength, or fighting abilities or magics) and let kurse just pick him up is sensical?? no, its "nonsensical" also.

Who said juggernaut is going to just stand there? I explicitly mentioned that juggernaut would put up resistance but because of Kurses vastly superior strength he would easily overcome said resistance. Further what magics are u even talking about? Juggernaut admitted to having lost any magical powers he had in Dr strange Sorcerer supreme issue 44. Sheesh, now ur trying to give him new abilities.

nah, juggernaut just marchs forward and hits him, kurse cant slow him down and will just have to take the punishment.

And when Kurse moves out of the way what happens? or goes behind juggernaut?. The fact of the matter is that juggernaut is going to have to stop and engage in h2h combat in this fight at one point or the other. He cant just keep marching forward aimlessly as u are suggesting. Its at tha point that he gets Bfred.

he has used it and its an option, you cant just invalidate it and say it wont be used, cause it IS an option.

Im not saying his forcefield doesnt exist. However the belief that he cant be touched through it is just false. In his first fight against thor, it was on throughout without any sign or mention of him turning it off (pls show an example of him doing such a thing willingly) and thor was still able to punch him and send him flying. Infact here is a challenge which will show the ridiculousness of this forcefield idea, If he can supposedly turn off and on his forcefield, and we assume that everytime he is hit his forcefield is off even without any proof that he turned it off, then i challenge u to show me an instance where juggernauts forcefield was clearly illustrated as being on and yet Juggernaut was able to make contact with others in the way of punches and such. IF u cant do this and still persist in this "he cant be touched thru his forcefield" argument then i have every right to assert that he cant touch others thru his forcefield either.

he turns it on and off. it was on when he wanted to prove he could not be touched by thors hammer. i personally believe it was not on when the godblast hit him. none of these things kurse can do.

Please show me proof that he turned it off at ANY point during the first fight with thor despite clearly indicating that it was on previously.

but not when he doesnt want to be.

show me where kurse has battlefeild removed somebody in hand to hand combat. or where juggernaut was battlefeild removed because of his unstoppability. it has always helped him except for WWH. in which case he was almost immediately back. and if you ask me again, juggernaut only got MOMENTARILY BFR because he was distracted and not even paying attention to wwh, and all the while holding him at bay.

Kurse has had like 20 appearances tops. Anyhow if even savage hulk could realize that BFR was the best option against juggernaut then im sure Kurse can as well. It doesnt take any kind of genius to realize that if after a prolonged period of fighting u have been unable to damage ur opponent then its best to get him the hell away from you. Further i was being sarcastic when i suggested juggernaut simply Bfring himself . This scenario will be more like his fight with savage hulk in which Savage hulk would have thrown him back to the army base if not for some mountains that got in the way.

your proof in actuality is your OPINION. and see, you did it to... "probably". you arent even sure. personally i believe juggernaut capable of damaging kurse.

Rubbish. Ive provided on panel evidence to back up my arguments unlike you who have resorted to false claims and denial. lol and I only said "probably" because i wanted to be generous. Juggernaut CANT hurt kurse period. As seen ON PANEL Both thor and Beta ray bill had to use up ALL the magic in their hammers to KO him. Juggernaut doesnt even have close to that type of damage output.

👆 Naija

How can people actually debate, Juggernaut not being?

Dude, even agreed. And he never showed he turned off his Force Field after he turned it on.

Anyways, I'd address a great deal of KillAll posts but Naija, got it more or less.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Pure Gibberish. The questions u are asking are inane. How does he ever walk up a flight of stairs? How does he ever lean against a wall or sit down? Are u freaking kidding me? 😂 Those questions dont relate to the nature of his enchantment in the slightest.lol, Firstly i would think that u would realize that when we talk about the juggernaut being unstoppable when he starts moving we are talking about him being stopped by external forces. 😱 Therefore he CAN stop himself when he wants to. Its not that when he starts moving he cant stop himself but that when he starts moving nothing else can stop him. Further i dare u to provide me with instances in which he clearly indicates turning off his unstoppability enchantment while moving forward. I bet u cant and wont and so it remains unsupported gibberish.

And NO the War hulk thing is not relevant even in the slightest. In my previous post i challenged u to prove that War hulk was stronger than WWH prior to the enchancements kicking in. U simply ignored that and made ANOTHER blanket claim that he was "arguably stronger". Trying to base ur argument of juggernauts previous performance in the War hulk fight is ridiculous.

Juggernaut was not using strength at all. He was using his unstoppability enchantment that comes into play when he moves forward. U havent provided any form of proof whatsoever except a forum discussion with a writer which contradicts whats on panel. I have challenged u to show me instances where juggernaut is shown to turn on and off his unstoppability enchantment and you have yet to show anything but instead have provided laughably idiotic questions/analogies which have no relationship at all with whats being discussed. Ur argument is still entirely baseless.

Now ur moving the goalpost and trying to dismiss other forms of evidence post which is logical fallacy. Kurse doesnt have pure strength lifting feats etc and the reason for such is extremely obvious. Other villains like Thanos,Mangog and Durok who are clearly stronger than thor dont have these lifting feats either because frankly there is no reason plotwise for them to go around performing such feats. U cannot simply dismiss the forms of evidence that DO prove he is far stronger than juggernaut because u dont like them. Thats utter nonsense. Kurse has continuously demolished and overpowerd thor in their fights and his amps have been clearly depicted ON panel so there is no disputing them. There is also thors own admission of the fact that Kurse is considerably stronger than him. Thor himself is featwise even superior to juggernaut but in general they are within the same range of strength. Kurse therefore being far stronger than Thor automatically means the same for juggernaut. UR attempt to simply dismiss entirely valid forms of evidence in place of what u inanely describe as "hardcore evidence" (lmao) is completely fallacious and also shows desperation. To completely seal this discussion, even if we take the feat that u r trying to falsely pass of as a strength feat Juggernaut would [B]still be nowhere near Kurses strength level. and so ur argument is stil invalid. [/B]

Jeebus, you don't know anything do you? I haven't seen stupidity like this since Quanchi's time here. I'll try to slow it down and make it as simple as possibly can for you ok?

So, you believe that his enchantment is on the instant he moves and it's on all the time?

Here, the writer of that very story says the Juggernaut was using strength against Hulk, not his enchantment:

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=5411579&postcount=36

Here is the entire fight between Juggernaut and WWH. Please show me where it's painfully obvious his enchantment is in effect.

Juggernaut isn't holding onto Hulk in a way you would push someone. They're locked in a game of mercy, that takes strenght. Use your god given gift a reason, son.

I suggest you go back to figuring out how you're going to feed your family for the week and stop getting into debates you're not qualified to get into.

As for Kurse being WAY stronger. Please provide proof.

Originally posted by Naija boy
This is just simply denying what was on panel. Juggernaut himself admitted to being amped.

Why are you Thorbags fixated on that one panel? Why don't you actually read the entire book? You might finally understand something.

Juggernaut was simply more focused in that story. He never did anything that classic Juggernaut didn't do, he's physically man-handled Thor on more than one occasion.

"BAH! Like I care! Can't let you...Anyone stop me!"

The dreaded scan in question. Thor fans focus on the words of their beloved and completely ignore everything Juggernaut says. In response to what Thor says, Juggernaut replies:

"You got that right, goldilocks. Sumthin's makin' me that way...Sumthin's drawin' me somewhere and i'll march through anything or any man ta get there!"

"Fer the first time ever--I really feel like I can cut loose and crush even the likes O' you"

"Gotta...Keep MOVIN'! Gotta follow the call...An' nuthin's gonna stop me!"

I won't even get into him defeating Cyttorak in that story. Why Cyttorak would amp Juggernaut only to have his own avatar defeat him is ridiculous. The point of 8th day was so that the Octessence could determine who was greater by having their exemplars build armies and battle it out. Whoever was the last one standing wins. Amping Juggernaut so he could get some where had nothing to do with it.

Juggernaut was simply more focused, obsessed with getting some where. He has an amazing willpower. His power wasn't amped

If you still want to play this game I'll dig up an email from Kurt Busiek, the guy who write the 2 Eight Day Iron Man tie-ins and the 2 Avenger 9th Day books, where he says Juggernaut was not amped in any way during that story.

juggs may or may not have been amped but he was clearly stronger in 8th day than ever before or since and isnt an indication of his regular power. kind of like b&t or wm thor. hes not amped just cutting loose, but his feats in those scenarios arent relevent to this discussion and neither are 8th day juggs. regular thor and juggs are pretty even strength wise kurse is far superior to thor and therefor stronger than juggs its not abc logic just common sense. regular juggs has never overpowered thor he doesnt get hurt because hes more durable not because thor isnt hitting him as hard.

He's overpowered Thor on more than 1 occasion. I make the same suggestion to you not to get involved in topics you're not qualified to debate.

and what exactly are these multiple occasions that regular juggs has overpowered thor. also id have a few suggestions for u but they would probably mean as little to u as your suggestions mean to me.

By all means, suggest them.

Thor #411, Juggernaut was pimp slapping Thor all over town, Thor was ill at the time so it's not really a great feat. Thor #429, before the 60 second PIS, Juggernaut was handing Thor his head. Thor #17, Thor was absolutely no match for the Juggernaut physically. He never has been without some contrived plot device written in for Thor specifically to make him more or less equal to the Juggernaut.

Thor's only advantage over Juggernaut is mjolnir.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Jeebus, you don't know anything do you? I haven't seen stupidity like this since Quanchi's time here. I'll try to slow it down and make it as simple as possibly can for you ok?

So, you believe that his enchantment is on the instant he moves and it's on all the time?

Here, the writer of that very story says the Juggernaut was using strength against Hulk, not his enchantment:

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=5411579&postcount=36

Here is the entire fight between Juggernaut and WWH. Please show me where it's painfully obvious his enchantment is in effect.

Juggernaut isn't holding onto Hulk in a way you would push someone. They're locked in a game of mercy, that takes strenght. Use your god given gift a reason, son.

I suggest you go back to figuring out how you're going to feed your family for the week and stop getting into debates you're not qualified to get into.

As for Kurse being WAY stronger. Please provide proof.

Lol so instead of attempting prove anything or disprove anything mentioned in my post, u decided to dodge it and try cover up ur inability to counter it with unbelievably laughable personal attacks. 😂. Wow..... "i havent seen suchs tupidity since quanchi was here"......Gimme a freaking break. How obvious can u get? This is so pathetic its not even funny anymore.

I challenged you to show me clear on panel instances where it was indicated that juggernaut turned off his unstoppability enchantment. You have failed to do so entirely. Instead u want to rely on what was said by the writer in a casual discussion with the fans and totally ignore whats on panel.lmao. GTFO with such bullshit.

And the last part of ur post is the most idiotic. Do u think that by posting the fight uve somehow done ANYTHING to prove ur case? Juggernaut isnt holding on to the Hulk in a way that you push someone? lolwut?. You must be blind. We can clearly see hulks feets sliding back as he is being pushed as well juggernauts foot slantedina foward stepping position So ur saying the way that Hulk and juggernaut are holding each other somehow means that juggernaut couldnt have been pushing him even though there is a clear indication that there was? Absolutely inane. Moreover from close observation its clear that they arent actually involved a game of mercy (not that it matters even) as we see juggernaut hlding the hulks wrist and the hulk holding his fist in the last scan u posted. But to completely decimate this ridiculous notion of urs that they werent moving, on the page immediately after which u neglected to post, we see juggernaut lurch forward as soon as WWH moves out of the way which even moredefinitively proves that he was attempting to move forward.

This is clear to absolutely anyone who bothered to read the damn scans which from ur posts its clear u are not one of.

I suggest you go back to figuring out how you're going to feed your family for the week and stop getting into debates you're not qualified to get into.

............right. 😆. I didnt think it possible but this is even more pathetic than the quanchi comment.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Why are you Thorbags fixated on that one panel? Why don't you actually read the entire book? You might finally understand something.

Juggernaut was simply more focused in that story. He never did anything that classic Juggernaut didn't do, he's physically man-handled Thor on more than one occasion.

[B]"BAH! Like I care! Can't let you...Anyone stop me!"

The dreaded scan in question. Thor fans focus on the words of their beloved and completely ignore everything Juggernaut says. In response to what Thor says, Juggernaut replies:

"You got that right, goldilocks. Sumthin's makin' me that way...Sumthin's drawin' me somewhere and i'll march through anything or any man ta get there!"

"Fer the first time ever--I really feel like I can cut loose and crush even the likes O' you"

"Gotta...Keep MOVIN'! Gotta follow the call...An' nuthin's gonna stop me!"

I won't even get into him defeating Cyttorak in that story. Why Cyttorak would amp Juggernaut only to have his own avatar defeat him is ridiculous. The point of 8th day was so that the Octessence could determine who was greater by having their exemplars build armies and battle it out. Whoever was the last one standing wins. Amping Juggernaut so he could get some where had nothing to do with it.

Juggernaut was simply more focused, obsessed with getting some where. He has an amazing willpower. His power wasn't amped

If you still want to play this game I'll dig up an email from Kurt Busiek, the guy who write the 2 Eight Day Iron Man tie-ins and the 2 Avenger 9th Day books, where he says Juggernaut was not amped in any way during that story. [/B]

So spamming the forum with irrelevant scans that do nothing to help ur case is the new strategy u have adopted? LMAO.

This point isnt even disputable. No one is ignoring anything that juggernaut is saying..........aside you that is. Thor clearly mentions that juggernaut is more powerful than ever before and what juggernaut gives is an entirely unequivocal reply "you got that right goldilocks,something is making me that way, somethings drawing me somewhere". Juggernaut not only flat out admits to thor that he is more powerful than ever before but makes a clear statement claiming that something is making more powerful than ever before. Your own character just admitted to having a powerup. You CAN NEVER get around that regardless of how many irrelevant scans u post. Ur argument arises from a simple dislike of what is clearly portrayed on panel and is entirely baseless.

Infact whats funny is that if we even throw aside all reason and replace it with fanaticism as u are suggesting, and take it that juggernaut was lying to thor when he made that claim, then the showing still wouldnt be valid because juggernaut would NOT and has not been able to produce the same effects without such circumstances present. So regardless the showing is invalid here anyways.

Also as i have shown earlier in this thread, there is no proof that juggernaut is stronger than thor. Kurse as i have also proven is multiple times thors strength and so its obvious to anyone aside a mindless pyschophant like urself that Kurse is way stronger juggernaut. U ask for "proof" that Kurse is stronger and when it is provided (as it has been in this thread) u continuosly ignore and dodge it because u dont like it. Heck u even fallaciously attempted to invalidate the evidence........Hopefully though, u will dodge this post as well and spare us from any more of ur idiocy

thor #411 thor was sick so doesnt count. thor #429 i dont remember juggs overpowering thor at all when they first fought (could u provide scans) then thor removed his shield, stomped him, juggs shield came back and thor sent him into space with moljnir. and thor 17 was 8th day juggs, a stronger version. so when exactly did regular juggs over power regular thor? i suggest u make a credible argument next time u comment on someone elses knowledge.